Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge

[thegreenhowards]

Last night I gave a workshop at the club on airbrush weathering and used my class 27 as the Guinea pig. So it is now finished and ready for service on Glenfinnan.  
 

 

 

I noticed this morning that the black has leaked out of the radiator grill in the second photo. I’m trying to convince myself that this is a prototypical oil leak, but I suspect I may need to spray over it. It welcome people’s thoughts.

 

Andy

[BoD]

Sorry, but I’ve never seen one with an ‘oil stain’ that colour in that location.  If anything it is usually just the sleeper/brake dust type grime that has washed down.

 

Having said that, it only takes one photograph or someone else who has seen one  …

Edited April 7, 2023 by BoD

[young37215]

I had a look in a couple of class 27 books and did not see any with this sort of stain. Most of the oil spils that were visible came from the roof and cant rail grills which was why the were so prone to catching fire. The loco looks good otherwise, a few minutes with a cotton bud and some thinners will tidy the spill up?

[thegreenhowards]

Yes, thanks Rob and BoD. Sadly you’re confirming what I already knew deep down but was trying to ignore! I think I will need to remove it but will then end up with something too clean, so will try dry brushing some frame dirt on.

[thegreenhowards]

On 03/04/2023 at 22:39, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks Jeremy,

 

I’d come to the same conclusion and have invested in the Intentio kit. Not sure when I’ll get round to building it as I intend to be outside while the weather’s good.

 

Regards

 

Andy

In Devon on holiday today and it’s been wet on and off which has given me time to build my Intentio LNER concrete platelayers hut.

 

It went together very easily - only took a good hour. Now I need to paint it. I think the ‘planks’ should be concrete and the roof seems to be black. Does anyone know what material the roof was made of or have any good photos of how they weather?

 

Andy

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

In Devon on holiday today and it’s been wet on and off which has given me time to build my Intentio LNER concrete platelayers hut.

 

It went together very easily - only took a good hour. Now I need to paint it. I think the ‘planks’ should be concrete and the roof seems to be black. Does anyone know what material the roof was made of or have any good photos of how they weather?

 

Andy

Andy, have a look here:

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Andy, have a look here:

 

 

Thanks very useful. They suggest a black gungy roof - perhaps a weathered roofing felt?

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve been working on the landscaping for Glenfinnan. I wanted something lightweight and water resistant in case it rains while it’s out in the garden. A friend from my club suggested a fibreglass car body repair kit with resin spread over chicken wire. So I thought I’d give that a go even though it’s quite expensive. The result is a very tough a lightweight structure, but what you can see here cost me £23 and it was horrible to work with. The resin smells disgusting and made me cough and I’ve still got bits of fibre glass in my fingers despite wearing gloves.

 

I’ve got about 4 -5 times this much to do and I won’t be buying any more. 
 

So I needed a plan B. I’ve tried mod roc plaster bandage over the chicken wire. This is easier, cheaper and faster, but less strong, a bit heavier and will need waterproofing. This photo shows the chicken wire being attached (with a staple gun).

 

and this shows the chicken wire covered with mod roc (one overlapping layer). I then ran out and ordered some more as I think I’ll need two or three layers.

 

I’ve also tried polystyrene blocks cut with a hot wire cutter and then covered with mod roc. This seems to work well where I have a solid base underneath (I.e. above the platform, but less so on the open frame bits. Here is the polystyrene part covered.

 

 

I think I’ll paint the mod roc with a paint/PVA mix to seal it and I may put expanded foam underneath for added strength.

 

More progress soon.

 

Andy

[Andy Keane]

Andy

@mallaig1983 pointed me to your thread as you had been using fibreglass and I had mentioned trying it on my build of Helston.

First I have much enjoyed reading your thread and admire the determination to build a full sized station in 7mm - I am working in 4mm and end up with an 18 foot long station and that is bad enough. Your model is looking really nice. I have only ridden that line once but it is fun.

I have been worrying about how messy fibreglass would be and hearing your comments think I will tread carefully. I am currently planning to use aluminium mesh fixed with resin then a much finer fibreglass layer over the top.

Luckily I only need to do a single embankment end as I have done the rest in foam painted with “foamcoat” which is a kind of thick paint that creates a hard shell - maybe it might be useful on your build?

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

Andy,

 

Firstly, thanks for your kind words on my efforts. 
 

As I said above, I won’t be using the fibreglass again, but I think you’re plan to use it over aluminium mesh might work better than my using the chicken wire and a layer of fibreglass as the base. I’m finding the mod roc works well. It’s still messy but can be cleaned up easily and doesn’t smell or leave splinters in my fingers! I have found that three layers of it is pretty strong but I’m also trying spraying foam in underneath - I only did this yesterday and it seems to work but hasn’t fully hardened yet -I will report back next week.

