WIGAN EXHIBITION 2022 Saturday 1st & Sunday 2nd October

[AY Mod]

On 06/10/2022 at 10:05, Eaton said:

dinnertime pie.

 

Already on it.

 

[Barry O]

8 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Already on it.

 

wheres' the sprouts???

 

Baz (asking for a friend!)

[AY Mod]

6 minutes ago, Barry O said:

wheres' the sprouts?

 

It's a local business; they'll stick what you want in - even sprouts you weirdo. 😎

[APOLLO]

Square pies only for birthdays.

 

 

A Wigan speciality - Pork pie wedding "cake"

 

 

The ultimate show stopper for your big day.

Tiers are available in:

Classic Pork

Turkey, Ham & Pork

Pork, Stuffing & Cranberry

Pork Stuffing & Apple

 

Choose up to four tiers or each tier can be purchased individually for any occasion. Gravy extra.

 

Brit15

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

56 minutes ago, Barry O said:

wheres' the sprouts???

 

Baz (asking for a friend!)

 

50 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

It's a local business; they'll stick what you want in - even sprouts you weirdo. 😎

 

Celebrating Christmas already are we?

 

Mike.

[ardbealach]

As a regular exhibitor, and one who attended Wigan with one of the layous, can I first thank the Wigan organisers for putting on such a great show of high quality layouts over last weekend.  Not that I saw much of them as I was busy operating!

 

May I give some thoughts as an exhibitor on the catering over the Wigan weekend.  Having been invited to exhibit a layout I believe my first duty is to entertain the visitors who have paid to come into the hall.  It is not to sit in a meal area with an hour's break for lunch.  Personally, I am happy to forego the lunch provided at the show if I have had a decent breakfast of cereal / a full English and a decent cup of coffee to start the day.  That decent breakfast will last me all day until I have a curry and pint after the show on the Saturday evening. 

 

And after the show on the Sunday we know that there will be the usual busy couple of hours after a day's operating breaking down the layout, loading it into the van and getting it back to base to unload, before we finally get home.   This can often be well after ten, or later, in the Sunday evening depending on the location of the show from home.   The Sunday evening meal is usually a Big Mac enroute.

 

It is appreciated that exhibition managers look to control outgoing costs, but I was less than moved by the breakfast provided at Wigan.  So much so that our team booked our hotel for a full breakfast before coming to the show on the Sunday morning.         

 

I know that some of my fellow exhibitors enjoy a break at lunchtime and sit awhile with something to eat.  As I say I am happy to keep operating as long as I have plenty of mugs of tea throughout the day with an occasional comfort break.   I have been to exhibitions where an apple / crisps / and a sandwich have been provided.  Often I have seen these picnic packs go uneaten which is clearly a waste of food and expense.   I have also been to exhibitions where exhibitors are given a meal ticket for a free, or part subsidised lunch.  At these shows those who want to eat can eat, and those who don't, don't.  The one exception for me is Taunton Show and the school where, despite having had a breakfast, I will always find time to have their lunch.  Those who have been to Taunton Show will know what I am talking about.

 

I suppose the problem at Wigan is that it show is held in a sports centre with a bar.  And probably no one responsible at the centre had the authority to make a bit of extra income for the centre to provide suitable meals / snacks etc for visitors and for the exhibitors.   And the nearest supermarket to the centre was a bit of a walk away.

 

And yes,  you certainly got a great sugar high hit from just the smell of the sweets - even just walking past.  (Alisdair)

 

[Eaton]

 

 

 

Our problem concerning the catering was a result of the hotel that we have previously used for over a decade becoming a hostel and as a consequence no longer available to us. This meant that we had to find a replacement that would accommodate all our guests at a reasonable cost in Wigan. Easy one would have thought, but alas not so. It proved to be an impossible task both from a financial point of view and also location wise. Hence the extra distance to the accommodation and the attempt to trim costs with an alternative breakfast. We are well aware that this proved to be an unsatisfactory solution and again we can only apologize. Rest assured it will not happen again. 

[ardbealach]

Thanks for your note, Eaton.  The background is what we had guessed.  Who would want to be an exhibition organiser?

 

Here's to Wigan 2023!  (Alisdair)

[Samedan]

I was waiting for someone to mention the pies in a barm and “pie kebab” etc. Yes, Wigan is forever saddled with the “Pie Eaters” nickname, although historians argue that it derives from the miners having to humiliatingly end a strike and return to work, thereby eating “humble pie”. Moreover, adding insult to injury, the nickname was supposedly bestowed by Leythers (I.e. people residing in the neighbouring town of Leigh).

