Hornby Class 423 4-VEP

[Nobby (John)]

This thread seems to be going round in circles.

 

Perhaps it was time it was locked until the blue/grey one comes along, give everyone a chance to calm down?

 

Could not agree more after 54 pages of this i am now getting dizzy..........

[Andy Y]

This thread seems to be going round in circles.

 

Perhaps it was time it was locked until the blue/grey one comes along, give everyone a chance to calm down?

 

I think that's reasonable. If anyone has any substantial additional information/content please drop me a note.

 

It's still a pup though.

[Bill]

Here is a link to model Railways Direct..

 

http://www.modelrailwaysdirect.co.uk/Hornby-R2946-BR-Class-423-VEP-Train-Pack/

 

To quote from their site...

 

"These VEP models have had a factory modification made to the bogies which will correct the occasional derailments that a few customers had experienced with this model that had not been modified."

 

The price has also been discounted to #99.00..

Maybe this 'upgrade' is now also appearing with other retailers?

['CHARD]

Now then, £99.00 (45% discount) is a much more attractive proposition for this 4-car unit, I'm sure some fellow travellers might agree....

[S.A.C Martin]

I'm in danger of going on another rant, but I will resist...

 

"These VEP models have had a factory modification made to the bogies which will correct the occasional derailments that a few customers had experienced with this model that had not been modified."

 

Has anyone heard a single word about this, anywhere else, at all? I would have thought that this would be rather big news in the Modelling press.

 

Chard, at £99 it's still not an attractive proposition for me. Not until I see what, if anything, has been done to the bogies.

[Legend]

I'm in danger of going on another rant, but I will resist...

 

 

 

Has anyone heard a single word about this, anywhere else, at all? I would have thought that this would be rather big news in the Modelling press.

 

Chard, at £99 it's still not an attractive proposition for me. Not until I see what, if anything, has been done to the bogies.

 

Exactly!

 

While its good they have made corrections- they must have found something to correct! So where's the offer to replace for the guys that have already shelled out £132 for one of these units. Similar to the class 31 chassis episode where those in the know can request replacement- but no general announcement. Very economical with the truth and I think quite shoddy!

 

SAC it won't be big news in the model railway press as I can't remember any of them remarking on the initial problems, despite your best efforts. I think a sad reflection on the model rail press who I still look at as being manufacturer orientated.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Legend

['CHARD]

Has anyone heard a single word about this, anywhere else, at all? I would have thought that this would be rather big news in the Modelling press.

 

Chard, at £99 it's still not an attractive proposition for me. Not until I see what, if anything, has been done to the bogies.

 

Simon, I can entirely understand why. However, my point was maybe self-reflective, in that I found myself wondering what I could make use of one for, at under a ton.

 

You know as well as I that it wouldn't fit any of my modelling plans, but it was the sensation that this reduction pitched it into appropriate Railroad territory, unintentionally perhaps, that made me scratch my head and wonder at what price-point other modellers might start to take it in numbers.

[SRman]

I have resisted up to now but at that price it may be a little more tempting. It is still a fair amount of dollarpounds to spend on something that needs so much corrective work to its appearance (that front 'face' is definitely not right!). On the other hand, 99 pounds for a four-car motorised unit with a good finish is possibly reasonable value for money.

 

... Thinking out loud here but others may also benefit from my thought processes ...

[Gwiwer]

£99 (or around £82.20 to non-EU purchasers) makes it a little more palatable. As Jeff says that's not a bad price for a 4-car unit with a motor in it. Will I be investing? I simply don't have the time or skill required to adequately improve the model to a standard I might be happy with. So "thanks but no thanks" from me. Dropping the price to a "Railroad" level might reflect both poor sales and poor press for the units; it certainly reflects the general quality as described by numerous purchasers both here and on other similar sites.

[Trevellan]

You know as well as I that it wouldn't fit any of my modelling plans...

 

That's a shame. I was waiting for the link to photographic evidence that a 4VEP had been seen in Hawick .

[Pennine MC]

That's a shame. I was waiting for the link to photographic evidence that a 4VEP had been seen in Hawick .

 

It's in 4VEPs Countrywide, shortly after the S&D chapter.

