Dia. AA20 'Toad' Brake Van

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Definitely not a green interior on a GWR van.

Yes, but what was the BR livery for GW brake van interiors 1948-66?  I’ve suggested green lower/cream upper/ cream roof interior as that was the livery used on other brake vans until 1966, after which the interiors were all-over grey; of course there were no GW vans in revenue service by that time. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by The Johnster

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Corbs said:

In the current range I think the grey would only work for the yellow and SLOUGH vans in that case, but there is a chance the SLOUGH one was just in GW livery inside and out.

Except - (possibly) for departmental vehicles - why would the interior of grey livery vans be any different in colour from brown livery vans?  Piped vans were painted the same inside as fitted vans so why would an unfitted van which wasn't piped be any different from one which was piped?  

 

I doubt that WR shops changed anything interior colour wise unless they was a new spec issued - why should they?  The interior brown paint was exactly that - brown (assuming it was the same as that used on the Standard brakevans) and it wasn't GWR coaching stock brown but a lighter shade by the 1960s.  And when brown wasn't used (in Standard vans) my memory - going back a very long way - recalls black being used on some of the vans I rode in c1966/67 but again only half heiight and cream for the upper half.  Seat padding definitely a dark green colour.

[Corbs]

Ok well it seems the only safe bet so far then is choc/cream/off-white (in ascending order)?

 

Will see if we can swap the pure white for an off/warm white on the roof interior.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Corbs

[57xx]

I would think if it was the same white as used for roofs, you could check the Phoenix site for an idea of what Lead White should look like.

[Graham_Muz]

On 22/08/2022 at 10:11, Corbs said:

Ok well it seems the only safe bet so far then is choc/cream/off-white (in ascending order)?

 

Will see if we can swap the pure white for an off/warm white on the roof interior.

I would suggest RAL9002 

[Not Jeremy]

Sounds like a pot of the good old magnolia to me!!!!

 

[Corbs]

16 hours ago, 57xx said:

I would think if it was the same white as used for roofs, you could check the Phoenix site for an idea of what Lead White should look like.

 

16 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

I would suggest RAL9002 

 

Excellent, thanks both. Similar white to the coach roofs sounds a good bet.

 

15 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

Sounds like a pot of the good old magnolia to me!!!!

 

 

Is the landlord trying to tart it up for new tenants?!

[gwrrob]

A bump for this thread to ask @rapidoandyif the side lamp irons will be able to take a Modelu lamp or will they be moulded to the body like the other manufacturers versions.

[Skinnylinny]

I can confirm the side lamp irons aren't moulded to the body, they're separately-fitted parts. However, I don't know off-hand what dimensions of lamp iron Modelu lamps are manufacturer to accept, so I can't guarantee that they'll fit over the iron I'm afraid!

Linny
CAD engineer, Rapido Trains UK

Edited November 4, 2022 by Skinnylinny

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

I can confirm the side lamp irons aren't moulded to the body, they're separately-fitted parts. However, I don't know off-hand what dimensions of lamp iron Modelu lamps are manufacturer to accept, so I can't guarantee that they'll fit over the iron I'm afraid!

Linny
CAD engineer, Rapido Trains UK

Ah, great fun because now we can look for correct sidelights to go with the right headlamps and  other little touches. - luvverly.

[gwrrob]

48 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Ah, great fun because now we can look for correct sidelights to go with the right headlamps and  other little touches. - luvverly.

 

These are what I had in mind Mike https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/2077/

[hmrspaul]

On 21/08/2022 at 10:31, The Johnster said:

Yes, but what was the BR livery for GW brake van interiors 1948-66?  I’ve suggested green lower/cream upper/ cream roof interior as that was the livery used on other brake vans until 1966, after which the interiors were all-over grey; of course there were no GW vans in revenue service by that time. 

BR Brake van colours were freight stock red (modellers call it bauxite) upto 3ft 6in and white above, including roof. 

We have been through all this before. GW vans would not have been singled out for some special treatment. 

 

Later they were white all over. 

 

Paul

[The Johnster]

Modelu lamps fit perfectly on current Bachmann ex-GW loco brackets, if that’s any help. 

[The Stationmaster]

23 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

These are what I had in mind Mike https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/2077/

Very nice - and to be painted black of course.  Don't forget in normal double line running situations they showed white towards the front and red towards the rear.

[Harlequin]

23 hours ago, gwrrob said:

 

These are what I had in mind Mike https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/2077/

 

34 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Very nice - and to be painted black of course.  Don't forget in normal double line running situations they showed white towards the front and red towards the rear.

 

Like this on an Oxford Toad:

(There are white lenses facing forwards, honest!)

 

The brackets are separate parts here too and small enough to accept the Modelu side lamps but the offset from the body doesn't allow them to sit nicely. That's not a fault of the model - it's more to do with the Modelu lamps because the hole in the Modelu is, of course, not in the correct prototypical position and it has to be where it is to have sufficient material around it.

 

To get them to sit nicely without making oversize brackets (please don't make oversize brackets Rapido!) it's probably best to carve out the side of the lamp and hold it on the bracket with a bit of black tack.

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Harlequin

[Neal Ball]

On 05/11/2022 at 12:49, gwrrob said:

 

These are what I had in mind Mike https://www.modelu3d.co.uk/product/2077/

I see someone has given them a very positive review on the Modelu website! 😎

[gwrrob]

11 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

I see someone has given them a very positive review on the Modelu website! 😎

 

There are no secrets on the internet Neal.

[AY Mod]

Toad samples on show at Warley.

 

[tomparryharry]

They look very nice. 

 

Just an observation, however. The solebar works plates are on the correct sides/ends?

 

Those AA20's are a hop, skip & jump to the AA21. Just  needs addition of vacuum gear. So far, so good. 

[gwrrob]

Currently in production.

 

[RapidoCorbs]

On 07/12/2022 at 17:44, tomparryharry said:

Just an observation, however. The solebar works plates are on the correct sides/ends?

 

Some of the early EPs had been made incorrectly with a mirrored solebar on one side - this was since corrected and the works plates should both be at the verandah end.

[Captain Kernow]

Hi Corbs - will this Toad be as easy to convert to EM or P4 as some other Rapido wagons, please?

 

Many thanks.

 

[RapidoCorbs]

7 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

Hi Corbs - will this Toad be as easy to convert to EM or P4 as some other Rapido wagons, please?

 

Many thanks.

 

 

I am not in the office until next week to check for certain, but looking at the development CAD it is very much like the SECR open wagons - the axle ends sit in bearing cups, there is a similar clearance between the wheel and the axlebox.

 

Here is a screengrab from one of the early Toad EPs (so please don't take this as 100% final) to show the wheel/axle setup.

[gwrrob]

Anyone know of a photo of the one used at Tavistock No. 17258 as ascertain whether it received the Junc. branding  when first allocated. Looking at possibly rebranding 17295 using the Railtec custom products.

[Suzy Sulzer]

On display on the Rapido stand 19/3/23.