Having said that, the pie is an enduringly popular meal in Wigan and Poole’s pies are justly famous. As was, in my family at least, Grandma’s “plate pies”, full of yummy gravy. 
What’s disappointing to me is that the catering in the Robin Park sports centre continues to be limited in choice. And trust me, this year’s offering was, in my opinion, more diverse and better quality than in the past. I don’t know whether it’s down to a contracted caterer or the Leisure Trust which, I presume, still runs the centre, but in a building devoted to health and fitness, it’s odd that healthier options are not available. 
None of this is the fault of the exhibition organisers of course and one can only sympathise with their efforts to provide affordable accommodation and catering in difficult circumstances. I have to say that the catering at Robin Park is far from the worst that I’ve experienced at model railway exhibitions. Schools, church halls, race courses and other public and leisure and entertainment buildings, including purpose-built exhibition venues, are often depressingly ordinary in their catering. The NEC only gets over this issue by bringing in outside catering trailers.

With that whinge out of the way, I want to reiterate that this year’s Wigan show was very high quality and we are fortunate that a very convenient and spacious venue continues to be made available for it. Long May it continue. 

[Eaton]

I'm very pleased that people found the exhibition to be of high quality as that was the very reason that we organised the event. It was the reason why, many years ago we raised the admission price to £10. This was to give us the funds to bring layouts to Wigan from the far reaches of the country, layouts that other wise would not be seen in Wigan and the surrounding area. In those early days there was no need for us to embark on the 'penny pinching' that is now sadly becoming the norm.

We are now in the position of either protecting the quality of the invited layouts or cutting back on the quality of our invited guests experience. Rest assured it is, for us, and unpleasant position to be in. There are some interesting discussions and meeting ahead.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Eaton said:

I'm very pleased that people found the exhibition to be of high quality as that was the very reason that we organised the event. It was the reason why, many years ago we raised the admission price to £10. This was to give us the funds to bring layouts to Wigan from the far reaches of the country, layouts that other wise would not be seen in Wigan and the surrounding area. In those early days there was no need for us to embark on the 'penny pinching' that is now sadly becoming the norm.

We are now in the position of either protecting the quality of the invited layouts or cutting back on the quality of our invited guests experience. Rest assured it is, for us, and unpleasant position to be in. There are some interesting discussions and meeting ahead.

Cutting the quality of the invited layouts seems like a death spiral for a show like Wigan, so it has to be about how you give the invited guests the best experience within a limited budget, perhaps expectations from previous events have affected how guests viewed this year's provision and perhaps managing those expectations might cut down discourse for next year.  It may also be that entry prices have to rise a little further so you can still maintain that high quality.

 

It really was a good show this year - I missed GETs but am not upset over that, I would have been upset to have missed Wigan.

[APOLLO]

7 hours ago, Samedan said:

I was waiting for someone to mention the pies in a barm and “pie kebab” etc. Yes, Wigan is forever saddled with the “Pie Eaters” nickname, although historians argue that it derives from the miners having to humiliatingly end a strike and return to work, thereby eating “humble pie”. Moreover, adding insult to injury, the nickname was supposedly bestowed by Leythers (I.e. people residing in the neighbouring town of Leigh).

Having said that, the pie is an enduringly popular meal in Wigan and Poole’s pies are justly famous.

 

Wiganers are rightly known as Pie Eaters but did you know the neighbouring town of Leigh folk are known as "Lobby Gobblers" 

 

Lobby is a traditional North Staffordshire stew eaten by poorly-paid potters who could not afford freshly prepared food every day. In Leigh, the dish earned the nickname "lobby gobblers" for the inhabitants of the town (by us pie eaters), in contrast to the "pie eaters" of neighbouring Wigan.

 

Mentioning Leigh & model railway exhibitions I attended the Leigh MRE a few weeks ago at Leigh Sports Village and have to say for a fiver entrance fee I was impressed by the show, both layouts, trade, and some other modelling displays. Not as big or impressive as Wigan but a good show and value for money. It was well attended by the public.

 

I will visit both again next year.

 

Brit15

 

 

[woodenhead]

23 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

Wiganers are rightly known as Pie Eaters but did you know the neighbouring town of Leigh folk are known as "Lobby Gobblers"

 

 

Thought you were going to say something very different when I first read that.

[Eaton]

We have no option but to provide an enjoyable experience for our invited layout owners and operators. If we fail to do so, then why would they come to Wigan. That this years offering fell short is a considerable concern. We do not want to be in a position of invitations being refused on these grounds. How do we generate the income to make sure this doesn't happen next year is the very big question. I am sure a further increase in admission price would not be a popular move!

 

Any solutions would be very welcome.

[Barry O]

From one of the exhibitors at this year's show. 

 

The catering was fine for both me and my colleagues. We did read the instructions so took mugs for a tea/coffee with breakfast and lunch. Perhaps those who would prefer cereals should be able to book them "up front".. more paperwork  I know.

