Bachmann OO Spring 2022 Announcements inc. OO9

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said:

Looking at the pricing, I paid £68 for a blue/grey DBSO in February 2020, that was I think the permissible discounted price off an RRP of £77. Exactly two years later RRP is £150. That is a big move, even allowing for all the recent pressures.

 

I presume that wasn't DCC fitted? That's probably £25 of the £150.

 

I think with the DBSO they aren't expecting to sell millions of them and so are having to cover the tooling with a smaller run/more expensive RRP (a bit like what Revolution have done with Caroline).

 

1 hour ago, No Decorum said:

Now I just sigh and use the money for something which fills a more significant gap.

 

And so I fear that leads to smaller runs, reacting to smaller demand, which drives the price up further and exacerbates the issue.

 

The way the prices are at the moment I am only getting what I regard as "must haves", not "nice to haves".

[TomScrut]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

As always the best place to watch the market is at the bottom… if the s/h on ebay demand/prices rises with inflation its ok, if inflation rises but s/h prices stagnate or demand falls, or suddenly huge volumes appears into the marketplace…theres a problem, that will affect recycling of cash further up the food chain.

 

That is assuming people sell stuff to recycle cash, which I do with stuff I knew was either a stop gap or something that is no longer relevant to my layout. I don't know how many others do it. I see lots of posts on here and on FB of people having a lot of models stacked on shelves that probably don't do much. I think there were some on this thread yesterday about saying they had found stuff they had forgotten they bought it 

[The Stationmaster]

On 03/02/2022 at 20:04, TomScrut said:

 

I aren't sure that makes a lot of sense. Are you saying that people will spend more money on trains because they have less money?

In effect 'yes' - it's a known, fact believe it or not.   When money gets tighter discretionary spending tends to change and things like meals out and expensive holidays get replaced by things which can be done at home.  I knew one manufacturer - a long established and well known brand in the hobby - and every time there was some sort of recession or spending squeeze his company's sales increased.

 

Now it might not spread across the board but people tend to concentrate on things which they can do at home when money becomes tight so railway modelling in the broadest sense of a market area can (and in the past has) benefit.  Let's say you cancel your holiday which was going to cost a few thousand £s (and plenty of holidays do cost that much) - those unspent thousands will go partly on the  higher cost of living but some will remain for a bit of 'enjoyment' - which can mean new toys for him and something for er etc.

Edited February 5, 2022 by The Stationmaster
Typos sorted, I hope

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

TBH, on the Waterloo - Exeter route, towards the end of loco haulage, locos were begged, borrowed, and quite possibly stolen, just to keep (most of) the the service running.

 

That sort of "look" was pretty much typical of the blue 47/4s we did see which weren't easy to come by anyhow. The alternative was usually a no-heat jobbie from Tinsley or Thornaby that would very likely need new brake blocks by the time it reached Exeter....

 

Depots almost never released decent engines for loan/hire, so we generally got the Duffest of the Duffs. Examples from Stratford being notably honourable exceptions.

 

John   

I have to admit that on the occasion back, in the 1970s and lasting a day or so, I converted the entire loco hauled  passenger train service west of Salisbury to diesel hydraulic D10XX/Class52) haulage in order to actually keep trains running some of the traction I obtained for that purpose was definitely more a case of 'stolen' rather than 'borrowed'.   

[adb968008]

35 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

That is assuming people sell stuff to recycle cash, which I do with stuff I knew was either a stop gap or something that is no longer relevant to my layout. I don't know how many others do it. I see lots of posts on here and on FB of people having a lot of models stacked on shelves that probably don't do much. I think there were some on this thread yesterday about saying they had found stuff they had forgotten they bought it 

Which suggests rude health. 

People only sell for Need or Want.
 

If they dont need to sell, and dont want to sell, then everythings ok.

it only needs 1 of the two to change in reasonable volume to cause a market wobble..

 

people may not want to sell, but need to sell..  ie. bad economy.

or

people may want to sell, even if they dont need. Ie. had enough.

if people are happy to have them sit on shelves waiting for the day, then confidence is fine. One way to keep them in your garage is for manufacturers to maintain fear of missing out.. be it limited supply or raising prices, and this tactic is working fine, especially when so little is coming from China and so much variety is on offer…

 

Examples include dumping Bachmann 55’s and 66’s in response to new toolings, but we haven't seen a Lledo van or Triang model style abandonment resulting in them being binware for 2 decades.

