Glenfinnan Station in O Gauge

[young37215]

10 is just about visible under the home signal in the pictures below. 

 

 

 

 

An alternative view can be seen is this 1984 shot although it remains difficult to get a clear picture of the actual signal. It also shows a pile of old sleepers which, judging by the new ballast, were changed in the fairly recent past.

 

 

Whilst searching I came across this 1987 engineering train just nort of Glenfinnan station. A little after my time line but something others may choose to replicate.

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks Jeremy,

 

It’s becoming clearer now. So in photos, I should be looking for a small ground based stop disk on the headshunt near the point controlling access back to the mainline? How would moves onto the headshunt from the down platform have been signalled?

 

As for your photo, a useful reference but it rather spoils the 5,4,3,2,1 elegance!

 

I’m off to Railex now, so won’t post again until this evening. If anyone’s going, let me know.

 

Andy

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I hope you enjoyed Railex. I'd so like to see Kensington Addison Road.

 

The modern signalling diagram posted earlier in this thread just shows an ordinary red disc signal, but the photo of the Black 5 shows something else entirely. Functionally, it is doubtless the same thing and shows only stop and proceed, but exactly what it is and how it works I would not like to guess at. The Black 5 picture also, along with the photo of the lever frame, gives a very strong clue as to operation. As I mentioned before, I wasn't sure whether the signal would clear for both positions of points 10. The plate at the bottom of lever 9 (which doubtless has the numbers 5 and 10 written on it, although it isn't quite clear enough to read) implies that signal 9 can only be cleared when the road is set for exiting from the headshunt into the station (levers 5 and 10 have to be pulled). This is supported by the Black 5 photograph, showing excellent visibility from the signalbox, and so movements from the headshunt towards the yard were doubtless hand signalled past the shunting signal by the signalman showing a green flag from the signalbox. This is also how movements into the headshunt from the platform were signalled, although it is also possible that the signalman just shouted across to the loco crew.

[03060]

9 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I hope you enjoyed Railex. I'd so like to see Kensington Addison Road.

 

The modern signalling diagram posted earlier in this thread just shows an ordinary red disc signal, but the photo of the Black 5 shows something else entirely. Functionally, it is doubtless the same thing and shows only stop and proceed, but exactly what it is and how it works I would not like to guess at. The Black 5 picture also, along with the photo of the lever frame, gives a very strong clue as to operation. As I mentioned before, I wasn't sure whether the signal would clear for both positions of points 10. The plate at the bottom of lever 9 (which doubtless has the numbers 5 and 10 written on it, although it isn't quite clear enough to read) implies that signal 9 can only be cleared when the road is set for exiting from the headshunt into the station (levers 5 and 10 have to be pulled). This is supported by the Black 5 photograph, showing excellent visibility from the signalbox, and so movements from the headshunt towards the yard were doubtless hand signalled past the shunting signal by the signalman showing a green flag from the signalbox. This is also how movements into the headshunt from the platform were signalled, although it is also possible that the signalman just shouted across to the loco crew.

An enlargement from David Christie's  Black 5 photo if it helps.

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, 03060 said:

An enlargement from David Christie's  Black 5 photo if it helps.

 

I think it's one of these:

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/signals/gs01/

[thegreenhowards]

Thanks for all your replies yesterday. Railex was very good. It’s always been a cut above the rest in terms of the quality of layouts and traders, but I think this year was even better than other I remember. The only criticisms were the heat and catering, not directly the fault of the organisers. I lasted until 1630 despite intending to leave earlier to get home for the championship play off final, but I had to admit defeat at that stage from fear of heat exhaustion!

 

Standout layouts for me were:

Charwellton into the ‘80s, a what if GC main line roundy roundy with diesels and credible formations all weathered to a uniform high standard.

Grindly Brook, A large 0 gauge transition era roundy roundy nicely signalled and scenicised and excellent reliable operations. Again, good weathering, but not as consistent as Charwelton.

Hope under Dinmore, pre grouping LNWR/GWR joint with unusual stock well executed.

Wendover, 1920s, GCML with interesting rolling stock of varied ages - some X04 type growlers, but again lovely to see mainly kit built locos and stock.

And last, but certainly not least, Addison Road. 1920s Kensington Olympia under its old name with cross London trains and wonderful scratch built Oerlikon electric units which actually arc in the third rai!  Jeremy you must get yourself to see this masterpiece. It was my third time but I was still transfixed. The LBSCR I3 with lined LNWR coaches on the sunny south express is an absolute joy.

 

 

The traders were also very good. No box shifters and only one selling overpriced ‘tat’. The majority were cottage industry types selling interesting modelling products and really interesting to talk to. I spent too much as normal. For Glenfinnan, it was mainly more scenic materials including heather clumps from WWS which you’ll be seeing shortly. And some bouncing signal servo mechanisms from Dingo servo mounts for the two lattice signals I built before Dapol brought theirs out.

 

So by the time I got home from that and watched the play off final before I found out the result (I’d taken the precaution of recording it), it was too late to think about this thread so I’ll respond in my next post.

 

Andy

Edited May 28, 2023 by thegreenhowards
Adding photos

[thegreenhowards]

Ok, back to Glenfinnan.
 