 

I do have some rock face to do next which will form the scenic break at the Fort William end as it conveniently crops up on both sides of the line just near the end of the headshunt - see below for one side, it is reflected to a lessor extent on the other side. I think I will try a woodland scenics shaper sheet for this. But any other ideas are welcome.

 

 

Andy

 

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve started populating the cuttings with shrubs, I think they were mainly gorse and Rhododendron. My attempt at gorse is in the foreground. The taller bushes behind will be Rhody when I get some magenta scatter for the flowers (I’m setting the layout in late spring) and further along are bare shrubs waiting for foliage to be added. The rubberised horse hair will need trimming. Comments welcome.

 

 

 

[PaulRhB]

On 03/05/2023 at 21:12, thegreenhowards said:

think I’ll paint the mod roc with a paint/PVA mix to seal it and I may put expanded foam underneath for added strength

I hadn’t realised you were leaving it outside sometimes 🫠

Sealing the mid TOC with several layers of something like Sandtex exterior paint might help but I suspect your main issue may be the vegetation retaining moisture and attacking the materials if not the glue. 
Great idea and interesting to see how you deal with full scenics outside the cozy shed or room! 😀

[thegreenhowards]

I’ll also be interested (😬) to see how the layout deals with being outside. The scenic boards will only be outside for short periods in dry weather and will be stored in the garage in between. The board I showed is the one with fibre glass hillsides. The others may need more protection but I was hoping waterproof PVA would seal them.

 

Andy

[PaulRhB]

6 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

The others may need more protection but I was hoping waterproof PVA would seal them.

Sandtex might be cheaper and is paint so colours the landforms too, it forms a skin so try a tester pot on a sample of modroc on polystyrene and leave it outside for a few weeks and then cut it open? 

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks for the suggestion Paul. I’m not sure I have the patience for a controlled experiment, but I’ve bought a couple of testor pots and will see how it works on as many boards as they will cover.

[thegreenhowards]

I have formed the hillsides on the Fort William end board today and applied mod roc to the next board as well. The route blasted through a rock cutting just east of Glenfinnan and I formed this from Woodland Scenics shaper sheet as shown below.

 

Here are the two boards with the plaster drying

 

 

Andy

 

 

[mallaig1983]

It’s coming along rather nicely Andy.

[thegreenhowards]

I’ve been concentrating on one board to try and get it finished scenically and I think I’m nearly there. Here is the bogies from the station end graced by a lovely Primo larch tree which is a distinctive feature of the prototype photos.

 

 

At the other end, the Intentio lineside hut finishes it off nicely.

 

 

In other news, I have resolved how I’m going to do point and signal control. I was serving on the bring and buy stand at the Gauge O Guild Kempton Park show last Saturday and this rather lovely lever frame arrived. So I snapped it up before it even went on offer to the public.

 

 

The levers are all functioning signal frame levels - just like the real thing! On the business end there is a bank of DPDT switches which can control Dapol signals or Tortoise point motors.
 

 

I’d like them to control my DCC Cobalts, but I may have to swap them out for Tortoises unless anyone can think of a way. My plan is to use the original signal diagram for Glenfinnan as below and use the correct numbered levers. What 6,7&8 did, I have no idea!

 

I intend to bury the lever frame behind the hillside, roughly where the grey patch is on this photo.

 

 

By the way this shows the hillside painted in Sandtex as recommended by Paul. I bought two testor pots in light brown and grey and they’ve done three boards with a tiny bit left over.

 

Andy

Edited May 25, 2023 by thegreenhowards
Typos

[David Bell]

That is all looking brilliant. 

[St Enodoc]

7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

a lovely Primo larch tree

No. 1, the larch...

 

7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

this rather lovely lever frame arrived.

Very nice.

7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I’d like them to control my DCC Cobalts

If they're Cobalt iP Digital then you won't find it easy. Any other variants should work in exactly the same way as your Tortoises.

 

7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

My plan is to use the original signal diagram for Glenfinnan as below and use the correct numbered levers. What 6,7&8 did, I have no idea!

Probably spares, left over from an earlier incarnation of the track layout.

[young37215]

Impressive work, adding the scenery transforms the appearance. 

