Possible price increases?

[Bucoops]

37 minutes ago, McC said:

 

We also don't have loans, so no interest rate concerns impacting pricing.

For the investment you guys have put into it all, that is seriously impressive.

[Yarravalleymodeller]

28 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

For the investment you guys have put into it all, that is seriously impressive.

At the risk of starting an argument...

 

How much "investment" has actually been people preordering models that are a substantial distance from delivery. 

 

Lot of models promised and paid for at a lot of prices that seem just a tad unrealistic these days. 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

1 hour ago, McC said:

 

We also don't have loans, so no interest rate concerns impacting pricing.

If you have a bit spare time can you pop by Westminster as they clearly need some insight into how knowing what your doing and common sence are useful tools before you get to a position of running the country.Blame @Accurascale Franfor throwing you in at the deep end.......................i bet hes feet up with a glass of the black stuff having a chuckle.

[Bucoops]

40 minutes ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

At the risk of starting an argument...

 

How much "investment" has actually been people preordering models that are a substantial distance from delivery. 

 

Lot of models promised and paid for at a lot of prices that seem just a tad unrealistic these days. 

 

 

OK....

 

Trying not to sound like an Accurascale "Fanboi" but I believe that all the models I have put deposits down on are at least at the completed tooling stage (so huge investment made), and those I have fully paid for are at the next stage or two along, or I have in my hands.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Bucoops

[Islesy]

50 minutes ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

Lot of models promised and paid for at a lot of prices that seem just a tad unrealistic these days.

Sorry, I don't get what you are trying to say here? All of our announcements are backed up by engineering samples, so our customers can see that we have invested heavily in actually cutting metal and as we progress through each subsequent step in the manufacturing process, we take great pains in communicating progress (including where any delays may have occurred). This puts Accurascale (and Irish Railway Models) far ahead of many of our competitors, some of whom are only too glad to continue with 'vapourware' announcements.

[AY Mod]

1 hour ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

At the risk of starting an argument...

 

How much "investment" has actually been people preordering models that are a substantial distance from delivery. 

 

A lot of money has already been spent before you see anything. Your argument is over before anyone else reacts to your 'thoughts'.

[jjb1970]

Look on the bright side, shipping rates are imploding. Of course the reason they're imploding might not be positive, swings and roundabouts.

[McC]

1 hour ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

At the risk of starting an argument...

How much "investment" has actually been people preordering models that are a substantial distance from delivery. 

Lot of models promised and paid for at a lot of prices that seem just a tad unrealistic these days. 

 

Yes, customers can pay us £30 deposit, or instalments, or in full if they wish for preorders, and our retailer partners can order thousands of locos and not pay a bean until we deliver the stock,  but as above, we only launch once we have samples. In the case of say, a locomotive, that means we've done about a years research, paid for laser scans, drawings, site visits, surveys, CAD drawings, many interactions, and then tools to be cut, testing, injection tests run, PCB's designed and tested and sounds recorded for DCC, all before you see a sample. In real terms, a new tool loco represents around £300,000 + that has been spent BEFORE we launch and invite people to pay a modest deposit to secure their preference. 

 

Launching late is something we didn't do (well documented) on the Deltic 92, mk5, and even the 37 was a smidge early, but if you analyse the number of products delivered to customers in the few short years we are around, and bear in mind that everything we've launched we've already made investments of the order I mention above, you can see that we are neither 'funded' by customer payments, nor are any of the items substantial distances from delivery.

 

I hope that eases your concern.

Edited September 29, 2022 by McC

[Yarravalleymodeller]

14 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

A lot of money has already been spent before you see anything. Your argument is over before anyone else reacts to your 'thoughts'.

Three letters spring to mind

 

But let's not pick wounds but a few years old. Let's just hope people get their models. 

[Accurascale Fran]

6 minutes ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

Three letters spring to mind

 

But let's not pick wounds but a few years old. Let's just hope people get their models. 