 

it might feel like a ton of stuff arrived in January, but its been generally quiet over 2021 and 2022 doesn't look too much better… the bargains thread is a mere shadow of itself.. even if the little black 0-6-0s constantly litter our inboxes.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by adb968008

[MikeParkin65]

21 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

A lot of doom about the imminent end of the hobby, but stock levels seem to be in short supply, though admittedly many of Jan 2022’s new releases haven't disappeared into dust at the same speed as last years did.

 

As always the best place to watch the market is at the bottom… if the s/h on ebay demand/prices rises with inflation its ok, if inflation rises but s/h prices stagnate or demand falls, or suddenly huge volumes appears into the marketplace…theres a problem, that will affect recycling of cash further up the food chain.

 

 

 

 

My personal experience is that whilst the odd ebay bargain is still to be found (usually the misdescribed) the prices for most accurately described and well photographed listings are strong and getting stronger for anything from the last 10 years or so. This applies to loco's, loco's coaches and wagons

 

That said I have recently bought 2 of the last version V2  - the one with a new chassis but the old body from less than the cost of the one of the new version.

 

Doesnt apply to Class 47's though where prices for the previous version remain very firm indeed, even the very earliest are between £75  - 100

[ThaneofFife]

I wonder though if the stock levels being low is more an indication that numbers are limited rather than the masses sctually buying.

[rob D2]

I used to buy and sell a fair bit - if I suddenly favoured one of my three eras over another, off it went to eBay.

 

Sometimes I changed my mind ! I’ve had three 37035s in Dutch, I’ve had 2 RES47s and I wish I hadn’t sold my EWS 37114 !

 

Im much more careful and reluctant to do that now - these things hold their value quite well and if I want to replace them having changed my mind it’ll be 2x the cost originally .

[wombatofludham]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

People only sell for Need or Want.

I find eBay and dealing with some of the self entitled enthusiasts who have made some of my friend's sales on the site a living hell such a dis-incentive I only sold a loft full of stuff I had collected the past thirty years and no longer needed when certain box shifters introduced second hand buying remotely.  I suppose therefore my contribution to the second hand market was more an opportunity sale, as had there not been the opportunity to flog to a retailer, they'd still be cluttering up my loft.

Financially I didn't need to sell them, I just thought they would be better off in someone else's care who did want them.  That said the bunce raised did help to fund the Britannia Pacific Class 312 in WMPTE yellow I bought, so all in all worth doing.

[Compound2632]

33 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

Britannia Pacific Class 312 in WMPTE yellow I bought

 

You bought a yellow Brit? [Does not compute...]

[wombatofludham]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

You bought a yellow Brit? [Does not compute...]

I must admit when I first found Britannia Pacific (Models) I was somewhat amused at the name, given his speciality of custom building EMUs, of both stabiliser rail and coathanger versions.  No kettles, even the rather superb Riddles pacifics.

Here's my model having it's couple of minutes of fame on the Britannia test track

312204

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

I wonder though if the stock levels being low is more an indication that numbers are limited rather than the masses sctually buying.

Rightsizing…

 

Eitherway.. its a good thing

 

47 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

I must admit when I first found Britannia Pacific (Models) I was somewhat amused at the name, given his speciality of custom building EMUs, of both stabiliser rail and coathanger versions.  No kettles, even the rather superb Riddles pacifics.

Here's my model having it's couple of minutes of fame on the Britannia test track

312204

ive enviously looked at their range for a while.

 

I just know if I jump in, it’ll get very expensive very quick, and no doubt as soon as i’m done rtr models will suddenly start appearing from nowhere !!!

 

n gauge modern unit modelling seems to be going from strength to strength.. what are they doing that were not in oo, to be so lucky ?

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by adb968008

[Compound2632]

53 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

I must admit when I first found Britannia Pacific (Models) I was somewhat amused at the name, given his speciality of custom building EMUs, of both stabiliser rail and coathanger versions.  No kettles, even the rather superb Riddles pacifics.