 

A Flickr picture of the signal box diagram indicates that 6,7 and 8 were spare.  Robert Dey, @Corrour on RMWeb, may be able to add more to the debate.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2023 by young37215

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks Rob, I don’t think I’ll match your scenic abilities but I’m pleased that it’s starting to look like the prototype from a suitable distance. I’ve struggled with the subtleties of replicating rhododendrons and gorse,

 

As for the signalling, it looks 6,7&8 were spare for future expansion which never happened. I may use them for the fiddle yard.

 

I had always wondered about the slightly perverse looking numbering, but having seen your lower photo, it all makes sense. That’s quite neat pulling 5,4,3,2,1 in one direction and 11,12,13,14,15 in the other. I assume 4 and 12 were facing point locks?

 

I find it surprising that point 10 was controlled by the signal box, but the point by the dock was not - presumably a point lever locally situated. Any idea why that would be?

 

Would 9 be a shunt signal back onto the down platform? If so would shunts into the dock be hand signalled? I’ll look up Robert Dey in due course, thanks for the tip.

 

Andy

[Jeremy Cumberland]

It was common for lever frames to have spares, whether expansion was envisaged or not.

 

The lever numbering is not what I am used to for a passing loop on a single line, and I am a little surprised about what appears to be a regular need to restore 4 normal with 3 and 5 pulled, and 12 normal with 11 and 13 pulled. Perhaps one of our signalling experts can comment. 4 and 12 are FPLs, and they only lock the points normal (for arriving trains). They aren't used for when the points are reversed - this is the meaning of the note "one hole in stretcher bar".

 

If trains are crossing, then perhaps the FPLs 4 and 12 were pulled when each train was accepted, or perhaps they were only pulled immediately before clearing the home signal (it is clear that pulling the lever locks the points - different conventions were used by different railway companies, and in other places the lever was normal when the points were locked). The first train to arrive would be brought to a stand at the home signal, which would then be cleared. The signalman will collect the token from the train. The signalman then restores the home signal to danger (and doubtless returns the FPL lever to normal immediately afterwards), places the token in the instrument and bells out of section. They will then request a token for the other train, and when they have got it will pull 5-4-3-2 or 11-12-13-14 as the case may be, omitting the FPL (4 or 12) if this has already been pulled, and only pulling the distant (1 or 15) if the train is not yet in sight.

 

When the second train arrives, the signalman collects the token, restores the distant to danger (if pulled), restores the home to danger, and doubtless also restores the FPL lever to normal - this sequence is 1-2-4 or 15-14-12, and this is where the "push between" (if that is a phrase) occurs, since 3 and 5 or 11 and 13 will still be pulled. After returning the token to the instrument, belling out of section and getting a new token, the signalman can now set the points and signal for the first train to depart (11-13 or 5-3).

 

10 has to be controlled from the signal box since it allows trains from a yard to pass onto a running line. The other set of points doesn't affect the running line in any way, and will be operated by the train crew.

 

9, being a stop signal, might be cleared for both positions of 10, otherwise trains entering the yard would have to pass it at danger, possibly repeatedly if there was any shunting to be done between the two sidings. Entry from the down line to the headshunt would be by handsignal from the signalbox (with 5 and 10 reversed). When the train was in the headshunt, 10 would be set normal. If 9 can be pulled with 10 normal, then I expect 9 would be left clear till the shunting was done and the train wanted to come out of the headshunt again. Of course, if there wasn't any shunting taking place in the yard, 9 would be left at danger.

[thegreenhowards]

Jeremy,

 

Many thanks for your comprehensive reply. I’m still trying to get my head around all of the points you make, not being a signalling expert myself. 
 

One question for now, if I may. What is a stop signal? I.e. how does it differ from a shunt signal or home signal? I’ve no idea what it would look like and don’t remember seeing it in any of the photos I’ve collected of Glenfinnan. 
 

Regards

 

Andy

[Jeremy Cumberland]

6 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

One question for now, if I may. What is a stop signal? I.e. how does it differ from a shunt signal or home signal?

A stop signal can display a stop aspect. Home signals are stop signals, but distants aren't, because they can only show clear and caution.

 

Shunting signals can be either yellow or red. A red shunting signal at danger means stop, just the same as a home or starting signal at danger, and can't be passed without authority (in shunting, this is usually a handsignal from the signalman). A yellow shunting signal can be passed at caution, and they are common in situations such as yours, but I don't think they were universal. Some regions used them, and others did not. The signal is cleared for exiting a yard onto the main line, but is at caution when the points are set between the headshunt and the yard, so trains shunting the yard can pass it without reference to the signalbox. Here is an excellent descripton: https://signalbox.org/signals/shunting-signals/

 

Incidentally, I found a picture of Glenfinnan showing both FPL levers pulled, which rather suggests the signalman left both points locked except when they needed to be changed for departing trains: