EM Gauge Conversions

[Enterprisingwestern]

Can we stop resurrecting the age old gauge wars arguments, that alone will put the OP off finescale modelling altogether, and before you jump in with both feet, I did not start it, I was going on my own experience.

 

Mike.

[Jol Wilkinson]

9 hours ago, kevinlms said:

So why would 'a large layout be easier to produce', if you 'can't agree the P4 is far more difficult'?

 

Those are conflicting statements. Fact is P4 DOES require more effort (even if not much) and that is why it takes longer to build a big layout, along with the stock required.

Yes. P4 requires more effort - largely attention to detail and accuracy - but I don't agree that it is far more difficult compared to building you own stock and track in OO or EM. Comparison with RTR stock and Peco track is a different matter.

 

23 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

Can we stop resurrecting the age old gauge wars arguments, that alone will put the OP off finescale modelling altogether, and before you jump in with both feet, I did not start it, I was going on my own experience.

 

Mike.

 

Mike, having modelled P4 pre-grouping for evet thirty years I have found that "gauge wars" are invariably started by people who don't model P4. I don't care to what standards anybody models. I do care when someones activities are derided by those that, unlike you, don't/won't accept others may want to go down a different track - and that is based on my experience.

[sulzer71]

Guys , I didn't come here to start a Gauge war , I was just seeking a little advice as I'd like to make my models a bit more realistic than simple OO gauge , I am still quite new to railway modelling so I have a very limited skillset as it is , as it stands I don't even have baseboards down any more as that's another area I decided I must do better , the layout is most likely to be an L shaped end to end so not massive amounts of track laying to be done but I'm also contemplating making it modular & portable should I wish to try get it on the exhibition circuit so therefore needs to be reliable , I have made the decision now to go with EM

[kevinlms]

9 minutes ago, sulzer71 said:

Guys , I didn't come here to start a Gauge war , I was just seeking a little advice as I'd like to make my models a bit more realistic than simple OO gauge , I am still quite new to railway modelling so I have a very limited skillset as it is , as it stands I don't even have baseboards down any more as that's another area I decided I must do better , the layout is most likely to be an L shaped end to end so not massive amounts of track laying to be done but I'm also contemplating making it modular & portable should I wish to try get it on the exhibition circuit so therefore needs to be reliable , I have made the decision now to go with EM

EM is an excellent choice IMO.

[kevinlms]

On 07/03/2022 at 20:01, Jol Wilkinson said:

Yes. P4 requires more effort - largely attention to detail and accuracy - but I don't agree that it is far more difficult compared to building you own stock and track in OO or EM. Comparison with RTR stock and Peco track is a different matter.

 

 

Mike, having modelled P4 pre-grouping for evet thirty years I have found that "gauge wars" are invariably started by people who don't model P4. I don't care to what standards anybody models. I do care when someones activities are derided by those that, unlike you, don't/won't accept others may want to go down a different track - and that is based on my experience.

I was going to reply to your post, based on the point that I wasn't the one that first raised the 'far more difficult' argument, but it's futile, since you are convinced that it's non P4 modellers, that create 'gauge wars'.

 

Says it all really.

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, sulzer71 said:

Guys , I didn't come here to start a Gauge war , I was just seeking a little advice as I'd like to make my models a bit more realistic than simple OO gauge , I am still quite new to railway modelling so I have a very limited skillset as it is , as it stands I don't even have baseboards down any more as that's another area I decided I must do better , the layout is most likely to be an L shaped end to end so not massive amounts of track laying to be done but I'm also contemplating making it modular & portable should I wish to try get it on the exhibition circuit so therefore needs to be reliable , I have made the decision now to go with EM

But you just have. The use of the words "simple" and "more realistic" I read as being rather provocative.

Please tell me what is not realistic about Little Bytham? Other examples are available.

As you mention your skill and experience I would suggest that you try and learn to walk before you start to try and run.

Bernard

[sulzer71]

1 minute ago, Bernard Lamb said:

But you just have. The use of the words "simple" and "more realistic" I read as being rather provocative.

Please tell me what is not realistic about Little Bytham? Other examples are available.

