RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 28, 2022 That’s looking great Andy @rapidoandythanks for sharing. I’m sure your comment “A number of things to sort but we are very pleased with this!“ includes those items referred to above…. Although I’m sure I’ve seen images of wonky handrails! This is going to look great with a rake of opens / vans being hauled by a Rapido 57xx 0-6-0PT 😎😎 lol 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinW Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 On Rapido's stand at Tonbridge MRC open day today Colin 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Neal Ball said: That’s looking great Andy @rapidoandythanks for sharing. I’m sure your comment “A number of things to sort but we are very pleased with this!“ includes those items referred to above…. Although I’m sure I’ve seen images of wonky handrails! This is going to look great with a rake of opens / vans being hauled by a Rapido 57xx 0-6-0PT 😎😎 lol Please, Andy, not a 57xx; a 2821 or 1854 pannier would go straight to the top of my shopping list and you could tool bodies for the saddle tank versions as well. If it must be a 57xx, can we have one without a top feed? And can I second Neal’s request for a GW open that survived into BR days and that is not a china clay wagon! AA20 is looking good so far, impressive interior! Edited May 28, 2022 by The Johnster 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Neal Ball said: Although I’m sure I’ve seen images of wonky handrails! Well that was my initial reaction. However, looking at my photos, including some very late ones that Rapido are using as examples, they do seem to have had very neat handrails. The GWR used good materials and this appears to be the case with handrails. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrakevan This 45 year old example that Rapido are modelling shows this well https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrakevan/e2d60c88b And this type of open wagon might be useful - very noticeably different to similar wagons from other Companies because of the 1/2 plank to give them the height they wanted https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwropenmerchandiseowv/e384d6a7 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwropenmerchandiseowv/e1983137b Paul Edited May 28, 2022 by hmrspaul 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 I am trying to form an opinion on whether the GWR had a standard end on which wagon solebar plates were placed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 28, 2022 50 minutes ago, hmrspaul said: Well that was my initial reaction. However, looking at my photos, including some very late ones that Rapido are using as examples, they do seem to have had very neat handrails. The GWR used good materials and this appears to be the case with handrails. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrakevan This 45 year old example that Rapido are modelling shows this well https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrakevan/e2d60c88b And this type of open wagon might be useful - very noticeably different to similar wagons from other Companies because of the 1/2 plank to give them the height they wanted https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwropenmerchandiseowv/e384d6a7 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwropenmerchandiseowv/e1983137b Paul There are some very interesting photos there Paul and not a wonky handrail in sight. A couple of slight kinks but nothing untoward at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 28, 2022 2 hours ago, The Johnster said: Please, Andy, not a 57xx; a 2821 or 1854 pannier would go straight to the top of my shopping list and you could tool bodies for the saddle tank versions as well. If it must be a 57xx, can we have one without a top feed? And can I second Neal’s request for a GW open that survived into BR days and that is not a china clay wagon! AA20 is looking good so far, impressive interior! HaHa! Definitely no topfeed and no it doesn't have to be a 57xx; it could be 2721 or those you've suggested. I think everyone (including Andy) its aware of my comments about a new Pannier tank 0-6-0PT. Plus of course, definitely loads more GW opens :-) Thanks. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2022 The last two halfcabs at Tondu were 2761, wd 31/3/50 and photographed on the recep. Roads at Swindon later that year in unlined 1942-5 black/‘grotesque’ Caerphilly Works lettering (I’ve worked up a Hornby to represent this engine, using a Baccy 57xx chassis, close but no apple, splashers in the wrong place and incorrect coupling rods), and 1870, which lasted until 31/10/50. I have no idea what this loco looked like in it’s last years, but I doubt it was other than in a late GW livery. I would love an RTR of either type to current standards, and would buy one of each of they were available. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, The Johnster said: and 1870, which lasted until 31/10/50. I have no idea what this loco looked like in it’s last years, but I doubt it was other than in a late GW livery. Standard Collett (RCTS type 92) bunker. B4 unsuperheated boiler, late Collett smokebox. Collett parallel buffers. At Swindon yard. Undated, but I think still operational judging by the healthy bunkerful of coal. Impossible to distinguish whether it is in black or green. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2022 Good grief, Ms P, you've come up trumpintons! There she is, the very engine, presumably after withdrawal from TDU since the location is Swindon, but clearly in operational condition, and with a boiler and tanks full of water if the slightly lower than the neighbours' buffers is an indication, or it could be just badly worn springs. Stacks of vital info in that photo; 1942-8 G W R initials but as you say not really possible to distinguish colour. Tyres down to minimum, so this is almost certainly 1950, loco has a shedcode plate but no indication of ever having had a smokebox number plate; impossible to see if the buffer beam numbers have survived. The initials have been cleaned, albeit not recently... I'd take a punt on black, as more likely for an engine this long in the tooth and low down the food chain, but, that said, there could be a difference in colour between the chimney and the dome. Black is a more solid bet IMHO, though. Coupling rods are another area difficult to be certain about, but I have convinced myself that there is no detectable fish belly to them, and they are probably plain straight, but could be fluted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 28, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Miss Prism said: Standard Collett (RCTS type 92) bunker. B4 unsuperheated boiler, late Collett smokebox. Collett parallel buffers. At Swindon yard. Undated, but I think still operational judging by the healthy bunkerful of coal. Impossible to distinguish whether it is in black or green. Lovely photo @Miss Prism you have a veritable collection thank you. 40 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Good grief, Ms P, you've come up trumpintons! There she is, the very engine, presumably after withdrawal from TDU since the location is Swindon, but clearly in operational condition, and with a boiler and tanks full of water if the slightly lower than the neighbours' buffers is an indication, or it could be just badly worn springs. Stacks of vital info in that photo; 1942-8 G W R initials but as you say not really possible to distinguish colour. Tyres down to minimum, so this is almost certainly 1950, loco has a shedcode plate but no indication of ever having had a smokebox number plate; impossible to see if the buffer beam numbers have survived. The initials have been cleaned, albeit not recently... I'd take a punt on black, as more likely for an engine this long in the tooth and low down the food chain, but, that said, there could be a difference in colour between the chimney and the dome. Black is a more solid bet IMHO, though. Coupling rods are another area difficult to be certain about, but I have convinced myself that there is no detectable fish belly to them, and they are probably plain straight, but could be fluted. All good guesses and I presume we will never know for sure…. But it clearly will make a nice model Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 The rods are standard fishbelly. I've never seen an 1854 class loco with anything else. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 28, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2022 That makes life easier if I use a 57xx Baccychassis under my Wills 1854 body; tx again, Ms P! In fact it may be an idea to retire 2761 for now and use the chassis under the Wills body as 1870, and keep fingers, legs, and anything else loose enough to cross crossed for a new RTR of one of the classes! The Wills body should sit properly on the Baccychassis, with the splashers aligning with the wheels, but a good bit of the whitemetal 'skirt' beneath the boiler may have to be hacked away. Other projects in the queue ahead of this, so a good bit of time for somebody (and we are looking at you, Rapido) to bring out an RTR version which will put all previous bets off... I definitely owe you a beer or 3 if we run into each other at a show or something! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stannard Posted May 28, 2022 Share Posted May 28, 2022 I agree with a number of people here with either the 1854 Class or 2721 Class as potential models, I would love a Pannier Tank version of either of these and there could be the opportunity of making Saddle Tank versions of them as well at some point that would fill a spot in the pre grouping locomotive market. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted May 29, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2022 14 hours ago, Miss Prism said: Standard Collett (RCTS type 92) bunker. B4 unsuperheated boiler, late Collett smokebox. Collett parallel buffers. At Swindon yard. Undated, but I think still operational judging by the healthy bunkerful of coal. Impossible to distinguish whether it is in black or green. It looks to be painted in universal Grime colour judging by how the initials have been cleaned off (The R seems to have been worn away too). Not sure you could tell even if stood next to it! Does the LMS open give any clues to date, I'm not sure how long it took to add the M prefixes after nationalisation, this one doesn't look to have it yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 29, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2022 19 hours ago, Neal Ball said: HaHa! Definitely no topfeed and no it doesn't have to be a 57xx; it could be 2721 or those you've suggested. I think everyone (including Andy) its aware of my comments about a new Pannier tank 0-6-0PT. Plus of course, definitely loads more GW opens :-) Thanks. The sensible one for Rapido to go for would be the 2021 - long life, back-dateable to saddle tank (depending on how it is designed), quite widespread and lots of them, and its fits the sort of era they seem keen on. The 2721 on its own would, I reckon, be something of a dead end and not really exploitable at sensible tooling costs for a long life in the market place. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted May 29, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said: The sensible one for Rapido to go for would be the 2021 - long life, back-dateable to saddle tank (depending on how it is designed), quite widespread and lots of them, and its fits the sort of era they seem keen on. The 2721 on its own would, I reckon, be something of a dead end and not really exploitable at sensible tooling costs for a long life in the market place. Thanks for this Mike. I reckon if we keep talking about it long enough, it’s only a matter of time before @rapidoandy announces one. 😎 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stannard Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said: The sensible one for Rapido to go for would be the 2021 - long life, back-dateable to saddle tank (depending on how it is designed), quite widespread and lots of them, and its fits the sort of era they seem keen on. The 2721 on its own would, I reckon, be something of a dead end and not really exploitable at sensible tooling costs for a long life in the market place. Either way I see a general consenus for one of the latter Armstrong or Dean 0-6-0's, they would be great subjects to model given the longevity of the classes as well the modifications made to them over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 12, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 12, 2022 I’d be pleased to see a 2021 but would not be buying one for Cwmdimbath; there weren’t any in mu period. A 2721 or 1854 would be straight to the top of the shopping list, however. Stationmaster Mike makes some good points regarding these classes though, and knows a lot more than I do about the issues surrounding making and selling little electric trains, so the best I can do is hope he’s off target on this one, probably rather forlornly. 2021s saw a lot of use on branch lines, and a very large number of us either model these or incorporate them on larger layouts, a good bet especially for pre-1930 layouts. Some of them were auto fitted before the advent of newly built auto engines. For similar reasons Metros and 517s most be pretty low-hanging fruit by current standards. If I can’t have a 2721 or 1854, I’ll struggle on with my Wills 1854, and hope instead for an 850. One of these survived into the 50s under NCB ownership in the Ogmore Valley in rather battered condition, close enough to trigger Rule 1 IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 13, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 13, 2022 (edited) A big advantage of the 2021s is that the outlasted both the 2721s (a small class anyway) and 1854s - both of which only just about scraped into the BR ownership. On the other hand some 2021s survived until the mid 1950s - 5 years after the last 2721 had gone. The 2021 also has the additional value of being a Wolverhampton class although detail. changes over the years undoubtedly removed most traces of their design origin. The 850s have the potential sales disadvantage of only a few surviving into BR ownership and all had gone by the end of 1951. But additionally the class was really heavily hit and reduced in numbers by the introduction of the new 'smaller' (54XX etc) panniers pre-war although it had the unique advantage of having two survive in saddle tank form into BR ownership with the last of those, 1925, not being withdrawn until 1951. Finally of course some of the mechanical design for a 2021 is already in Rapido's hands as it has the same coupled wheelbase as a 16XX although the chassis would, I think, definitely need a bit of re-work in other