Lathes & M/C tools

[ozzyo]

Dutch Master,

 

two bits that I forgot on my post about the SIEG lathe were a drill chuck and arbor £12.26 or super precision drill chuck and arbour £28.75. The other bit was a revolving (running) centre £23.95. The drill chuck is just about indispensable to my mind.

 

OzzyO.

[Horsetan]

At this point, I think it would be useful to have more of these lathe education demonstrations at exhibitions....... There was one exhibitor I used to see at ExpoEMs in years past who invited the public to have a go on his lathe under his instruction. He made it look so easy.

 

 

[gordon s]

Any recommendations of what to use to degrease my Proxxon lathe? They talk about using paraffin, but the days of Esso Blue or Pink being available at every corner garage have long gone. I can't find a local stockist so any alternatives?

 

Gunk?

[shipbadger]

Not Gunk as you need water to flush it off. Paraffin in now only available pre-packed but is still available in many garages and garden centres as it's used for greenhouse heaters, flame guns and Tilley lamps amongst other things. My local supermarket (Tuffins) actually sells two grades, normal and low-sulphur!

 

Tony Comber

[bertiedog]

Any recommendations of what to use to degrease my Proxxon lathe? They talk about using paraffin, but the days of Esso Blue or Pink being available at every corner garage have long gone. I can't find a local stockist so any alternatives?

 

Gunk?

Paraffin in definitely best, and acts as lubricate, leaving an oily trace that helps keeps rust at bay. Gunk will remove grease, but leaves the steel un-protected, so will need a rub over with light oil, or a spray with WD40 or equivalent.

 

White spirit will also work like paraffin, as will "low odour" lamp oil.

 

With due respect to safety, petrol may be used to initially clean down a machine to remove excess grease.

 

Best try to find a can of paraffin as a reserve, it makes a cutting lubricant for lathe work, and a bottle of paraffin/car oil mix is a good storage lubricant for most machine tools.

 

If white spirit or turps/turps substitute is used with cotton rags, make sure the rags are not bundled up semi wet, they should be carefully air dried, as they can spontaneously combust in extreme circumstances.

 

Stephen.

[alcazar]

I did mine with Wickes Paintbrush Cleaner, the blue stuff, and flushed with soapy water. This was AFTER stripping it all down, obviously. And none was used anywhere NEAR the motor.

 

Every part was then either greased on moving surfaces, or sprayed and rubbed over with WD40 on exposed surfaces.

[bertiedog]

 

Especially for Gordon, the Esso blue advert and song, care of Utube!!!!

 

Stephen.

[gordon s]

 

Especially for Gordon, the Esso blue advert and song, care of Utube!!!!

 

Stephen.

 

 

Great Stephen.....The old Esso blee dooler takes me back a bit!

[Pugsley]

DIY stores also stock paraffin - I got mine in Focus, around £4 for 5 litres IIRC.

 

HTH

[gordon s]

Thanks Martin. Found some in our local high street hardware store at £7.99....

 

Last time I bought paraffin it was two shillings a gallon from my local garage. Mind you petrol was only 4/11d a gallon (25p)....

 

Sadly your post re Focus was too late...

[Ralph R]

At this point, I think it would be useful to have more of these lathe education demonstrations at exhibitions....... There was one exhibitor I used to see at ExpoEMs in years past who invited the public to have a go on his lathe under his instruction. He made it look so easy.

 

At the Manchester show the first weekend in October we usually have demonstrations going on and they often show work being done on a lathe. These are frequently done by none other than our President Sid Stubbs who is usually delighted to share his knowledge with anyone who wants to ask. Can't guarantee he will be there this year though as he is now over 90 years old but come along and see.

 

(Spelling mistake corrected!)

[Pugsley]

Thanks Martin. Found some in our local high street hardware store at £7.99....

