Dia. AA20 'Toad' Brake Van

[MidlandRed]

Thanks @hmrspaul Let’s hope Rapido shift the offending lettered panels around to correct an otherwise very impressive model! 

Edited July 25, 2022 by MidlandRed

[cctransuk]

On 17/07/2022 at 00:51, Corbs said:

I need to caveat that I am a freelance contractor ...

 

I would be interested to know what sort of a CV one requires, and how one goes about applying for such a position.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

[hmrspaul]

5 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I would be interested to know what sort of a CV one requires, and how one goes about applying for such a position.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

An interesting question.

 

Down the years I've been asked questions by several designers from different manufacturers. I cannot answer every question, there are odd bits of writing used by BR that I don't understand. But now there is so much interest in considerable detail - and the ability to reproduce it - items such as correcting the C&W 3 & 4 figure numbers used on maintenance panels has come up several times - they are not random, but there are hundreds of them. And of course BR were very inconsistent in what they did which means that just trying to copy as exactly as possible an individual appearance is the easiest for these designers. I'll admit I have been surprised how too closely some of the newcomer manufacturer's have followed the appearance of a wagon at a particular moment in time. 

 

I do understand Corbs problem, he has been asked to copy one Heritage railways 'take' on the BR livery and it is not his job to alter this. What is difficult to understand is that why this was chosen when so many Toads are to be found on Heritage railways, but I don't know whether many are the correct design, nor how they look. I do know the Toads are a nightmare when it comes to detail (like the BR (non) Standard brake van. I only ever go to a Heritage railway when the family want me to go.

 

Paul

 

 

[Corbs]

19 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

I would be interested to know what sort of a CV one requires, and how one goes about applying for such a position.

 

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

No CV, just some incriminating photographs.

[rapidoandy]

Evening all,

 

Well there is quite a simple reason for copying the as preserved van - the owner helped us with the model and it was only fair that we produced their van.

 

Also statistically the preserved vehicles often outsell the ‘heritage’ ones. - even if they are not quite right.

 

However, after some consideration we will make the van fit for service life rather than preserved life. 
 

Andy

[MidlandRed]

2 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

Evening all,

 

Well there is quite a simple reason for copying the as preserved van - the owner helped us with the model and it was only fair that we produced their van.

 

Also statistically the preserved vehicles often outsell the ‘heritage’ ones. - even if they are not quite right.

 

However, after some consideration we will make the van fit for service life rather than preserved life. 
 

Andy

Thanks for that - very helpful 😀

[RightOnTrack]

8 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

Evening all,

 

Well there is quite a simple reason for copying the as preserved van - the owner helped us with the model and it was only fair that we produced their van.

 

Also statistically the preserved vehicles often outsell the ‘heritage’ ones. - even if they are not quite right.

 

However, after some consideration we will make the van fit for service life rather than preserved life. 
 

Andy

Thank you for the update, I guess you can’t win as I really liked that it was being produced as it is now. 

[Michael Hodgson]

10 hours ago, rapidoandy said:

However, after some consideration we will make the van fit for service life rather than preserved life. 

 

Andy

 

I rather think it will still sell just as well either way in the preserved railway's souvenir shops.

[Corbs]

Updated artwork of Worcester van W114751 now in BR(W) condition.

As noted before, one side still closely matches the preserved vehicle.

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

I'm a bit surprised the WSR didn't brand their Toad as Taunton RU, or even Minehead RU....

 

The Pen Mill one for me!

 

John

Edited August 6, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Corbs]

A question mainly for @Miss Prism but open to all. My suspicion is that all Toads should have white roof interiors. Would you agree or are there any outliers?

Certainly the GWR ones have photo evidence of such, the WSR one has it, Titfield one does too. Yellow vans I am not sure as the only glimpse I can see is in shadow.

 

Just want to check this before it gets sent to the factory. 

[Miss Prism]

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/163579-titfield-thunderbolt-70th-anniversary-range/?do=findComment&comment=4903535

 

As I said there, I am not sure whether Toad roof underside colour was specified in GWR painting. White makes a lot of sense, given the topside was white in earlier times. In anycase, it's the sort of thing film-makers did to improve light reflectivity.

 

[Corbs]

19 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/163579-titfield-thunderbolt-70th-anniversary-range/?do=findComment&comment=4903535

 

As I said there, I am not sure whether Toad roof underside colour was specified in GWR painting. White makes a lot of sense, given the topside was white in earlier times. In anycase, it's the sort of thing film-makers did to improve light reflectivity.

 

Thank you. I think white is a pretty safe bet even on the yellow one.