 

Hi @Yarravalleymodeller,

 

They will, and more new models in the future. We're a team of 15 now backed with proper investment. If we were launching with a photo and a half baked promise via press releases I would begin to worry, but as outlined by @AY Mod and others the investment costs have been sunk into tooling before you can even order, so you can see there has been serious capital outlay already. 

 

If you are nervous due to past experiences then just pre-order via your retailer. No money down, no worries.

 

Cheers!

 

Fran 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Accurascale Fran

[AY Mod]

43 minutes ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

Three letters spring to mind

 

Does Just Make me think you're trolling now. Give IRM, and thus Accurascale, some credit for isolating Billy Bullshine from their initial processes very swiftly.

[Jonboy]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

Look on the bright side, shipping rates are imploding. Of course the reason they're imploding might not be positive, swings and roundabouts.

And at least 8.8% extra blanked sailings this coming month to try and recover them…. 

[billy_anorak59]

38 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

Does Just Make

 

 See what you did there...

 

[The Stationmaster]

3 hours ago, Yarravalleymodeller said:

Three letters spring to mind

 

But let's not pick wounds but a few years old. Let's just hope people get their models. 

Those three letters are the last concern I would compare A/S to - in any way at all.  Critically everything they have announced has come with an illustration of the EP(s) which clearly indicates that the tooling exists so many has obviously been spent before the end customers are asked for any.  

 

You might perhaps be be thinking of another concern where it appears to seek payment of deposits before it has anything to show beyond a CAD (and where - in all probablity - the factory's charging structure is back end loaded as it was with most of the later items announced by the now departed concern you appear to have had in mind).  

 

If you want to lend a manufacturer money (also known as payment/deposit etc paid in advance) that is your choice.  As far as I'm concerned I would only look to those which have had the commitment to their product to actually invest a large sum of their own money before they ask me for any of mine; or I would order via my retailer.

[NIRCLASS80]

I think when you look at recent announcements and releases of items that been run for a second time and no price increases it tells me that this is a well managed, financially stable company that knows the margins required. 
 

PFA - Second release in the last month, price same as first run.

PCA - Second release in the last couple of months, same price. 
 

Irish Railway Models

Fertilisers and Keg Flats, reduced price from the initial first run. 
 

They certainly have got almost 100% of my model budget in the last 12 months and if they keep doing business and models the way they have been then I see no change in the near future. 

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

3 hours ago, McC said:

pay a bean

You take beans,is this the human type.............must be bad if the pound is worth less than a bean.

[TomScrut]

On 27/09/2022 at 17:40, Accurascale Fran said:

Why was this question posed to Accurascale specifically, and not to any other manufacturer on the forum? 

 

Well we know at least three of the other manufacturers change prices after accepting orders (from stockists) for them, and given you sell direct and are very competitively priced it probably seemed a reasonable question.

Edited September 29, 2022 by TomScrut

[MidlandRed]

11 hours ago, McC said:

 

We also don't have loans, so no interest rate concerns impacting pricing.

This may be true now but is it not possible that future models will require investment capital? I sincerely hope you plan to continue producing new models anyway!! As you probably know, the three letters ROI I stated in an earlier post (in response to @The Stationmasterquoting Companies House info on profit) mean return on investment! Not that it’s any of our business really.

 

Whilst being very impressed with how you operate I don’t see how any business can be insulated from increasingly difficult general market conditions (inflation, interest rates, energy costs etc etc) one way or another, so as I said before, I will watch with interest how pricing may or may not be affected in the future. For the moment we are getting great value for money (and there is really no need for any comparisons with other model companies, all of whom operate somewhat differently). Thank goodness for all of them to be honest, we are blessed with much choice and variation, and increasing levels of detail/ fidelity. 