I take it that London prices have made their way out to you now, then. :blink:

[ozzyo]

Hello all, just ordered some reamers on Wednesday for a job that I am doing. Then on Thursday I was looking in the painting section of this group and came across this web address, http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/ (hope you dont mine me posting it on hear simonmooremk2) well bu99er me I could have saved more money . Worth having a look at for M/C tools etc. I'm off to have another look now and spend some more money (I must resist, Telfords not that far away, I must resist) .

 

OzzyO.

[richard_t]

Hello all, just ordered some reamers on Wednesday for a job that I am doing. Then on Thursday I was looking in the painting section of this group and came across this web address, http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/ (hope you dont mine me posting it on hear simonmooremk2) well bu99er me I could have saved more money . Worth having a look at for M/C tools etc. I'm off to have another look now and spend some more money (I must resist, Telfords not that far away, I must resist) .

 

OzzyO.

 

 

There good people to deal with as well: I got a 4MT dead center, and a few other bits a while back with very quick delivery.

[sagaguy]

There good people to deal with as well: I got a 4MT dead center, and a few other bits a while back with very quick delivery.

 

 

 

 

Not only quick delivery but you get a 5% discount loyalty card number for your next order!!!

 

Ray.

[ozzyo]

Sent off a question to RDGtools on Sat. about a collet chuck for my dividing head, can't do me a chuck to fit the B&S taper but can do me one for the 1 1/2"x 8tpi screw thread. Result.

 

Question time. Has any one fitted a digital read out to one of there lathes, or can point me to an idiots guide for how to fit one.

Do you have to cover them to keep the grot off them, things like that.

 

OzzyO.

[Adrian]

Sent off a question to RDGtools on Sat. about a collet chuck for my dividing head, can't do me a chuck to fit the B&S taper but can do me one for the 1 1/2"x 8tpi screw thread. Result.

 

Question time. Has any one fitted a digital read out to one of there lathes, or can point me to an idiots guide for how to fit one.

Do you have to cover them to keep the grot off them, things like that.

 

OzzyO.

Sorry not been following too closely - which lathe do you mean? If it's the Mini-lathe then "The Mini Lathe" book by Dave Fenner has chapter (10) on fitting DRO's and roller bearings to the mini-lathe. I bought my lathe with them fitted and they are all self contained so no cover required.

 

Adrian

[PhilH]

Question time. Has any one fitted a digital read out to one of there lathes, or can point me to an idiots guide for how to fit one.

Do you have to cover them to keep the grot off them, things like that.

OzzyO.

 

About fifteen years ago I had a DRO fitted to my Bantam - the guy enclosed the scales in aluminium box-like structures. Quite bulky but never had a minutes trouble with it, definitely money well spent in my opinion.

 

You can see the cross slide scale cover behind the lathe in this pic.

 

[ozzyo]

Sorry not been following too closely - which lathe do you mean? If it's the Mini-lathe then "The Mini Lathe" book by Dave Fenner has chapter (10) on fitting DRO's and roller bearings to the mini-lathe. I bought my lathe with them fitted and they are all self contained so no cover required.

 

Adrian

 

 

 

 

Hello Adrian,

 

its an Axminster BV20M, about the size or a Myford 7 series lathe. I'm thinking about one on the cross slide to start with, then maybe one for the longitudinal travel as you can get a twin reader from RDGtools. But to start with I think that I'll go for the cross slide to start with. That's if I can fit the blasted thing. Then it'll be the mill, then the Unimat, then me files.

Think that I'd better go and get me tables and go and have a lie down. I'll be OK now them nice men in the white coats have come for me.

 

OzzyO.

[gordon s]

Looking to tackle my first job on a lathe which will be trueing up Bachmann wheels on their stepped axles. I have used a lathe before, but that was 45 years ago at college, so will need a bit of refreshing on methods. The wheels are currently running at 14.4mm - 14.65mm B2B, so clearly are not square on the axle. Should they be pressed on with the lathe or do you turn them true after fitting to the axle?

 

Bachmann wheels are mounted on 3mm/2mm stepped axle with plastic insulating bushes.