 

We stayed in St Helens, n8cechotel but a fair distance away from the halls.  

 

Free teas and coffee much appreciated.

 

Baz

Leeds MRS CIO

[Samedan]

On 10/10/2022 at 14:08, Eaton said:

We are now in the position of either protecting the quality of the invited layouts or cutting back on the quality of our invited guests experience.

I presume you ask for more structured feedback from “guests” than a few comments in a thread such as this? From those, it sounds as if the grumbles are relatively minor (lack of cereal at the free breakfast?).
Wigan is not endowed with lots of high quality, budget priced hotels but how many places are these days? I appreciate that the whole process of packing up a layout and taking to and from an exhibition must be exhausting, time consuming and potentially financially costly. Exhibitors should rightly expect not to be out of pocket for reasonable expenses. But, as someone who toured the country in the course of a fairly important government job, I was accustomed to accept varied standards of experience at the hotels within my  limited expenses budget (please, no violins). Clean, safe, comfortable and accessible should be the minimum standards. A hearty but sub-Cordon Bleu breakfast is just one of the things that we have to put up with in Britain, I fear. 
Surely, the pleasure of exhibiting one’s artistic and craft endeavours to a wide audience must be the main point of exhibiting? I hope that exhibitors appreciate the platform that the Wigan exhibition provides in that regard.

To the organisers, I would suggest that if absolutely necessary it would be preferable to allow the exhibition to contract in size a little, whilst retaining high quality layouts, including some from other parts of the country. Thereby providing a product which is distinctive from many of the smaller, more local shows. I don’t know whether concentrating all of the show in one large hall would significantly reduce costs? Given the generous seating space in the main hall, perhaps that could be achieved without reducing the number of layouts too much? Personally, I would rather see the number of layouts maximised at the expense of the demonstration and society stands, but I accept not everyone will agree. 
I think that, in the current and likely near future economic climate, increasing admission prices should be avoided if possible. If a small increase in the on the door price is deemed inevitable, then maybe various ticket packages could be enhanced, such as family discounts? Also, what are cost implications of the inclusion of a full colour, glossy printed exhibition guide within the admission price? I can imagine that, with advertising revenue taken into account, the extra cost of a large print run may not be excessive but it does feel like a very generous offering.

Finally, I assume that the Robin Park management are aware of the financial precariousness of the show and that the local Council etc and any other potential sources of funding and sponsorship have been explored? 
I apologise if all the above is stating the obvious or is full of flaws and I wish you well with your plans for next year. 

[Eaton]

Thank you for your interest and comments. Most of the points you raise are very valid and many are under consideration. A smaller show in terms of layouts is almost inevitable in order to keep costs under control. However this year the total would have been under 30 without the contribution from the OO9 Society who provided their layouts for exhibition at a very generous cost. So we maybe are looking at 25 in 2023. How do we continue to attract layouts previously unseen in the North West and of exceptional quality, that is the big question as they may not come cheap.

Obviously we would have to trim costs. Having the exhibition in one hall would not save us money as the Centre rents the venue at a fixed rate regardless of whether we use one or both Halls.

Demonstrations we see as an important part of the show as they promote the hobby and give advise to future participants. The Society Stands in most cases are revenue earners as they take adverts in the Guidebook.

The free Guidebook is something we may consider and we may well have to charge for it next year.

As to a family discount, I would have thought that free entry for children should be enough of an incentive.

When all things are considered there are only two major revenue streams, trade stand rentals and paying customers. Unfortunately both of these seem to be contracting which contributes to a budgeting nightmare, as someone has already said 'Who would be an Exhibition Manager'. Trying to gauge the success or otherwise of the trade participation is always difficult but I would be very surprised if this years exhibition contributed to an increase in traders next year. 

I was speaking to our Exhibition Manager this morning and he was more than a little disheartened as he felt that 2022 was in layout terms the best exhibition he had produced. That it did not produce the required attendance he found perplexing. He did except that there were circumstances that did not help, the rail strike, the fact that we could not gain permission to put our banners up in the Grand Arcade and by the Fire Station at Saddle Junction but even so he was not a Happy Bunny. 

As you can imagine there are some big decisions that lie ahead.

[airnimal]

As someone who was attending as a demonstrator for the S7 group on my own,  i have always enjoyed being at the Wigan show. I paid my own hotel cost for the Saturday night and paid for my own petrol and food throughout the weekend. My hotel cost me £40 for the night in the centre of town without breakfast.  It wasn't luxurious but simple and clean with a good bed and was more than adequate for my needs. I could claim the petrol expenses from the S7 group but because it is only a small society I will pay my own way as my contribution to our hobby. 