Here's my model having it's couple of minutes of fame on the Britannia test track

312204

 

Ha! Now makes sense. I must say they're very confident there will be no derailments on the outside of their test track.

 

I have no recollection of that yellow/blue livery  - it can't have been applied to any Tyseley DMUs working the Cross-City line, though a number of those got the white-with-blue-stripe livery with WMPTE logo on the blue band. When was it current and how widely was it applied?

Edited February 4, 2022 by Compound2632

[wombatofludham]

Just now, adb968008 said:

I just know if I jump in, it’ll get very expensive very quick, and no doubt as soon as i’m done rtr models will suddenly start appearing from nowhere !!!

 

Between you me and anyone who hasn't seen me, roight?  I did once hear of a suggestion that Bachmann might be looking at a 310, about four years ago - and given they said that the 47 just launched had been in process for five years, there's still chance it might happen.  Hasn't stopped me from ordering a Britannia Pacific Class 310 for delivery in March 2023.  I figure that even if Bachmann have been secretly working on a 310 for the past four years and it comes to light in the next 12 months, I'll want multiple editions but if they don't, at least I'll have one in classic blue with my own choice of destinations and headcodes.  And with the annual price rise now a fixture, I suspect my BP model won't be that far off an RTR unit price wise before long.

[wombatofludham]

15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Ha! Now makes sense. I must say they're very confident there will be no derailments on the outside of their test track.

 

I have no recollection of that yellow/blue livery  - it can't have been applied to any Tyseley DMUs working the Cross-City line, though a number of those got the white-with-blue-stripe livery with WMPTE logo on the blue band. When was it current and how widely was it applied?

312204 was the only unit carrying the yellow/blue livery, between 1985 and 1988.  Four Class 312 units were built to add to the WMPTE pool, and nominally paid for by WMPTE through increased Section 20 payments to BR, in order to allow extra services to the then new Birmingham International, and to be fair BR did keep them primarily on WMPTE locals.  The yellow livery was dubbed an experiment, but it is unusual for a colour scheme experiment to be carried through to a full service unit, so it remains a bit of a mystery why it was done.  However, at the same time, WMPTE's bus fleet had a batch of Metrobuses delivered in various combinations of yellow and blue, and I've read these were trial liveries for the new "Timesaver" limited stop buses to be introduced on deregulation.  My speculation is that the idea of a yellow and blue livery for limited stop buses and the train fleet might have been planned to highlight faster services, with the familiar blue and cream being kept for the all shacks buses.  However, what is the fact is that James Isaacs, the then DG of WMPTE, hated the yellow and Timesaver buses ended up silver, whilst 312204 ended up as nobby no-mates unique as a Nederlands Spoorwegen tribute act.

Edited February 4, 2022 by wombatofludham
Fat finger typos

[andyman7]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Which suggests rude health. 

People only sell for Need or Want.
 

If they dont need to sell, and dont want to sell, then everythings ok.

it only needs 1 of the two to change in reasonable volume to cause a market wobble..

 

people may not want to sell, but need to sell..  ie. bad economy.

or

people may want to sell, even if they dont need. Ie. had enough.

if people are happy to have them sit on shelves waiting for the day, then confidence is fine. One way to keep them in your garage is for manufacturers to maintain fear of missing out.. be it limited supply or raising prices, and this tactic is working fine, especially when so little is coming from China and so much variety is on offer…

 

Examples include dumping Bachmann 55’s and 66’s in response to new toolings, but we haven't seen a Lledo van or Triang model style abandonment resulting in them being binware for 2 decades.

 

it might feel like a ton of stuff arrived in January, but its been generally quiet over 2021 and 2022 doesn't look too much better… the bargains thread is a mere shadow of itself.. even if the little black 0-6-0s constantly litter our inboxes.

 

When Bachmann first issued the Desiro, list price was just under £200, they were sold at around £150 for a bit and then 'sale' stock was offered to dealers and for a good while they could be had for under £100 in Silverlink ad London Midland liveries. The next issue was in SWT colours, list was £349/£369 weathered and everyone had a heart attack/moan (delete as applicable). They didn't shift straight away but didn't plunge in price either - the unweathered ones sold out before the weathered ones and for a while the latter could be picked up for £225-£250. Now that they are sold out a seller can get £400 plus for them.