 

I'd appreciate some suggestions as how to achieve this.

 

Nothing too difficult on this first exercise.....

[bertiedog]

It may be needed to replace the plastic bush with a new one, and re-drill the plastic with the wheel held in a split collet.

• You need acetal rod, perspex, either scrap or Ebay, or a rod of Tufnol, scrap or ebay, or any machinable plastic, but not poly, PVC or nylon. It must be a hard glueable plastic.
• Machine a bush to fit to the same as the Bachmann, and make it a light fit, and push home with epoxy glue.

Personally I use Tufnol rod, it is a resin reinforced with cloth, made under immense pressure, or I use Perspex rod, which is easy to machine in any lathe. It will look a bit rough at first, but is polished with fine paper etc to give a perfect finish.

Bakelite rod can also be used, but is difficult to come by these days, it is the best though. Bakelite is still made in sheets, and you can cut strips and turn the bush in the lathe from the rough blank.

 

 

The Split Collet:

 

Take a scrap piece of brass , steel, or aluminium, of a diameter that's bigger than the wheels tyre. Again scrap, or buy in, model engineer suppliers often sell offcuts, short bar ends.

 

Make the blank collet tube,(about 1/2" long), about 2mm bigger than the wheel on the O/D, and then slip it in the three jaw chuck, and mark number one jaw on the tube with a centre punch. You can leave a lip on the outer diameter to locate the collet hard against the jaws.

 

• Then drill out and bore the tube out till the tyre just enters the tube and seats against the flange.
• Don't forget the tyres may be straight or slight taper, and remove the collet edge where it touches the flange base, to get the best snug fit.
• You now have a collet that the wheels fit, and the collet is removed from the three jaw and sawn with a hacksaw down the length to slit one side.
• The collet can be re-fitted to the three jaw , with the reference punch mark for guidance.
• When the wheel is placed in the collet, the three jaw chuck jaws crush the collet, and grip the wheel very accurately indeed, should be in the range of half to one thou. Do not over do the pressure, the grip is usually very good, as it is so custom sized.

The wheel can then be centre drilled, and drilled through, undersized, and reamed to finish. If you don't have reamers for the size, then proceed with a series of expanding drill sizes, it is nearly as accurate.

 

• The size should be a good light push fit on the axle, and then retain with Loctite, superglue or epoxy.
• Prepare one sides wheels on axles, and then put in frames, and gently press home and glue, doing the quartering by any method, there are dozens.

A couple of vital points with Bachmann and all Chinese wheels, they are plated Mazak, and do not machine away the chrome finish. The back of the wheel could be machined, but usually no need. The flange could be thinned, but you are exposing the soft metal to wear and possible corrosion.

Some un-spoked wheels may be brass, and more machinable and amenable to changes.

 

If you want to severely alter the Bachmann, then remove the entire tyre and replace with a stainless steel, or brass or nickel rim etc. Stainless steel, machine grade is the best, and more easily available.

 

Any other points just ask, the collet can be retained for more work on other wheels.

 

The same principles apply to all split collets, useful for armatures, axles and wheels or anything requiring accurate holding, and a final revelation...it do not matter a toss how accurate the three jaw is at all......

Stephen.

[dikitriki]

Hi Stephen

 

Can I please have your expert advice on the following?

 

I have a fantastic set of Allan Harris Scale 7 wheels (split axle) for an L&Y Aspinall 4-4-2 Highflyer, already turned and finished. The problem is that I model in 'normal' 32 mm finescale. I want to use the wheels (I build my turnouts to 31.5mm and do not envisage any problems with the S7 profiles on my trackwork), but I do not have the first idea how to go about reducing the back-to-back, or more properly I suppose, how to hold the piece safely so I can do what I want to in my lathe (Peatol/Taig).

 

The 2 drivers and the trailing axle are the usual Harris telescopic axle and taper pin, while the bogie wheels are glued in one end and screwed in the other. I also have to consider retaining the quartering, but that is another issue.