 

As to the show itself I was slightly disappointed that the trades stands was lacking a paint / tool / parts supplier like Eilleen's or similar.  Other than that I had no grumbles.

[ardbealach]

May I add some comments on Wigan 22 please.  There was certainly a good selection of layouts all to a high standard which we have all come to accept from the Wigan team.   

 

Feedback from our team of exhibitors at the 22 show was that we were disappointed that the large hall exhibitor tea corner had disappeared as the show progressed.  This made it a long long walk for our mugs of tea on the Sunday to the smaller hall and passed all the visitors.    And as many exhibitors know we only get through the day with frequent cuppas.

 

Maybe the caterer could be asked to provide sandwiches in sealed triangular packages and crisps and Wigan pies (at a reasonable price) for exhibitors traders and demonstrators with tickets to show who they are?  I would happily pay for them. (Alisdair)

 

. 

 

 

[APOLLO]

Just a note.

 

A few weeks before the Wigan show I attended (for the first time) the Leigh exhibition at The Sports Village Leigh (Also owned by Wigan Council). I would guess about half (or just under) the size of the Wigan show.  Entrance fee was a fiver on the door, and on the Sunday (11am on) there were plenty of attendees. Mostly model railways but also some interesting non railway modelling was on show. A mix of traders which were very good in terms of range / prices etc

 

The Wigan show was fine, worth £13.50 ? - Yes, for me, for others, families etc I cannot say. Again the traders were very good (range / prices etc) but I got the distinct impression (at Wigan) that many folks were not buying, and not too many viewing at some stands - (Sunday 11am - 2pm). I think there are problems here in the future (Traders).

 

The layouts were varied and interesting. Organisation was very good also.

 

Looking forward to next year - both shows.

 

Brit15

 

 

[Eaton]

If I mistakenly gave the impression that it was the cost of layouts, demonstrators and exhibits that was a problem, then this is not the case. These expenses are known and agreed upon beforehand. The imponderable is the number of visitors through the door. The lack of them has a direct effect on the profitability of the venture both for us and our trade support. In particular it becomes a problem for next year as it seems that quality layouts are not a significant draw to attract the required numbers in themselves. So the big question is were do we go from here.

 

The problem with the tea making facilities was that two of our tea urns gave up the ghost, again all I can do is apologize.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Eaton

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, Eaton said:

If I mistakenly gave the impression that it was the cost of layouts, demonstrators and exhibits that was a problem, then this is not the case. These expenses are known and agreed upon beforehand. The imponderable is the number of visitors through the door. The lack of them has a direct effect on the profitability of the venture both for us and our trade support. In particular it becomes a problem for next year as it seems that quality layouts are not a significant draw to attract the required numbers in themselves. So the big question is were do we go from here.

 

The problem with the tea making facilities was the giving up of the ghost of two of our tea urns, again all I can do is apologize.

Very sorry to hear about the numbers, I can understand it's a disappointment, not only for making the show pay but as a lack of reward for all the effort that must be involved in putting together such a good quality show, since I first went it's always been one I really look forward to. All I can say to help is that I intend to keep on visiting.

[woodenhead]

Did the rail strike impact the numbers, my plan originally was to get the train to Wigan, in the event I drove on the Sunday.

 

The strike on the GETs weekend stopped me travelling down to Milton Keynes.

 

It would be sad to lose the show as it is now, it certainly was a quality event, but if the visitor numbers don't stack up I wouldn't blame anyone if they have to reconsider the event next year.

 

It does feel that every year now there is a reason for low numbers at any show - covid recovery, train strikes, cost of living and next year there will be the impact of 12 months of very high energy and interest rates - and that will be the known issues, who knows what else the next 12 months might throw at us.

 

When do you need to decide?  Perhaps a year off again and see if the world settles down in 2023.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Personally, it was the rail strike wot did it for me, being a visitor to the country I didn't have a practical plan b.

 

Mike.

[Phatbob]

On 19/10/2022 at 15:12, Eaton said:

I was speaking to our Exhibition Manager this morning and he was more than a little disheartened as he felt that 2022 was in layout terms the best exhibition he had produced.

I'd agree on that point.  I thought the quality of the layouts on show was exceptional.

IMHO the lack of Saturday punters was largely, if not entirely, down to the rail strike.  The usual crowd of Anorakia Britannica on Saturday was noticably absent. :-(

As an exhibitor, no complaints, except the long walk in the rain to get in and out setting up on Friday.  Unfortunately, the exhibition manager can't book the weather! ;-)  Cest la vie.
Likewise, the sad demise of both the tea urns in our hall could not have been predicted.  The long walk to and from the other hall was a PITA, but what else can one do?  Life is nothing but an eturnal struggle with the law of s0d!

I'm already looking forward to bringing my other layout next year. :-)