W&U Tramcar

[PhilJ W]

My (Titfield Thunderbolt) coach has just arrived in the post, brilliant model! One very minor quibble, it took fifteen minutes to remove it from the box as the packaging is an extremely tight fit but that might be my one only. I used a strip of thick card* to lever the clear plastic inner box out. *The card was backing attached to a kitchen utensil purchased a few weeks ago cut into narrow strips. It was also rigid and strong enough to remove the roof without damage.

[Tiny151]

Studying product shots of the preserved livery on a few retailers sites and in reviews, all the examples shown look to have the printing for First Class at the bar end and the purely seated end marked as Third. A bar certainly feels like First Class luxury, but from the images taken on my ride in the real thing this summer I believe Rapido have it back to front in this regard!

 

 

 

Excited to receive my model all the same and aware the bar is far from a period feature anyway. Though perhaps Rapido can advise if this is an artwork or assembly issue and how practical it would be for the purchaser to switch the interior or bodywork around to correct this?

[RapidoCorbs]

13 minutes ago, Tiny151 said:

Studying product shots of the preserved livery on a few retailers sites and in reviews, all the examples shown look to have the printing for First Class at the bar end and the purely seated end marked as Third. A bar certainly feels like First Class luxury, but from the images taken on my ride in the real thing this summer I believe Rapido have it back to front in this regard!

 

 

Excited to receive my model all the same and aware the bar is far from a period feature anyway. Though perhaps Rapido can advise if this is an artwork or assembly issue and how practical it would be for the purchaser to switch the interior or bodywork around to correct this?

 

Definitely my fault as I spec'd it that way around 😑 apologies.

I've had a quick look at my Titfield-spec one to see if it is possible to move the interior but there are a lot of pieces and they are very well glued in. e.g. the end glazing would need to be moved to the other end. There are so many parts I think the risk of damage is high.

I'm really sorry about the mistake.

[Tiny151]

19 minutes ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Definitely my fault as I spec'd it that way around 😑 apologies.

I've had a quick look at my Titfield-spec one to see if it is possible to move the interior but there are a lot of pieces and they are very well glued in. e.g. the end glazing would need to be moved to the other end. There are so many parts I think the risk of damage is high.

I'm really sorry about the mistake.

 

Appreciate the response, particularly at this hour on a weekend.

 

These things are unfortunate, but given the artistic license taken with the real vehicle a touch more here is fine in my books. I quite like the fantasy of being tucked away in the First Class bar anyway!

[Jenny Emily]

a video of the tramcars, plus the L&Y not-mink. 

[PhilJ W]

I thought I could see a face in the window of the GE liveried coach. It took looking at it three times before I realised it was the bar fittings.😁

[ATME]

Quick question for Rapido.....was it decided that the safety chains that appeared on the early renders of the model, were not to be included in the final version? (I have the BR(E) brown pair) Or were they only fitted on the GE version? If I decided to fit them, are they an available spare from the J70?

Thanks

 

Nice models by the way.

[RapidoCorbs]

26 minutes ago, ATME said:

Quick question for Rapido.....was it decided that the safety chains that appeared on the early renders of the model, were not to be included in the final version? (I have the BR(E) brown pair) Or were they only fitted on the GE version? If I decided to fit them, are they an available spare from the J70?

Thanks

 

Nice models by the way.

I checked with the designer and they said the chains were fitted by the GER and removed by the LNER.

 

I'm not sure about spares, maybe check in with us after the C53+coaches tram packs have arrived to ask if any spares are being shipped with them?

 

[PhilJ W]

I have a copy of 'The Tollesbury Branch' by Peter Payne (OPC ISBN 086093327X). It has several photographs of these coaches working on the Tollesbury branch. Of particular interest are photographs of the interior of these coaches. These show that they were fitted with hanging straps similar to London Underground tube stock. On the end partitions to the left of the door was a picture of the type usually seen in compartment stock. To the right of the door there is either a timetable or fare table. Most interestingly number E60462 was repainted into British Railways brown and re-lettered in BR Gil Sands lettering as late as September 1950 only 8 months before the closure of the branch and its withdrawal. If you want to model the Tollesbury branch you will need a brake third modified as per prototype. The two brake thirds on the line had quite a few differences, in the duckets in particular and the easiest one to replicate would be 62261 as it resembles the Rails generic 6 wheel brake third. The basic alterations needed would be to fit 11mm wheels with raising the buffer beams about 2 mm to compensate. The other modifications would be to fit an end door, drop plate and handrails for the conductor/guard. Also the compartment doors were sealed all except those at the inner end and panelled over. 