As you mention your skill and experience I would suggest that you try and learn to walk before you start to try and run.

Bernard

I've never mentioned Little Bytham and as it happens I've only ever seen it once in a YouTube video , also I have not commented on any of the bickering going on in this thread whatsoever with regards to peoples modelling disciplines , I have previously built/dismantled a couple of small OO layouts and not been happy with them as they always lacked something.

As my loco/stock collection will be getting major upgrades I thought converting to EM would give them that missing something without going to the lengths of fitting springing/compensation , also now there's ready to lay EM track/points and easy build point kits I think that's the best route to go being fairly new to this

[woodenhead]

@sulzer71 You just need to do what makes you happy, no point asking other people as they will all have different opinions and they make not match yours at the end of the day.

 

You're correct that EM is an easier entry to 'more' scale modelling and if that will make you happy then it's the correct path to take regardless what anyone else may feel.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

But you just have. The use of the words "simple" and "more realistic" I read as being rather provocative.

Please tell me what is not realistic about Little Bytham? Other examples are available.

As you mention your skill and experience I would suggest that you try and learn to walk before you start to try and run.

Bernard

Going back to the start of the thread, questions were asked about EM Gauge and what problems there might be. There are several answers on the first page, offering information about how one would go about modelling EM Gauge, especially the recommendation (later accepted) to join the EMGS.

 

Then a question was asked effectively about whether P4 had been considered. The thread went downhill from there, fast.

 

The question is why was the diversion off topic to P4 started in the first place? That's why it's false to say that non P4 modellers start 'gauge wars'. If people want to model EM, let them.

[Jol Wilkinson]

1 hour ago, kevinlms said:

I was going to reply to your post, based on the point that I wasn't the one that first raised the 'far more difficult' argument, but it's futile, since you are convinced that it's non P4 modellers, that create 'gauge wars'.

 

Says it all really.

Based upon many years of experience Kevin. and not the first time that someone else has decided what my views are without knowing me.

 

In my local S4 Society Area Group, of the ten members, only five model P4, some use DCC, some don't, one is exploring R/C, two have 5" gauge locos, four also model in OO and and one in O. A very eclectic bunch who don't indulge in any warfare and get along very well. Two of us are also members of the EMGS. The important thing  is that we all enjoy model making.

 

Looking through the topic doesn't show that anyone suggested that the OP shouldn't model in EM and the only question asked seemed to be that, if accurate looking track was a criteria, had he considered P4? IIt does seem that the thread went downhill at that point, but not as far as I con see at the behest of those who had admitted to modelling in P4.

 

Clearly nothing will dissuade you from your opinion about the innocence of non P4 modellers when it comes to "gauge wars", so as a member of the EMGS I am very happy that sulzer71 will be able to enjoy the benefits that the Society provides.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff Smith]

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

Going back to the start of the thread, questions were asked about EM Gauge and what problems there might be. There are several answers on the first page, offering information about how one would go about modelling EM Gauge, especially the recommendation (later accepted) to join the EMGS.

 

Then a question was asked effectively about whether P4 had been considered. The thread went downhill from there, fast.

 

The question is why was the diversion off topic to P4 started in the first place? That's why it's false to say that non P4 modellers start 'gauge wars'. If people want to model EM, let them.

As the scoundrel who first mentioned P4 it falls on my shoulders to offer some explanation.

 

Firstly, if you have an extensive commitment in OO, ie lots of rolling stock, and you want more appropriate looking track then a move to EM seems the obvious choice.

 

However if, like me, you have (or had) very little rolling stock and no layout and are prepared to get to grips with track and compensated chassis building then perhaps P4 is for you.

 

At the end of the day it is a hobby chosen and controlled by the individual but the more information available should result in appropriate decisions.

 

Incidentally I also model in O-16.5 and so am fully familiar with OO track and wheel standards and, yes compensation is normal for better conductivity.......

[sulzer71]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Firstly, if you have an extensive commitment in OO, ie lots of rolling stock, and you want more appropriate looking track then a move to EM seems the obvious choice.

