Hornby announce TT:120

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, DavidLong said:

H0 was already there but it was (the original) Hornby that began the bastardisation of the scale/gauge combination for the UK, something that was continued by Triang with TT3 and Peco with 'British' N.

British N is also not that bad (it scales to about 4’ 4 1/2”, so closer than 00 and TT3) and the original Lone Star electric 000 standard (with true 2mm scale) is sometimes said to have originally been selected to be half the size of EM (of course this didn’t extend to the finer tolerances associated with EM - their die cast push along stuff was similarly half the size of 00, including 8.25mm gauge track).

One issue for those thinking of moving from 00 gauge is that in TT3 the gauge error is actually worse than the one they already put up with, whereas in TT 1:120 the gauge is correct.

 

Incidentally, I wonder whether this new British outline RTR will give rise to suitable loco chassis (with small wheels etc.) for modelling the Padarn Railway in 3mm scale?

[Flying Pig]

13 minutes ago, Ravenser said:

I'd say Hornby are going to deliver greater finesse detail and presence than is available in modern N

 

Not in all cases.  It looks like the finished 08 may actually have fewer sparately applied parts than the Farish equivalent and the same appears to be the case with the Mk1s.  IMO this is not a bad thing - I looked at the wire lighting conduits on the back of my 08 when I got it and thought "hmm...very nice but is it really necessary?".  I think one thing Hornby may have achieved by dropping down a scale is to make some elements of Design Clever acceptable and thereby control costs and I have no doubt that is intentional.

[Legend]

To be honest I get where SK is coming from .

 

let’s face it an OO starter set with an oval of track really doesn’t do much except go round in circles !  I think , in play value,this compares badly with the functionality of a shiny new phone or tablet , Xbox etc etc . However , if in the same space you could create a model railway system  then there is a lot more to capture interest and foster it .add in HM6000 that operates the layout from a phone or go full DCC.  I can see families getting involved.  
 

I got out my “Triang - first 10 years” book out last night , because it does feature TT and OO layouts, with comparative dimensions .It is quite amazing what you can get in a relatively small space in TT . Really quite interesting layouts . 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Legend

[matchmaker]

2 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

No idea on what you base this statement but I feel truly sorry for you. 

 

The retailers I am familiar with and regular visitor to are as far away from your comments as it's possible to be. 

 

Rob

 

Scottish modellers of a certain vintage will possibly remember the notorious Jimmy Glassford who had a shop in Cambridge Street in Glasgow. Without a doubt the rudest shopkeeper I have ever met!

 

Mentioned here Jimmy Glassford

Edited October 11, 2022 by matchmaker
Extra detail

[PaulRhB]

39 minutes ago, MarkSG said:

 

These aren't really aimed at the likes of us. This is aimed fair and square at the train set market. At the people who'd quite like a train set, but haven't really got the space for OO. The people who, on the whole, just like to see trains running and don't care that much about authenticity.

I find that hard to believe as Hornby will want the widest possible market. 
If not they’d be bonkers, well even more bonkers . . .

[MarkSG]

6 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

If this is the case, I think this mind-set is really short sighted. Surely it's the modeller market that would give the range longevity, rather than the family train-set market.

 

There is no after-market support in this scale, as yet, except for the Peco track and building range, a few bits from Gaugemaster, and a loco from Heljan. No wagon kits, transfers, etc. although i'm sure this might change IF the scale proves popular......

 

I disagree. The other manufacturers are addressing the hobbyist market. But Hornby is, by its nature, different.

 

One of the things that often gets discussed here is the way that the traditional entry route into modelling, the kid with a train set, is dying. Go into a toy shop - not a model shop, a toy shop - and see how much train set stuff they've got. And the answer is usually very little, if any. People aren't buying train sets as much as they used to. And one of the big reasons for that is space. An OO train set - even on a bog standard 6x4 board - takes up more space than the average kid in the average house has got available.

 

What Hornby is doing here - or, at least, trying to do - is find a way of reviving the traditional train set market. From their perspective, that's important, because Hornby can't survive on business from hobbyists and collectors alone. Hornby is by far the biggest model railway manufacturer, but the reason they're the biggest is because they have a history of selling into the toy market as well as the hobbyist market. If they lose that, then they've got no bigger a target market than Bachmann, or Dapol, or Heljan, or Rapido, or Accurascale, or.... whoever is the next retailer to start their own manufacturing line a la Hattons. And it's an increasingly crowded market. Hornby can't live off that. For Hornby, train set buyers are absolutely fundamental to their business model. A dwindling train set market poses an existential threat to Hornby in a way that simply doesn't apply to the other manufacturers.