areas to get away from certain visual compromises which come with their 16XX. Edited June 13, 2022 by The Stationmaster Correct typos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted June 15, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2022 Exactly. My constant banging on about 2721s and 1854s is because there were examples of both at Tondu during my time period, the 1854s lasting a little longer but the last of both going in 1950. Neither is an absolute essential for the layout, as they were getting a bit long in the tooth by then and were probably rarely seen beyond the immmediate confines of Tondu's yards and sidings. By my period (ostensibly 1948-58) there were plenty of 57xx/8750s, and in 1949 they were still being delivered new to the shed as new builds. So, if it comes to justifying locos, I should really be going for more 57xx and 8750s, but I do like to biodiversify. I'd like any new RTR 57xx or 8750 to be tooled without topfeed in the interests of biodiversity. An NCB 850 is really pushing the Rule 1 envelope, already under strain with a 3MT tank borrowed from Barry and Collett 31xx & a 44xx on the way. There is a photo of 1923 of this class at Penllwyngwent Colliery, Ogmore Vale, dated 1956, in the John Hodge/Stuart Davies 'Tondu Valleys' books in a beautifully modellable filthy and decrepit state, half her handrails missing, dents in the tanks, severe neglect livery, and with a tarp over the 57xx style cab roof, according to the caption 'standing in' for the regular Hudswell Clarke Antonia, which is suggestive enough of a spare loco moving around different collieries in the area for me to evoke Rule 1 if anyone were to have a go at an RTR, but probably not enough to bother with a kit... The bottom line is, of course, that a pannier never offends! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenL Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 On 03/03/2022 at 21:17, BenL said: Thanks for the updated artwork @rapidoandy. Do you have the artwork for the other side of the post-36 ‘small lettered’ GW versions? I ask as both Bachmann and Hornby have in their attempts at this livery got the markings in the wrong panels, which put me off purchasing them - I’m confident your diligent research will mean you get this right on your versions. On 03/03/2022 at 21:53, BenL said: Thanks Andy. Just from a quick online search, here are a couple of shots: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh2497.htm https://www.nrmfriends.org.uk/post/riding-a-toad The GW branding and number are in the second panel from the left, and the tonnage in the panel to the immediate left of the door. This is the positioning in photos I found when I looked into this a while back when re-branding some Bachmann GW brake vans but I will check my books again when I get a chance and highlight any useful pics I can find. In contrast, Bachmann and Hornby have gone for the GW and number in the first panel from the left and the tonnage in the second panel to the left of the door: https://www.hattons.co.uk/530988/bachmann_branchline_33_300h_20_ton_toad_brake_van_in_gwr_dark_grey/stockdetail https://www.hattons.co.uk/513920/hornby_r6940_gwr_aa15_toad_20_ton_brake_van_68611_in_gwr_grey/stockdetail I probably shouldn’t say this is definitely ‘wrong’ but I haven’t managed to find a prototype photo showing these positionings. Hello @rapidoandy, I see the pre-order deadline for these is coming up in September so wondering if you have any updates re my query above? All the best, Ben 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Corbs Posted July 15, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2022 3 hours ago, BenL said: Hello @rapidoandy, I see the pre-order deadline for these is coming up in September so wondering if you have any updates re my query above? All the best, Ben Hi Ben The GW liveries (small and large lettering) and and the BR (W) grey ones (inc. Titfield) are as you describe (number on the left, weight on the right) in the panels shown. The WSR example W114751 is an exception as it has the number at the verandah end on both sides. Likewise DW17247 (Slough Engineers) has the number and weight on the 2nd panel from the non-verandah end both sides (I have not seen anything to contradict this yet). https://www.flickr.com/photos/95430950@N07/49897564266 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, Corbs said: Likewise DW17247 (Slough Engineers) has the number and weight on the 2nd panel from the non-verandah end both sides (I have not seen anything to contradict this yet). https://www.flickr.com/photos/95430950@N07/49897564266 Photos of both sides of DW17247 from begining of the 80s https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrakevan/e1a488310 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/gwrbrakevan/e473e708 Paul Edited July 16, 2022 by hmrspaul Update the links to the high resolution scans posted 16 July Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now