Rob, thanks for your photos, I was hoping you might have the answer in your fantastic archives. I had seen and wondered about  the little post in your 37 photos, but dismissed it as a milepost is similar as it looked too rectangular. However, the Black 5 picture is just what I needed and @03060’s blow up makes it even more clear that this is the beast I’m after. Thanks to John for the detective work - if only Andrew from Wizard had been there yesterday like he used to be! Looks like I’ll have to put a postal order in as I also need a finial which I seem to have lost from his kits of the lattice home signals. But I do hate paying postage!

 

Thanks also to Rob for the engineering train photo. I allow myself up to RETB introduction, so 1987 is just OK. Are they concrete sleepers in the first two opens? I have bought some Peco individualay ones to allow me to create such a load in my Turbots based on a photo which Al Tait came up with on the MIOG group.

 

Andy

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

12 hours ago, Jeremy Cumberland said:

I hope you enjoyed Railex. I'd so like to see Kensington Addison Road.

 

The modern signalling diagram posted earlier in this thread just shows an ordinary red disc signal, but the photo of the Black 5 shows something else entirely. Functionally, it is doubtless the same thing and shows only stop and proceed, but exactly what it is and how it works I would not like to guess at. The Black 5 picture also, along with the photo of the lever frame, gives a very strong clue as to operation. As I mentioned before, I wasn't sure whether the signal would clear for both positions of points 10. The plate at the bottom of lever 9 (which doubtless has the numbers 5 and 10 written on it, although it isn't quite clear enough to read) implies that signal 9 can only be cleared when the road is set for exiting from the headshunt into the station (levers 5 and 10 have to be pulled). This is supported by the Black 5 photograph, showing excellent visibility from the signalbox, and so movements from the headshunt towards the yard were doubtless hand signalled past the shunting signal by the signalman showing a green flag from the signalbox. This is also how movements into the headshunt from the platform were signalled, although it is also possible that the signalman just shouted across to the loco crew.

Jeremy,

 

Many thanks for that description. I think it all makes sense now. I’m hoping that when I buy the kit of the ground signal it will have some prototype notes on how it worked!

 

I wonder whether I’ll need to pack a green flag with the layout exhibition kit to enable truly prototypical operations!

Regards

 

Andy

 

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Jeremy,

 

Many thanks for that description. I think it all makes sense now. I’m hoping that when I buy the kit of the ground signal it will have some prototype notes on how it worked!

 

I wonder whether I’ll need to pack a green flag with the layout exhibition kit to enable truly prototypical operations!

Regards

 

Andy

 

I think it was Jack "Ortogo" Dugdale, years ago, who modelled a bobby on a lever so that when you pulled the handle (or energised a solenoid) he leaned out of the box window holding a flag.

[thegreenhowards]

23 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

I think it was Jack "Ortogo" Dugdale, years ago, who modelled a bobby on a lever so that when you pulled the handle (or energised a solenoid) he leaned out of the box window holding a flag.

That’s a lovely idea, but you’ll understand if I get the basics working first!

[thegreenhowards]

I took advantage of a quieter day today to try setting the whole layout up in the garden. This is the first tim3 since I built the hills. These three boards are looking rather bare, but at least they have their protective sandtex coat on. They are noticeably heavier than last time I got them out!
 

 

The other three boards look a bit more finished, but still plenty of work to do. Next steps will be rhodi on the hill behind the platform waiting shelter, a quick ‘flock over’ of the other three boards and getting the circuit round the  garden complete.

 

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

A momentous day yesterday as I ran the first train round the complete circuit in the garden. I had to wire up some of the new boards first, but the modular system I developed last year worked quite well and I just had to put the boards together in a different order. No video yet as I need a second pair of hands for that - hopefully later this week.

 

The loco chosen for the honour of the first circuit was a new purchase. Rails reduced the price of several O gauge diesels recently which almost tempted me, but they then gave an extra 5% off a couple of weekends ago, and that tipped the balance. So I have a new green FYE class 27. I notice that as of today, Hattons have dropped the price to £442, so I may invest in another!

 

I’ve numbered this one 5392 based on this photo from Flickr at Fort Bill. I had to choose an ‘English’ one as Heljan have only done these in O gauge and I didn’t fancy cutting the cab side open for a tablet catcher recess. 5392 arrived at ED in 1967.

 

 

 

Now I notice that this one has yellow cabside windows whereas mine has white. Can anyone advise me on when the change from white to yellow took place? I’d like to keep mine white, but if I have to paint it yellow, then I’d better do it before I do the weathering.

 

Andy

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

While browsing Rails’ sale, I also noticed that they had reduced some 31s to £285 which seemed too good to be true for 3kg of lovely loco. So I succumbed to one of these as well which I’ve numbered as 31439 ‘North Yorkshire Moors Railway’.

 



 

Now I can’t see any possible justification for one of these at Glenfinnan - I think there were only five and during the early ‘90s - rather later than my time period ending in 1987.  But if anyone can find a justification (perhaps a railtour?), you’d make me very happy! Failing that it will be a rule 1 engine for silly days.