 

That is another reason behind my inclination to go with EM over P4 as I have an increasing collection of loco's and rolling stock to convert and having limited time/skill set I don't want to spend years converting everything , coming into the hobby as late as I did you just never know how many years you have left ahead of you!

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Based upon many years of experience Kevin. and not the first time that someone else has decided what my views are without knowing me.

 

 

Clearly nothing will dissuade you from your opinion about the innocence of non P4 modellers when it comes to "gauge wars", so as a member of the EMGS I am very happy that sulzer71 will be able to enjoy the benefits that the Society provides.

 

Then we will have to agree to disagree, because I can only go by what you previously stated and alleged that I said something that I didn't, someone else did.

The OP was also misquoted about Little Bytham, claiming to say something bad, when he said no such thing.

[kevinlms]

1 minute ago, sulzer71 said:

That is another reason behind my inclination to go with EM over P4 as I have an increasing collection of loco's and rolling stock to convert and having limited time/skill set I don't want to spend years converting everything , coming into the hobby as late as I did you just never know how many years you have left ahead of you!

Good reasons. No point having an impossible task ahead. Might be OK, if starting off with decades left, good eyesight and flexible enough, etc.

[PenrithBeacon]

On 06/03/2022 at 22:23, Paul Cram said:

P4 is not "far more difficult" than OO or EM if you are building kits. It requires the same amount of care to get good running. It is more difficult than opening a box. I could nvever get OO vehilcles to stay on the track as I can't build them perfectly square, howver my P4 vehicles run perfectly.

Yeah me too. P4 wagon and coach kits are far easier than 00. But locos can be more difficult particularly as the compensation regimes are often far more difficult than they need to be.

I have found that most P4 loco RTR conversions are best done with Comet chassis kits (although I haven't attempted much), but I have also found that following the EMGS conversions (intended for EM not P4) works well too. Compensation isn't essential but it does improve running if you pick up power from the rails. But then if you go down the battery RC route you can solve that issue too.

I'm surprised that the OP seems to want to go the whole hog. I think baby steps are a great idea. Do a brake van, stop and think; do a wagon, ditto. Do a tank engine  (following EMGS manual) then you have a train! Yippee!

[sulzer71]

18 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I'm surprised that the OP seems to want to go the whole hog

The reason being as previously mentioned I have in the past built a couple of OO layouts I wasn't completely satisfied with and recently dismantled my 3rd attempt at baseboards , hence the reason to go 'the whole hog' this time around making improvements to everything I've previously done from the baseboards up 

[PenrithBeacon]

Best of luck, but I think you're attempting too much too soon. Join the EMGS and join a club which has a EM layout/test track. Get a working three vehicle train and then think about track. Gives you something to run if only as a distraction when you get overwhelmed by the issues. 

Believe me I know about issues and it's great to talk to a mate down the club.

[sulzer71]

Well , no turning back now , just bought an EM gauge Bachmann Class 20 , will need to swap chassis or bogies onto one of those already in my fleet though

[Enterprisingwestern]

17 hours ago, sulzer71 said:

Well , no turning back now , just bought an EM gauge Bachmann Class 20 , will need to swap chassis or bogies onto one of those already in my fleet though

 

That's cheating!

Although under 90 sovs for an Ultrascaled loco isn't bad, assuming it's the one I think it is that you have bought.

 

Mike.

[sulzer71]

3 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

That's cheating!

Although under 90 sovs for an Ultrascaled loco isn't bad, assuming it's the one I think it is that you have bought.

 

Mike.

There's been 2 on the e of the bay this week , not sure if they are ultrascales on the  one I won but ended up costing me £70.50 , also I'm collecting tonight as it's in the same town as I live

[sulzer71]

21 hours ago, sulzer71 said:

There's been 2 on the e of the bay this week , not sure if they are ultrascales on the  one I won but ended up costing me £70.50 , also I'm collecting tonight as it's in the same town as I live

Update , the class 20 was NOT EM gauge! , on a better note I have now joined the EM Gauge Society

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, sulzer71 said:

Update , the class 20 was NOT EM gauge! , on a better note I have now joined the EM Gauge Society

 

Pulling out the existing wheels works initially, then, if you want to go further later, the world's your lobster!

 

Mike.