 

This is, obviously, a huge gamble for Hornby. If it fails, then the resources diverted into it will drag down the rest of the company. But if it succeeds, then it will not only be good for Hornby, but it will be good for the hobby. Because if it does acheive the aim of reviving the train set market, then it will also rejuvenate one of the most important routes into the hobby for newcomers. 

 

We don't need Hornby, right now, to be producing TT products aimed at currently active hobbyists. We need Hornby to be producing products aimed at the hobbyists of the future. The TT train sets which fit under a bed, or on top of a table, will lead to more detailed layouts as their owners progress in terms of their own skills and interests. And if some of them never do, and remain happy with a train set, that's absolutely fine. If this project succeeds, it will be good for all of us.

[Legend]

3 minutes ago, matchmaker said:

Scottish modellers of a certain vintage will remember the notorious Jimmy Glassford who had a shop in Cambridge Street. Without a doubt the rudest shopkeeper I have ever met!

 

Mentioned here Jimmy Glassford

i remember the shop , but not the rudeness . Mind you it wasn’t the easiest of places to browse 

[eldomtom2]

12 minutes ago, Legend said:

To be honest I get where SK is coming from .

 

let’s face it an OO starter set with an oval of track really doesn’t do much except go round in circles !  I think , in play value,this compares badly with the functionality of a shiny new phone or tablet , Xbox etc etc . However , if in the same space you could create a model railway system  then there is a lot more to capture interest and foster it .add in HM6000 that operates the layout from a phone or go full DCC.  I can see families getting involved.  
 

I got out my “Triang - first 10 years” book out last night , because it does feature TT and OO layouts, with comparative dimensions .It is quite amazing what you can get in a relatively small space in TT . Really quite interesting layouts . 

Though I do note that the two sets are indeed just an oval of track with a siding, like their OO counterparts...

 

I do think Hornby have continued to miss a trick by not broadening their horizons as to what a train set could be - I think if they made an Inglenook set and branded it as "The Hornby Model Railway Puzzle Game" or similar they could appeal to a lot of people outside the usual train set market...

[5Dublo2]

2 hours ago, SteamingWales said:

Might have already been mentioned but has anyone had any success with the first TT blog

 

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/blog-and-news/train-terminal/onward-journey

 

I have joined the club (out of interest) but cannot access the full article. What can be seen of it there appears to be a lot more info with actual photos of models and EPs

I can access it (and was able to access it yesterday)

The blogs ends with a picture of an unpainted sample of the Goods Brake Van - so if you can see down to that you are reading the complete article

The members link to it is:
https://uk.Hornby.com/community/hornbytt120-club/members-area/blog-and-news/the-onward-journey

 

[Pmorgancym]

2 minutes ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

Yes, but Hornby want you to buy the track packs to make them some more wedge.

But woukd an 08 5 wagons 2points and enough traights for an inglenook be any more expensive?  I'm sure you coukd design it to integrate into the track pack system, Kato do..

[Ouroborus]

I'm not sure one of the "big reasons"  for the declining entry of children into the hobby is space. The world has moved on and kids just aren't into it like they used to be.  Airfix kits require little space, yet children being 'into' them has dwindled - its all adults.   

 

You're competing against screens.

[Stefen1988]

I'm not sure if this was already Posted

 

Prototypes examined by WoR

Edited October 11, 2022 by Stefen1988

[SteamingWales]

11 minutes ago, 5Dublo2 said:

I can access it (and was able to access it yesterday)

The blogs ends with a picture of an unpainted sample of the Goods Brake Van - so if you can see down to that you are reading the complete article

The members link to it is:
https://uk.Hornby.com/community/hornbytt120-club/members-area/blog-and-news/the-onward-journey

 

 

Thanks, but the link still has the same result. Just takes me to the account dashboard page

[spamcan61]

9 minutes ago, Stefen1988 said:

I'm not sure if this was already Posted

 

Prototypes examited by WoR

Strange, if I look at the head on shot of the A3 on that link, the relationship between the track gauge and the bufferbeam width looks no different to an equivalent view of an OO one.

[Zunnan]

9 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

I'm not sure one of the "big reasons"  for the declining entry of children into the hobby is space. The world has moved on and kids just aren't into it like they used to be.  Airfix kits require little space, yet children being 'into' them has dwindled - its all adults.   

 

You're competing against screens.

 

Nail, head.

 

Hobbies require effort, screens cost less and don't require effort. Parenting has long since been passed on to the TV and iPad. I had mine hooked on model railways by age 6. At 8 the grandparents (my side, so can't blame the inlaws) bought a cheap second hand and it took around 30 minutes for the mere notion of going and playing with the new engine for Christmas to be met with eye rolls and disinterest.