[Neal Ball]

2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/163579-titfield-thunderbolt-70th-anniversary-range/?do=findComment&comment=4903535

 

As I said there, I am not sure whether Toad roof underside colour was specified in GWR painting. White makes a lot of sense, given the topside was white in earlier times. In anycase, it's the sort of thing film-makers did to improve light reflectivity.

 

 

1 hour ago, Corbs said:

Thank you. I think white is a pretty safe bet even on the yellow one.

Would it weather at the same rate as the top of the roof? Quickly going to grey…. I suspect it might be slower, but have no evidence for that.

[TT-Pete]

6 hours ago, Corbs said:

Thank you. I think white is a pretty safe bet even on the yellow one.

 

Didn't they have coal-fired stoves, and with quite a few roll-ups probably being consumed in there over the years I don't think they'd stay white for long. :^)

 

 

[Corbs]

17 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Would it weather at the same rate as the top of the roof? Quickly going to grey…. I suspect it might be slower, but have no evidence for that.

I’m not sure, it wouldn’t be exposed to the same amount of falling smuts and muck (certainly not the bit inside). 
But if it was painted white then since the models are not factory-weathered it should be white.

[Dunsignalling]

14 minutes ago, Corbs said:

I’m not sure, it wouldn’t be exposed to the same amount of falling smuts and muck (certainly not the bit inside). 
But if it was painted white then since the models are not factory-weathered it should be white.

And the bit over the veranda wouldn't be subject to staining from the stove and fags, either. Any tobacco smoke generated outside wouldn't have hung around, especially when the van was moving!

 

Mind you, pure white always looks a bit "glarey" on models, so it might be good to knock it back a little. 

 

John

Edited August 20, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Would it weather at the same rate as the top of the roof? Quickly going to grey…. I suspect it might be slower, but have no evidence for that.

A lot depended on who used it, who cleaned it (or didn't clean it in WWII years onwards), how smoky the stive got, and whether or not it was regularly used by Guards who smoked (and no doubt many did in past years).   So in other words if started out white (probably the case?) it certainly wouldn't have stayed white for long .

 

Slightly OT but I always thought the ceilings in my regular local poub were painted a sort of darkish cream colour.  But when the brewery's painters arrived the first thing they did was rigorously clean the ceilings in the bar area, then put on undercoat followed by a new coat of white gloss. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by The Stationmaster

[tomparryharry]

Van roof interior was normally painted in whitewash, or emulsion. They didn't last white for very long, being in direct competition with Capstan Full-strength, Golden Virginia, and whatever rubbish was being burnt on the stove. 

 

Seems like Mike has beaten me to it....

Edited August 20, 2022 by tomparryharry

[The Johnster]

And stove-coal dust.  The vans were regularly swept, but I doubt the underside of the roof ever got much attention.   The ‘coal bunker’ area in the stove corner would be pretty mucky as well. 
 

I would hazard a guess that the BR interior livery was green to waist height and cream above that, including the roof interior.  Brown benches and furniture, and probably dark brown or dark green leather seat pads. 

[Miss Prism]

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2GFTNM6/the-interior-of-a-1930s-great-western-railway-guards-brake-van-known-as-a-toad-at-didcot-railway-centre-oxfordshire-2GFTNM6.jpg

 

[Corbs]

58 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2GFTNM6/the-interior-of-a-1930s-great-western-railway-guards-brake-van-known-as-a-toad-at-didcot-railway-centre-oxfordshire-2GFTNM6.jpg

 

That matches what we have at the BHR.
Roof looks yellowish here but it is white IRL.

 

I've not yet found a reference photo of a BR grey one inside. @The Johnster do you have a steer on the shade of green?

 

[The Johnster]

If it’s the same as survived on some BR standard and LMS vans in the early 70s, it was a dark green of the sort you found on the lower parts of walls in hospitals and Government buildings at one time.  Replaced in brakevan interiors by grey, I think from 1966, same grey as in passenger brake compartments and NPCCS in post ‘66 ‘corporate’ liveries.  

Edited August 21, 2022 by The Johnster

[Neal Ball]

Definitely not a green interior on a GWR van.

[Corbs]

8 hours ago, The Johnster said:

If it’s the same as survived on some BR standard and LMS vans in the early 70s, it was a dark green of the sort you found on the lower parts of walls in hospitals and Government buildings at one time.  Replaced in brakevan interiors by grey, I think from 1966, same grey as in passenger brake compartments and NPCCS in post ‘66 ‘corporate’ liveries.  

In the current range I think the grey would only work for the yellow and SLOUGH vans in that case, but there is a chance the SLOUGH one was just in GW livery inside and out.