[JShow]

I've borrowed a copy of the Peter Paye book from a friend and it's full of interesting and useful information.

It's hard not to notice that the passenger consists always included a brake third. In earlier days these were four wheel coaches converted to tramway use. I think the easiest conversion of existing RTR models would be to start with a Hattons four wheel brake-- the guard's end is very similar to the six wheel LNER 62261. The six wheel brakes replaced the older four wheel brake thirds in 1931 but the numbers of the four wheelers were transferred to the six wheelers. The wheels on the six wheel brake thirds were 3', so 12mm wheels would be best. Modifications in addition to those Phil mentions would be addressing the steps--both for guards/passengers and for accessing the roof. When I get my Hattons four wheel brake (on order) I'll make an assessment.

[PhilJ W]

14 minutes ago, JShow said:

I've borrowed a copy of the Peter Paye book from a friend and it's full of interesting and useful information.

It's hard not to notice that the passenger consists always included a brake third. In earlier days these were four wheel coaches converted to tramway use. I think the easiest conversion of existing RTR models would be to start with a Hattons four wheel brake-- the guard's end is very similar to the six wheel LNER 62261. The six wheel brakes replaced the older four wheel brake thirds in 1931 but the numbers of the four wheelers were transferred to the six wheelers. The wheels on the six wheel brake thirds were 3', so 12mm wheels would be best. Modifications in addition to those Phil mentions would be addressing the steps--both for guards/passengers and for accessing the roof. When I get my Hattons four wheel brake (on order) I'll make an assessment.

62261 was a brake third and was fitted with 2' 9" wheels, as stated in Peter Paye's book.

[JShow]

46 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

62261 was a brake third and was fitted with 2' 9" wheels, as stated in Peter Paye's book.

The table on page 117 indicates the four wheel brake thirds, Diagrams 601 through 608, had 2'9'' wheels, while the six wheel brake thirds, Diagrams 609 and 610, had 3'0" wheels.  Two vehicles carried number 62261-- first one of the four wheel brake thirds, then the six wheel brake third that lasted to the end of passenger service. Confusing.

[PhilJ W]

It seems strange that two different vehicles should both carry the same running number. It would probably be easier to source 12mm wheels anyway.

[Typeapproval]

Hello

 

Just received my W&U tramcar from Rapido, 

 

Excelent secure packaging, Well presented in its box, which includes am "Owners Manual" containing useful information about the Model.

 

All in all worth the wait and cost.

 

Regards

David.

[Jammy2305]

On 05/11/2023 at 00:04, Tiny151 said:

Studying product shots of the preserved livery on a few retailers sites and in reviews, all the examples shown look to have the printing for First Class at the bar end and the purely seated end marked as Third. A bar certainly feels like First Class luxury, but from the images taken on my ride in the real thing this summer I believe Rapido have it back to front in this regard!

 

 

 

Excited to receive my model all the same and aware the bar is far from a period feature anyway. Though perhaps Rapido can advise if this is an artwork or assembly issue and how practical it would be for the purchaser to switch the interior or bodywork around to correct this?

 

It is also worth noting that the models of No.7 and No.8 (the Titfield car) share the same interior from No.8 (presumably to make use of the bar tooling, which is wholly understandable!). However, the real No.7 was/is a composite and so has a compartment division in the middle of the coach vs No.8 which was open. 

 

 

 

I must stress this does not detract from what is otherwise a beautiful model and I am grateful we have tramcars at all (indeed, I am eagerly awaiting the pre-1919 tram pack but also gave in and purchased No.7 at the weekend to run with my model of Ring Haw).

 

- James 

[PhilJ W]

I understand that the composite was converted to all third when on the Tollesbury branch. Whether or not the partition was removed I don't know.

[PaulG]

For my Colchester layout, I did a little research to see if a W&U carriage could have been seen at Colchester off the Tollesbury line before it closed in 1951. Certainly Colchester was responsible for the locos and apparently minor carriage works. But I could not find any photographs or records of the carriages at Colchester, search as I may..................but.....................