[McC]

Absolutely! Not having loans and having capital to invest in tools are certainly two different things. I guess we are fortunate in coming to the market as more of a ‘tech’ company that produces model railways than anything more traditional. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by McC

[adb968008]

40 minutes ago, McC said:

Absolutely! Not having loans and having capital to invest in tools are certainly too different things. I guess we are fortunate in coming to the market as more of a ‘tech’ company that produces model railways than anything more traditional. 

Thats a “cloudy” response

 

😀

 

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by adb968008

[Hal Nail]

9 hours ago, MidlandRed said:

Thank goodness for all of them to be honest, we are blessed with much choice and variation, and increasing levels of detail/ fidelity. 

 

I have never really understood the apparently prevailing attitude on here (which may just be the minority commenting, of course) that manufacturers go out of their way to cheese off their customers. In fact some of the threads would have you believe that is their only objective.

 

Each one has different circumstances and I have no doubt price is generally more reflective of the cost to produce rather than the vast margins your average anti-capitalist modeller seems to imagine some are making!

Edited September 30, 2022 by Hal Nail

[TomScrut]

7 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

that manufacturers go out of their way to cheese off their customers. In fact some of the threads would have you believe that is their only objective.

 

I don't think anyone thinks they deliberately annoy customers, but some do seem to do it by accident a fair bit!

 

9 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Each one has different circumstances and I have no doubt price is generally more reflective of the cost to produce rather than the vast margins your average anti-capitalist modeller seems to imagine some are making!

 

I don't think any of the price increases we get are directly to do with greed as such, but increasing prices is an easy plaster to place over underlying issues in my opinion, and when the competition are acting differently is not a long term solution. All the manufacturers have their different funding circumstances, objectives, overheads etc. meaning it's not a completely level playing field but given the variation in prices we see across manufacturers (Dapol Class 68 for £128 anyone?) does suggest to me that there could be problems that are better off being addressed than just going "put the prices up". If I was working at Hornby, Bachmann or Heljan I'd be asking the question of "why are (in general) Dapol and Accurascale so much cheaper than us, how do they do it?".

 

There will be some legitimate reasons that could be unavoidable for any given company, but I expect there are also changes that could be made within companies to gain margin back without having to put prices up. I expect this is already been looked at by those companies, but the responses won't happen overnight.

 

It is also very easy for me to sit here on my phone and write this. Far more difficult to actually practice what I am preaching!

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

For some reason i have found the internet something that for some reason people think the worst rather than the best of someone. I guess its because the whole world is online and if its something your brought up with,as a kid the only spam was meat and Monty Python made it funny.....how well mattered,it was made to last and was something you saved for if you wanted it,i blame queen,i want it now and i want it all...........must be someones fault,its the modern way.

[jjb1970]

20 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

For some reason i have found the internet something that for some reason people think the worst rather than the best of someone. I guess its because the whole world is online and if its something your brought up with,as a kid the only spam was meat and Monty Python made it funny.....how well mattered,it was made to last and was something you saved for if you wanted it,i blame queen,i want it now and i want it all...........must be someones fault,its the modern way.

 

News websites etc need clicks, and the easiest way to get clicks is by click bait headlines, selling confirmation bias and cultivating a 'them' and 'us' environment which wants more click bait and confirmation bias. It has had a ruinous effect on public discourse.

 

On prices they are what they are, railing against prices is like shouting at the sun about why it rises in the morning and sets in the evening really. King Canute springs to mind.

 

That said, it should be remembered that each company runs its affairs in its own way, some are more able than others, more bloated or leaner and more flexible, have different expected returns on investment and ultimately some are just better at their business than others. So prices will differ.

[TomScrut]

9 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

That said, it should be remembered that each company runs its affairs in its own way, some are more able than others, more bloated or leaner and more flexible, have different expected returns on investment and ultimately some are just better at their business than others. So prices will differ.

 

That's exactly what I was getting at with my post earlier, and that I think it is maybe easier to slap a price increase onto something than it is to carry out some self reflection to tackle problems.