 

 

 

 

[Western Scottish]

Per Exel1095 way back mid November

 

I asked Simon Kohler about how the Brighton Belle would be powered, saying I was worried in the light of the VEP issues highlighted in this thread. He was pretty insistent that there were only a few problems with individual units and that most of the comment on internet fora was pretty worthless. Now, I have not bought a VEP (because of the solid partition) and so I said I only had the evidence of what others said. This was exactly the point, he replied - lots of anonymous comment and very little of substance.

 

Strange how very little of substance turns into

 

"These VEP models have had a factory modification made to the bogies which will correct the occasional derailments that a few customers had experienced with this model that had not been modified."

[S.A.C Martin]

I'm afraid unless anyone actually purchases one of these "modified" units (or hears back from Hornby - watch this space) then it's still technically in the "hear-say" pile, despite being up for sale on a website.

 

It seems to be the case with the 4VEP that "we" (we few, we happy few, we band of modellers) are never "happy" to some extent, but I find the severe lack of information available on whatever fix has now been produced, to be rather aggravating again, and leaves me despairing somewhat.

 

I mean, if there is a fix that Hornby have created, surely putting it so far under the radar that no one knows about it is self defeating? I can understand not wanting to provide the model railway press with a possible negative outlook on this model but it surely could be construed as positive action that, finally...! Some action has been taken and "we" have been taken seriously.

 

Never quite sure where Hornby are with their thinking. The 4VEP is summing that up rather nicely for me.

Edited April 2, 2012 by S.A.C Martin

[Bill]

I once bought a bottle of a well known cola company's branded bottled water.

When I opened it it I found it contained alcohol.

So I wrote a letter of complaint.

Instead of offering an explanation or registering their intention to investigate the matter - they tried to convince me that it had never happened.

It is a blatant '1984' brand of thinking, "where nothing ever goes wrong", that pervades certain consumer oriented businesses that in particular deal with families.

It appears that Hornby might be operating such a business model -

With all the denials and deceptions that are required to maintain and sustain their idea of a pristine, too good to be true, glossy public image.

Its all about the fantasy of brand purity -

Consumer recalls, therefore, might hurt their public image, so we should probably not be looking for a flurry of press releases on this one that say -

"We goofed and we are sorry and we shall put it right."

[Ceptic]

So.....All is well with the 'Belle'...by all accounts ?

 

I've thought this previously, and, the question remains,...

 

"Have Hornby, again belatedly, entered the field of producing a run-of-the-mill Emu (Not forgetting the Networker), whilst setting their sights on the "Upper crust" market ?... And,.. Was the 4-VEP merely a rehersal / survey, to mark down, what standards the potential customers are prepared to accept ?"

 

As I say, the question remains.

 

(I don't know why, but, something abuot this reminds me, strangely? of the Titanic)

 

Regards

[Western Scottish]

So.....All is well with the 'Belle'...by all accounts ?

 

I've thought this previously, and, the question remains,...

 

"Have Hornby, again belatedly, entered the field of producing a run-of-the-mill Emu (Not forgetting the Networker), whilst setting their sights on the "Upper crust" market ?... And,.. Was the 4-VEP merely a rehersal / survey, to mark down, what standards the potential customers are prepared to accept ?"

 

As I say, the question remains.

 

(I don't know why, but, something abuot this reminds me, strangely? of the Titanic)

 

Regards

 

Probably we will find that this model was outsourced to another suppler (not Sandakan),perhaps the same one as the elusive B17s, and thats why this model was so deficient. Suspect with the BEL they have reverted top original producer or simply learned lessons from the VEP. Whatever the reason it shouldn't hsave affected the buying public - but it did! Shame Hornby are not proactive in advising their existing customers , but then they've already sold these units and seem to have little interest.

[dibber25]

Exactly!

 

While its good they have made corrections- they must have found something to correct! So where's the offer to replace for the guys that have already shelled out £132 for one of these units. Similar to the class 31 chassis episode where those in the know can request replacement- but no general announcement. Very economical with the truth and I think quite shoddy!

 

SAC it won't be big news in the model railway press as I can't remember any of them remarking on the initial problems, despite your best efforts. I think a sad reflection on the model rail press who I still look at as being manufacturer orientated.

 

The model press can only speak as they find. We had no problems with the running of our sample VEP. To launch into print based on anything other than one's own experience can potentially be a very expensive business. Apart from the prospect of replacement interior partitions, we have not been advised of any other changes.

CHRIS LEIGH

[Legend]

Thanks Dibber . I appreciate you must report as you find although it might have been useful for one of the mags to look more closely into the issues once difficulties were being reported in various forums, not least on here. Looking forward to the next issue of Model Rail on how to improve the VEP.