 

Attached are my notes, which were a bit of fun compiling which may be of interest. I was told many many years ago, the restored tram carriage, along with the restored LTSR carriage, was scrapped, by accident at Stratford, but Peter Paye in his book says Bounds Green were the culprits. 

 

GER tram coaches.pdf

 

Paul

 

 

 

[PhilJ W]

The bar was never fitted to the carriages in service. The one in the film was a studio set and the one in the preserved example is to provide extra revenue for the NNR. I hope that the coaches in the sets do not have the bar, just plain seating.

[RapidoCorbs]

Only 3 have bars - the fictitious BR maroon one, the Titfield one, and the NNR one.

[NHY 581]

Collected the two BR brown examples yesterday. Excellent little models. Top effort all round. 

Have to say, I'm really looking forward to weathering them but there will be a bit of a delay due to temporary lack of facilities.

 

Rob

[Bernard Lamb]

I had to get a pair for my Tollesbury based layout. I have a six wheel brake as a place holder to run with them.

Very nice models. But, oh dear. Why is there a 5mm plus gap between buffers on the two cars when coupled together? They are fitted with cams, so no reason at all why they need this huge gap, even on tight curves. It makes the fitting of the scale length intercar drop down walkways look rather silly.

Having given up scale couplings a few years ago on much of my stock, due to poor eyesight, I think that I need to fit screw couplings to these and run them as a fixed rake. Excellent as the detail is, as a rake they look horrible.

Funnily enough I was involved recently in a discussion on another thread about close coupling on a Kato German DMU. They seemed to have got it right the best part of 20 years ago.

Bernard

[Dunsignalling]

19 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I had to get a pair for my Tollesbury based layout. I have a six wheel brake as a place holder to run with them.

Very nice models. But, oh dear. Why is there a 5mm plus gap between buffers on the two cars when coupled together? They are fitted with cams, so no reason at all why they need this huge gap, even on tight curves. It makes the fitting of the scale length intercar drop down walkways look rather silly.

Having given up scale couplings a few years ago on much of my stock, due to poor eyesight, I think that I need to fit screw couplings to these and run them as a fixed rake. Excellent as the detail is, as a rake they look horrible.

Funnily enough I was involved recently in a discussion on another thread about close coupling on a Kato German DMU. They seemed to have got it right the best part of 20 years ago.

Bernard

The close coupling links will be ineffective if you keep the tension-lock couplers between the pair anyway. They only function properly if coupled together with no side-play, and once any has been eliminated no buffer-to--buffer gap should be needed when on straight track. 

 

I recommend substituting a pair of Roco heads if you want to be able to uncouple them "on stage", or a pair of short magnetic couplers if you will only need to separate them in the fiddle yard.

 

John

Edited November 7, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[PhilJ W]

44 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I had to get a pair for my Tollesbury based layout. I have a six wheel brake as a place holder to run with them.

Very nice models. But, oh dear. Why is there a 5mm plus gap between buffers on the two cars when coupled together? They are fitted with cams, so no reason at all why they need this huge gap, even on tight curves. It makes the fitting of the scale length intercar drop down walkways look rather silly.

Having given up scale couplings a few years ago on much of my stock, due to poor eyesight, I think that I need to fit screw couplings to these and run them as a fixed rake. Excellent as the detail is, as a rake they look horrible.

Funnily enough I was involved recently in a discussion on another thread about close coupling on a Kato German DMU. They seemed to have got it right the best part of 20 years ago.

Bernard

I would suggest magnetic couplings. They come in various lengths to suit your needs. @Dunsignalling has beaten me to it.

[Pint of Adnams]

16 hours ago, PaulG said:

For my Colchester layout, I did a little research to see if a W&U carriage could have been seen at Colchester off the Tollesbury line before it closed in 1951. Certainly Colchester was responsible for the locos and apparently minor carriage works. But I could not find any photographs or records of the carriages at Colchester, search as I may..................but.....................

 

Attached are my notes, which were a bit of fun compiling which may be of interest. I was told many many years ago, the restored tram carriage, along with the restored LTSR carriage, was scrapped, by accident at Stratford, but Peter Paye in his book says Bounds Green were the culprits. 

 

GER tram coaches.pdf 1.02 MB · 26 downloads

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

And curiously Simon Castens in his book The Titfield Thunderbolt attributes the scrapping to Crewe (p91)...

[Chris116]

So we have one coach that it took three depots to scrap! Must have been very well built.