Those that wanted one but held of for the £100 bargain bin have been disappointed. It's not just a one-off either. Those that wanted a Bachmann S stock underground set but baulked at £300 for a set now face paying twice that or going without. So for now, they days of mass stock dumping are behind us and it's hard to see the manufacturers looking to 'pile high and sell cheap' when smaller runs and exclusivity are protecting the value of their inventory.

[Graham108]

4 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Now that they are sold out a seller can get £400 plus for them.

Somebody thinks they can get a little bit more - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154825114202?hash=item240c4bc25a:g:1DcAAOSwl~ph-D8R

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

312204 was the only unit carrying the yellow/blue livery, between 1985 and 1988. 

 

That explains why it eluded me. I was at university by then and only passing through New Street at the beginning and end of term.

[andyman7]

Just now, Graham108 said:

Somebody thinks they can get a little bit more - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154825114202?hash=item240c4bc25a:g:1DcAAOSwl~ph-D8R

There's always chancers! The metric to look at is 'sold' listings....

[Legend]

7 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

When Bachmann first issued the Desiro, list price was just under £200, they were sold at around £150 for a bit and then 'sale' stock was offered to dealers and for a good while they could be had for under £100 in Silverlink ad London Midland liveries. The next issue was in SWT colours, list was £349/£369 weathered and everyone had a heart attack/moan (delete as applicable). They didn't shift straight away but didn't plunge in price either - the unweathered ones sold out before the weathered ones and for a while the latter could be picked up for £225-£250. Now that they are sold out a seller can get £400 plus for them.

Those that wanted one but held of for the £100 bargain bin have been disappointed. It's not just a one-off either. Those that wanted a Bachmann S stock underground set but baulked at £300 for a set now face paying twice that or going without. So for now, they days of mass stock dumping are behind us and it's hard to see the manufacturers looking to 'pile high and sell cheap' when smaller runs and exclusivity are protecting the value of their inventory.

 

Its the same with Turbostars .  Not just the Spotrail one , which I thought was too expensive at the time at £179 but Nat Express and First Scotrail versions . I saw them at the Kilmarnock exhibition (which is actually in Irvine!) for £200 last week 

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Its the same with Turbostars .  Not just the Spotrail one , which I thought was too expensive at the time at £179 but Nat Express and First Scotrail versions . I saw them at the Kilmarnock exhibition (which is actually in Irvine!) for £200 last week 

 

And XC voyagers. I'm sure they are going for about twice what the to could be bought for new "back in the day".

 

Virgin ones less so, I presume because they are no longer current livery and/or there were more releases.

[Global]

11 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I presume that wasn't DCC fitted? That's probably £25 of the £150.

 

I think with the DBSO they aren't expecting to sell millions of them and so are having to cover the tooling with a smaller run/more expensive RRP (a bit like what Revolution have done with Caroline).

 

 

And so I fear that leads to smaller runs, reacting to smaller demand, which drives the price up further and exacerbates the issue.

 

The way the prices are at the moment I am only getting what I regard as "must haves", not "nice to haves".

Did they release the DBSOs without DCC? I’m not saying they didn’t but just don’t recall seeing them available without!

[adb968008]

11 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I think there were some on this thread yesterday about saying they had found stuff they had forgotten they bought it 

It wasn't me that said it, but I've definitely done it.

 

i’m always finding stuff that time has forgot.

 

 

[adb968008]

49 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

And XC voyagers. I'm sure they are going for about twice what the to could be bought for new "back in the day".

 

Virgin ones less so, I presume because they are no longer current livery and/or there were more releases.

Is anyone making an Avanti overlay transfer set ?

 

i see quite regularly AWC voyagers, they are basically a virgin covered up…

 

 (Not my image/ flickr url).

[ruggedpeak]

21 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I presume that wasn't DCC fitted? That's probably £25 of the £150.

 

10 hours ago, Global said:

Did they release the DBSOs without DCC? I’m not saying they didn’t but just don’t recall seeing them available without!

Correct. Bachmann DBSO's have been DCC and interior lighting fitted from the start at the ~£78 rrp.