[richierich]

Curious development. Brave decision in the current economic environment. 

 

Can see Hornby’s logic. Under serious challenge in 4mm, an opportunity to potentially be a major supplier in 3mm.

I have my reservations about the quality of models. Will they be up there with Accurascale, Realtrack and some of the most recent Bachmann models. Or railroad standard and maybe comprised dimensionally.
 

Guess time will tell. 
 

[Widnes Model Centre]

Not read all previous pages so....... Just in case no one has said it.  "Nothing in this announcemement for us!"

[Geep7]

6 minutes ago, Ouroborus said:

I'm not sure one of the "big reasons"  for the declining entry of children into the hobby is space. The world has moved on and kids just aren't into it like they used to be.  Airfix kits require little space, yet children being 'into' them has dwindled - its all adults.   

 

You're competing against screens.

Absolutely agree. I have tried to at least introduce my son to trains and model railways, but he, and his friends, are much more interested in playing Roblox and Fortnite, even though the dining table is covered with model railway stuff while I build a small layout (with my long suffering wife's permission I must add 😁 ). Even my nephew, who is really into trains, seems to spend more time playing on the computer, ironically usually playing some sort of train simulator. I was actually surprised at the weekend, when my son chose to come along to a model railway exhibition with me, and actually showed some interest.

 

Computer games has become the biggest competitor of pretty much every other traditional toy and games. Lego has diversified into the Adult market, other have tried to add some sort of computer interactivity to try and attract the computer generation, to very little success (as far as I can see).

[009 micro modeller]

20 minutes ago, eldomtom2 said:

I do think Hornby have continued to miss a trick by not broadening their horizons as to what a train set could be - I think if they made an Inglenook set and branded it as "The Hornby Model Railway Puzzle Game" or similar they could appeal to a lot of people outside the usual train set market...

I think this would work well - certainly gives a lot of play value and appeals to those who like puzzles and games rather than just watching a train circle round (which without expansion generally becomes boring after a while).

 

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

Sadly there is a whiff of "we don't like playing with the other kids so we've bought our own playground" about this project

If they really wanted to double down on this sort of approach though, wouldn’t they have selected a slightly different standard to make it incompatible with the other TT 1:120 stuff being done by Peco, Heljan etc. (e.g. by making it a slightly larger scale like ‘old’ British TT, or making it battery rather than track powered, or whatever). There was a time when manufacturers did used to deliberately introduce incompatibility in order to commit you to their system and not those of their competitors, thus giving us different and incompatible power systems (AC/DC, 2 or 3 rail) or coupling systems - I think some American manufacturers even introduced entirely new scales and gauges in order to disrupt their competition. I’m not sure this sort of thing would work to a manufacturer’s advantage these days though, and it might even have the opposite effect.

[Grovenor]

20 minutes ago, SteamingWales said:

 

Thanks, but the link still has the same result. Just takes me to the account dashboard page

Same for me. And choosing blogs from my page just says I don't have one!

[Pmorgancym]

28 minutes ago, richierich said:

Curious development. Brave decision in the current economic environment. 

 

Can see Hornby’s logic. Under serious challenge in 4mm, an opportunity to potentially be a major supplier in 3mm.

I have my reservations about the quality of models. Will they be up there with Accurascale, Realtrack and some of the most recent Bachmann models. Or railroad standard and maybe comprised dimensionally.
 

Guess time will tell. 
 

There's no excuse for dimensional compromise if a reasonable accurate model can be made in then is there no excuse for not meeting that standard in TT.

Quality is interesting Hornby have been getting a kicking from other manufacturers in OO and the price rises havn't helped, moving into an arena with little competition could allow them to be a little lax, but this is a do or die project if the initial models are problematic and leave people disasstisfied that's a lot of effort down the drain....

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Stefen1988 said:

I'm not sure if this was already Posted

 

Prototypes examined by WoR

Thanks, I can see lots of NEM pockets there so Dapol easi shunt couplers are going to be useful. 

[jjb1970]

In this case, I really think Hornby deserve some possitivity. We'll see what the models are like when they appear but I'm going to go into it with a positive expectation. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'd rather do that than the other way around.

[wairoa]

I suppose Hornby know what they are doing. In saying that it seems a bit odd to me going down the TT route. 

[britishcolumbian]

4 hours ago, Stuart A said:

The couplings make the 4 wheel rolling stock look out of propotion in my opinion.  You'sd have thought there were more elegant solutions out there?

This is pretty much the standard post-BTTB coupling in TT. Yes, they look kinda dumb. But they make a string of stock couple up nice and close and look great - hardly noticeable even with goods stock, nevermind pax stock where they're completely hidden. (Nevermind the weathering, it's still WIP)