 

Thank you

 

Richard Lambert

[Sandy Harper]

Hi Stephen

 

Can I please have your expert advice on the following?

 

I have a fantastic set of Allan Harris Scale 7 wheels (split axle) for an L&Y Aspinall 4-4-2 Highflyer, already turned and finished. The problem is that I model in 'normal' 32 mm finescale. I want to use the wheels (I build my turnouts to 31.5mm and do not envisage any problems with the S7 profiles on my trackwork), but I do not have the first idea how to go about reducing the back-to-back, or more properly I suppose, how to hold the piece safely so I can do what I want to in my lathe (Peatol/Taig).

 

The 2 drivers and the trailing axle are the usual Harris telescopic axle and taper pin, while the bogie wheels are glued in one end and screwed in the other. I also have to consider retaining the quartering, but that is another issue.

 

Thank you

 

Richard Lambert

 

Richard

Can I suggest that you return them to Alan who I am sure will have the necessary jigs to enable the back to back to be altered. He is a very helpful chap and it would be a shame to mess them up.

 

Regards

Sandy

[dikitriki]

Richard

Can I suggest that you return them to Alan who I am sure will have the necessary jigs to enable the back to back to be altered. He is a very helpful chap and it would be a shame to mess them up.

 

Regards

Sandy

 

Hi Sandy

 

I might still return them, (though I didn't get them from him, so he might not want the job), but in any event, I'd like to know how to go about it.

 

Yours

 

Richard

[bertiedog]

I am not sure of the exact nature of the Harris axle, but was told that it has a taper end similar to the Protofour 4mm wheel system.****see important end note as well as following notes.

 

I am assuming that these are the cast iron wheels, mounted on tapers, and with a split axle, of which I have no exact details to hand.

• But it will be well within the capabilities of the Peatol Lathe, as long as collets or split collets are used to mount the axle for machining the end. The Peatol may be small, but it is accurate.

A four jaw chuck could also be used, or a three jaw(soft jaw) with freshly machined bored faces.

• The axle stub would have to be gripped true, and checked with a dial gauge in the case of the four jaw.

With no four jaw the best would be a tube split collet made in the lathe, a short brass collar (or steel), fitted to the three jaw, centre drilled , reamed and then removed and slit down one side with a saw. The reamer is run through to clean the collet.

• The collet is replaced in the position it was machined in, by marking the collet before removal.
• The axle will now enter the hole, and the pressure from the three jaw grips the axle and it will run true.

 

However now comes the problem, and it's big, duplicating the taper further up the axle stub to reduce the back to back.

 

• The taper must be measured and the tool slide set to match exactly and this is skilled tool setting.

If you have a dial gauge it can be used to zero on the base, (large end), of the taper, and then move the dial gauge along with the top tool slide, taking a reading at the outer end, when the readings are the same the taper is the same and the toolslide will duplicate the cone.

 

This is precision work on even an O gauge axle, and a test piece would be made to use as a plug gauge in the wheel to check accuracy.

 

In practice the taper would be cut "fat", and the taper adjusted with abrasive blocks to get it to fit to perfection. Very hard oak stripwood is used with diamond paste to grind the cone. You may get away with it with very fine emery paper on a block.

 

If this sounds difficult, it is at first, but is practical with a bit of experience. The method works with any taper mounted wheel. If the taper has a flat for quartering, it is best the machine the cone first, and then hand file the flat, testing the fit as you go.

 

Studiolith used to make P4 wheels with cone taper ends, they had to get a Swiss clockmaker to make the axles and cones to the exacting standards to get the wheel to grip on the taper at the fully home position.

 

Presumably the Harris is similar, and easier to work with as it's larger.

 

****After all of this I have the feeling that the easier way would be to turn a bit off the ends in the middle of the axle to shorten them, since you say that they are split axles. This leaves the cones intact, and you just machine away enough to adjust.

 

Stephen.