[Electrostar]

 

 

The model press can only speak as they find. We had no problems with the running of our sample VEP. To launch into print based on anything other than one's own experience can potentially be a very expensive business. Apart from the prospect of replacement interior partitions, we have not been advised of any other changes.

CHRIS LEIGH

 

I disagree. Your review model was a good runner but plenty of your potential readers reported the opposite once the production batch reached shops. As a journalist don't you have a responsibility to investigate this story to discover if the reported faults were false, an unfortunate blip or applicable to a large batch? You could approach Hornby and ask for a comment, ask retailers about numbers of returns and contact forum members. You may find the problem was tiny and reassure readers of this, or discover a major problem which needs to be tackled.

 

If a car magazine gave a glowing review to a test vehicle I wouldn't expect them to ignore subsequent reports of engine trouble in future issues, so why shouldn't the model press investigate a legitimate story?

[royaloak]

On the first release werent the traction tyres on opposite corners of the motor bogie but they were then changed so they were both on the same side?

 

Maybe this is what model railways direct are on about and not a "new" modification.

[S.A.C Martin]

Other models have had marks removed by portions of the model railway press for incorrect or dimensionally incorrect portions of its design, and in some cases, quite harshly too.

 

The 4VEP left out altogether a specific door handle and partition compartment, as well as having the guard rails on the wrong ends of the outer bogies, requiring in my case extensive surgery to fix the error, and in others complete replacement from other sources.

 

Not a word of these specific design faults on the press, which for any other model would have received an altogether different scoring, never mind the running (which on here ranges from okay to negligible).

 

As far as I'm concerned, the 4VEP had remarkably special treatment in the press compared to other models from other manufacturers.

 

How in one magazine, the Beattie Well Tank could drop marks for the possibility of an inaccurate chimney shape, but the NSE 4VEP scored the same with more and somewhat greater errors (but never mentioned) remains a source of frustration and confusion for me.

 

The question is why - and unfortunately I am afraid the obvious answer (which I would not like to think is correct) involves a certain understanding of the economics in magazine publishing these days.

[br-nse-fan]

This may be slightly off topic... but I have not yet received my NSE VEP and have also pre-ordered the Blue/Grey. I'll be picking up the NSE one at the GBTS (Great British Train Show) in Brampton, ON later this month.

 

As someone who has less than remarkable painting ability, and the sheer cost of getting a 4-car unit painted to the standard that Hornby has achieved, on top of the time and materials to build a kit or from scratch... are they really THAT bad?

 

Yes, Hornby could / should have done a better job on the QA side... and the use of the 73/railcar power bogie is beyond comprehension... but aside from that... it seems to me that it looks like a VEP. I admit, that with it being in the same price range as the Bachmann CEP, I too would have expected more.

 

If I recall correctly, someone had indicated that swapping one of the axels around the other way on the motor bogie improved the running quality drastically. Could I ask what the general concensus on this has been? Another question... although it would be nice to be able to run them on their own, has anyone tried running a VEP with one of the equally underpowered 73's? I am curious as this may resolve my concerns over it being able to make it's way up the various inclines I have on my layout. I don't know if I will be bothering with laying 3rd rail or just running my various EMU's with an appropriate 33, 73 or 47.

 

 

My Dad's answer to extending the life of a way-past-its-prime Lima 33 who's pancake died.

Edited April 3, 2012 by br-nse-fan

[Ron Ron Ron]

... are they really THAT bad?

 

......it seems to me that it looks like a VEP. ......

 

Take a look at page 8 of this thread.

There you will see the beginning of a series of photos, showing the complete botch they've made of the front gangways, with the door deeply recessed.

 

Some of the individual faults with this model are small and some are enough on their own to give it a negative overall verdict; but it's the combination of all these errors and faults with the poor specification and build quality, that has caused the disappointment.

 

"... are they really THAT bad?" ......well it's not very good, that's for sure. Probably the worst model for a number of years.

 

 

.

[SRman]

A further bargain at Bromsgrove Models on https://clarahost.clara.net/www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/pi1126361182.htm?categoryId=3 - 77 UK Pounds for the blue VEP but only until Easter! Watch the postage costs but still a bargain. Only two left when I looked just before typing this post.

[BromsMods]

Watch the postage costs

 

That's an outrageous comment!