 

Andy

 

 

 

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I now expect to see a Deltic. Okay, so I don't think one ever made it to Mallaig, but 55021 made a couple of runs from Edinburgh to Oban in 1981 on an ordinary Merrymaker excursion. As I recall, it was as much operating expediency as the opportunity for a jolly. The coaches were Mark 3s, and there wasn't a wide choice of ETH locomotives with RA5.

[thegreenhowards]

Hmmm, now I do love Deltics. If one of the new Heljan jobs dropped to a similiar price, I might just be tempted, but as a rule I tend to try to resist such flights of fancy. As nobody makes RTR Mk 3s in O gauge and kit building such a rake would take a long time and be very expensive, I think that any Deltic would have to appear on a service train or maybe the SRPS railtour set if I ever get round to building that.

 

Andy

[David Bell]

17 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 So I have a new green FYE class 27. I notice that as of today, Hattons have dropped the price to £442, so I may invest 

 

 

 

You can't have too many Class 27's!

[PaulRhB]

18 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Now I notice that this one has yellow cabside windows whereas mine has white. Can anyone advise me on when the change from white to yellow took place? I’d like to keep mine white, but if I have to paint it yellow, then I’d better do it before I do the weathering.

They went yellow when they painted them rail blue in general , so in green white is usually right. Trying to find a date as to when they did that is going to be dependent on photos as it must have been done locally I guess 😀

Edited June 7, 2023 by PaulRhB

[37Oban]

18 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

While browsing Rails’ sale, I also noticed that they had reduced some 31s to £285 which seemed too good to be true for 3kg of lovely loco. So I succumbed to one of these as well which I’ve numbered as 31439 ‘North Yorkshire Moors Railway’.

 



 

Now I can’t see any possible justification for one of these at Glenfinnan - I think there were only five and during the early ‘90s - rather later than my time period ending in 1987.  But if anyone can find a justification (perhaps a railtour?), you’d make me very happy! Failing that it will be a rule 1 engine for silly days.

 

Andy

 

 

 

Hi,

I believe a 31 was trialled in Scotland in the late 50's, and on the Highland mainline.  I seem to recall it didn't stay very long before returning south.  After that they were very infrequent visitors to Scotland, the odd one venturing as far as Edinburgh, even in sectorisation days, and photos are as rare as hen's teeth!  I've seen a b&w one of one on a train at Dunbar but for the life of I can't remember where I saw it!  As for railtours, well, I suppose it's possible but I don't know of any.  That's not say it's not possible, the Strathspew Railway has an operational one, D6869/31327, on it's books, so yu never know!

 

Roja

[Softvark]

13 minutes ago, 37Oban said:

I believe a 31 was trialled in Scotland in the late 50's, and on the Highland mainline.  I seem to recall it didn't stay very long before returning south. 

 

There's a picture of a 31 at Mallaig on the Railscot website - 

Railscot - Class 31 at Mallaig

[37Oban]

2 hours ago, Softvark said:

 

There's a picture of a 31 at Mallaig on the Railscot website - 

Railscot - Class 31 at Mallaig

Hi,

 

well, every day is a learning day!   I hadn't known it had made it to Mallaig on it's tour!  Cracking photo!

 

Roja

[thegreenhowards]

3 hours ago, Softvark said:

 

There's a picture of a 31 at Mallaig on the Railscot website - 

Railscot - Class 31 at Mallaig

I’ve seen a picture of one on the Glenfinnan viaduct but definitely back in the green era - maybe the same one although I don’t remember it being a skinhead.

[mallaig1983]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

I’ve seen a picture of one on the Glenfinnan viaduct but definitely back in the green era - maybe the same one although I don’t remember it being a skinhead.

im just looking at that photo now Andy. 5511 skinhead.

It’s in ‘West Highland Extension’ by John McGregor 

[thegreenhowards]

7 hours ago, David Bell said:

You can't have too many Class 27's!

Indeed, but should I go blue, 1970s style or early ‘60s green with SYE. The latter is the more attractive livery IMHO, but not correct without me adding a tablet catcher recess and sliding cab windows.

 

Andy

[thegreenhowards]

2 minutes ago, mallaig1983 said:

im just looking at that photo now Andy. 5511 skinhead.

It’s in ‘West Highland Extension’ by John McGregor 

OK, must be the same occasion then - about 35 years too early for my Regional Railways liveried example!

[03060]

22 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

OK, must be the same occasion then - about 35 years too early for my Regional Railways liveried example!

 

Class 31s on the WHL as noted mainly from Flickr images :-

 

D5511 (BR Green), 31106 (Waterman / Fragonset Railways Black), 31190 (seen in at least 4 different liveries), 31602 (at least 3 different liveries), 31128 (Waterman Railways), 31601 (Fragonset Black), 31452 (Fragonset), 31146 + 31166 (both Dutch.)

 

Obviously all bar 1 of these are in 'post' BR days and afraid that I haven't come across any Regional Railways one ... yet !

 

'Lines of the West Highlands' by Ian Lothian has several photos of these workings plus a few of preserved Deltics on railtours.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited June 8, 2023 by 03060
Correction.