Hornby announce TT:120

[Dix120]

TT-Scale 120 modeler.

Hornby TT120 owner

Hornby TT120 pe order

Hornby TT120 Interested

 

Thinking about the complaints and criticism still coming, I can't help but think of the lyrics of a song from a current pop Diva: "And the haters gonna hate, hate. . .".

 

I wonder how many of the posters here have any TT-Scale or are intending to buy any? 

It would be nice to know if a given poster fit in any of the above four categories, so I could determine if I care about their comments. If you have skin in the game, so to speak, then I am interested in what you have to say.

If you are some random person who hates TT or the idea of TT or hates Hornby or just likes to piss and moan about everything, then your comments have no value to me.

 

Of course if we didn't have all the moaners, this thread would not be as interesting as it is, so I guess we should keep them for entertainment value. 

 

[teletougos]

4 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

You mean as a Co-Co then?  

 

 

Not just a C-C, no. A C-C with 43' between centre axle points, and trucks of about 6'9" + 6'9" or thereabouts ( I know that isn't exact.)

 

But at TT scale it is going to be right enough for a bunch of US diesels, if they milled a hood chassis & wanted to go in that direction. 

[rob D2]

20 minutes ago, Dix120 said:

TT-Scale 120 modeler.

Hornby TT120 owner

Hornby TT120 pe order

Hornby TT120 Interested

 

Thinking about the complaints and criticism still coming, I can't help but think of the lyrics of a song from a current pop Diva: "And the haters gonna hate, hate. . .".

 

I wonder how many of the posters here have any TT-Scale or are intending to buy any? 

It would be nice to know if a given poster fit in any of the above four categories, so I could determine if I care about their comments. If you have skin in the game, so to speak, then I am interested in what you have to say.

If you are some random person who hates TT or the idea of TT or hates Hornby or just likes to piss and moan about everything, then your comments have no value to me.

 

Of course if we didn't have all the moaners, this thread would not be as interesting as it is, so I guess we should keep them for entertainment value. 

 

Wow, you seriously need to adjust your attitude . It’s called the internet , people comment on various stuff. I comment on Grand Prix , but I’m not an F1 driver.

 

13 posts , and obnoxious .

Edited December 17, 2022 by rob D2

[TEAMYAKIMA]

39 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Wow, you seriously need to adjust your attitude . It’s called the internet , people comment on various stuff. I comment on Grand Prix , but I’m not an F1 driver.

 

13 posts , and obnoxious .

 

That's over the top I think. Calling Dix120 'obnoxious' is extremely offensive.

 

Dix120 has simply stated his opinion, he has not been offensive. You/we might not agree with his opinion, but I think you/we should leave it there.

Edited December 17, 2022 by TEAMYAKIMA

[britishcolumbian]

32 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Wow, you seriously need to adjust your attitude . It’s called the internet , people comment on various stuff. I comment on Grand Prix , but I’m not an F1 driver.

 

13 posts , and obnoxious .

You're right, I should start going on every post and forum about cricket to chime in about what a stupid game cricket is... I'm sure everyone will understand and be just fine with it because it's the internet

[adb968008]

I wonder how long before a set ends up on ebay ?

[Michanglais]

I'm interested to see what's going to happen in the 'parts & spares' department.

 

Clearly, I'm hoping most things will work from the get-go but my TT intentions revolve around a diesel mainenance depot and I'll be wanting to have my models' bufferbeams detailed-up fully at both ends.

 

The sort of detail on the 'front-on' image of the Class 50 in the catalogue is the sort of thing I'm looking for. I don't really mind if Hornby deliver with only enough details for one end of the loco, so long as they make spares available for those of us who want to detail both ends.

 

Anyone got any clues as regards what they supply with their OO diesels? (I haven't owned a Hornby model since bufferbeam detailing parts became a thing!) I presume they would apply the same 'parts' policy to TT...

 

 

[Hobby]

11 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I wonder how long before a set ends up on ebay ?

 

More interested about what the price will be!

 

 

@Dix120 1 and 3, m8, you aren't the first to comment like that btw! It's not too bad now, though it's interesting that a newcomer saw the vibes so quickly...

[Hobby]

1 minute ago, Michanglais said:

I'm interested to see what's going to happen in the 'parts & spares' department.

 

I suspect that if it's faulty it will be a send it back and we'll replace it, just like most of the other manufacturers. Though I also think that current "model railway repairers" will also be able to repair them once they are out of warranty, I can't see the mechanisms being that much different to other scales and stuff like gears can be 3D printed as already proved with Bachmann N scale locos. "Parts" as in detailing bits will come along in due course, rescaled from 00 I'd have thought. It's one of those things that will be done over time but not straight away.

[Robin Brasher]

I wonder if the LNER and LMS locomotives will share a common chassis.  If they do it will make repairs and replacements easy.

[HExpressD]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

Wow, you seriously need to adjust your attitude . It’s called the internet , people comment on various stuff. I comment on Grand Prix , but I’m not an F1 driver.

 

13 posts , and obnoxious .

A bit much.

 

13 posts in and making reasonable points in my view. Every Hornby thread now people seem to appear and say how awful or rubbish the subject of the thread will be, followed by something along the lines that they will never buy anything Hornby like it's a badge of honour. 

 

I get where you're coming from, let people have their opinions, but when their opinions are based on their experience with a companies product 15 years ago (or sometimes seemingly nothing) one wonders where the value lies.

[PaulRhB]

13 minutes ago, Michanglais said:

Anyone got any clues as regards what they supply with their OO diesels? (I haven't owned a Hornby model since bufferbeam detailing parts became a thing!) I presume they would apply the same 'parts' policy to TT...

The OO ones usually come with full detail for both ends but the usual spare parts suppliers won’t get stock I assume so you’d have to ask Hornby about spares, they usually reply in a few days but I suspect they won’t have much more than an intention at present and as everything will be under warranty it may be a year or so before they need to worry about it. 
 

1 hour ago, Dix120 said:

Thinking about the complaints and criticism still coming, I can't help but think of the lyrics of a song from a current pop Diva: "And the haters gonna hate, hate. . .".

Ms Swift becomes the TT ambassador, well that would give some exposure for certain! 

 

1 hour ago, Dix120 said:

I wonder how many of the posters here have any TT-Scale or are intending to buy any? 

It would be nice to know if a given poster fit in any of the above four categories, so I could determine if I care about their comments. If you have skin in the game, so to speak, then I am interested in what you have to say.

Or look back at the last two weeks pics of the sets as a start? I ordered the set early and I guess very early as mine arrived already. I like the scale already having had a few European TT locos and Hornby delivered the quality I hoped for. 

 

1 hour ago, Dix120 said:

If you are some random person who hates TT or the idea of TT or hates Hornby or just likes to piss and moan about everything, then your comments have no value to me.

 

Of course if we didn't have all the moaners, this thread would not be as interesting as it is, so I guess we should keep them for entertainment value. 

To be fair some of us have experienced rather poor quality, service and lack of information with recent OO releases. I got mucked around by my shop pre order for the APT being cancelled at a late date due to their ‘Tier’ policy being applied retroactively to my supplier on an existing order! The 91 is a dog with poor mechanism design making it track poorly and it was a rush job to push Cavalex out so really needed to live up to their hype and missed rather badly. 
So yeah I’m a Hornby buyer but the cosy retro shine of the company that fulfilled my childhood dreams has been stripped away by recent antics that I’ve had personal experience of. Plus I’m appalled by the cavalier attitude and yes arrogance to retailers of the last few years with my local two shops orders shorted with no warning, the tier system being applied to pre existing orders not from a future date etc. 

So I’m a TT buyer and order-er but reserve the right to comment on Hornby’s wider antics while giving a fair review as posted of a nice new product. I still stand by my concerns that not being able to extend the sets by popping in a local shop is a missed opportunity and handled poorly on the brand image front to long standing retail partners. I also think their ‘this is ours alone’ gazumping others announcements attitude is petty and they need to deliver top quality product to justify that aggressive attitude and they patently failed with the 91. 
They have a lot to prove and like Andy I just don’t see TT as a new dawn and the Apple like antics on market domination just make me  😆

[Les1952]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

I wonder how long before a set ends up on ebay ?

 

I'm keeping my eye out....

 

Les

[wasabi]

My layout is Japanese N and Hornby TT is an interesting development but I won't be changing now.  However, what strikes me is that whilst I think a possible future HST and 66 were mentioned, most stock due to appear soon is from approaching 100 years ago. and I just wonder how relevant that is to today's market.  My uncle had a few models in the 30s but they were trains that he could see running at the time.  Of course, more people now have never been on a 'real' train, although if they visit a museum line or go on a rail-tour then a model might make a good souvenir.  It's only one opinion, but it would be nice to see a new venture featuring more models of trains that can actually be experienced today.

 

[IPW]

[adb968008]

And then some of us have been through the ringer that many times they just become cynical that Hornby will ever change, and be consistent with that change… even when presented with a greenfield opportunity for change.

 

if the GBRF 08 with over 15 errors on it, is meant to be an evangelist for converting a whole new market of modern image fans to TT in the future its fallen flat footed of the mark. With nothing relevent for it to shunt, and no accompanying models, I think its going to be a long slow up hill journey for the missionaries to win converts to modern TT.

 

I like the idea of TT120, but don't like how its being implemented or the carry over of “traditional Hornby values” towards modern image… it feels to me very often that they come across as a condescending non-serious toy thing for infants… its not much different in OO too.

 

They wouldnt put oval buffers on an A4 so why are we getting button sized buffers on the gbrf 08 ?

They wouldnt omit roof vents on an A3 so why omit the roof lights on the GBRF 08 ?

They wouldnt omit the draw bar on an A4 so why omit the coupling on the GBRF 08 ?

I can go on.. lights, lamp irons… theres just no attention to detail.

 

You cant say its down to tooling, its brand new.

So if they dont care, why should I as a customer ?

 

which begs the question, why and who exactly are they making an obscure 08 thats hardly visible to anyone for ? … it feels like a tick in a box … “ modern image.. check’.

 

I will grant the 08 looks nice, and theyve tooled at least two versions, but this is 2022… the days of “1 size fits all” has gone, so has “2 versions”… if they want to be taken serious by serious modellers.. they too need to be serious.

 

I know its only an EP, but confidence is low in modern image models in OO… and cyniscm is a friendly partner.

 

The risk is these initial trainsets become curiosities and customers too say “TT.. check” and move on.

Edited December 17, 2022 by adb968008

[Legend]

1 hour ago, Michanglais said:

I'm interested to see what's going to happen in the 'parts & spares' department.

 

Clearly, I'm hoping most things will work from the get-go but my TT intentions revolve around a diesel mainenance depot and I'll be wanting to have my models' bufferbeams detailed-up fully at both ends.

 

The sort of detail on the 'front-on' image of the Class 50 in the catalogue is the sort of thing I'm looking for. I don't really mind if Hornby deliver with only enough details for one end of the loco, so long as they make spares available for those of us who want to detail both ends.

 

Anyone got any clues as regards what they supply with their OO diesels? (I haven't owned a Hornby model since bufferbeam detailing parts became a thing!) I presume they would apply the same 'parts' policy to TT...

 

 

i admire your optimism . You really think there will be a “Parts and spares” dept for TT . Can’t even get spares for much larger OO market 

[Legend]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

And then some of us have been through the ringer that many times they just become cynical that Hornby will ever change, and be consistent with that change… even when presented with a greenfield opportunity for change.

 

if the GBRF 08 at warley, with over 15 errors on it, is meant to be an evangelist for converting a whole new market of modern image fans to TT in the future its fallen flat footed of the mark. With nothing relevent for it to shunt, and no accompanying models, I think its going to be a long slow up hill journey for the missionaries to win converts to modern TT.

 

I like the idea of TT120, but don't like how its being implemented or the carry over of “traditional Hornby values” towards modern image… it feels to me very often that they come across as a condescending non-serious toy thing for infants… its not much different in OO too.

 

They wouldnt put oval buffers on an A4 so why are we getting button sized buffers on the 08 ?

They wouldnt omit roof vents on an A3 so why omit the roof lights on the GBRF 08 ?

They wouldnt omit the draw bar on an A4 so why omit the coupling on the GBRF 08 ?

I can go on.. lights, lamp irons… theres just no attention to detail.

 

You cant say its down to tooling, its brand new.

So if they dont care, why should I as a customer ?

 

which begs the question, why and who exactly are they making an obscure 08 thats hardly visible to anyone for ? … it feels like a tick in a box … “ modern image.. check’.

 

 

 

 

 

Good points on the 08 which I hadn’t picked up on . I still don’t fully understand their rationale on the introductory range . I’m waiting until the 37/47 appear. Then I think we will have critical mass with 08 , 37, 47,50 and HST assuming we will still be able to buy the initial models when the 37/47 comes out .  I’m also not plunging in now because I want to make sure Hornby don’t get cold feet later or cut back due to continuing losses . They have a new CEO after all , his view on TT:120 and overall return on investment might not be the same 

[leonk]

I'm into TT:120 for a different reason:  I model 3foot 6 Australian narrow gauge in HO (some know it as cape gauge).

 

Having a new source of easily available 12mm gauge track will be very helpful.  

I've also got a 3D model partly done that will replace the A1's body and turn it into a Tasmanian M class.

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by leonk

[adb968008]

50 minutes ago, Legend said:

Good points on the 08 which I hadn’t picked up on . I still don’t fully understand their rationale on the introductory range . I’m waiting until the 37/47 appear. Then I think we will have critical mass with 08 , 37, 47,50 and HST assuming we will still be able to buy the initial models when the 37/47 comes out .  I’m also not plunging in now because I want to make sure Hornby don’t get cold feet later or cut back due to continuing losses . They have a new CEO after all , his view on TT:120 and overall return on investment might not be the same 

I’m with you on that.

 

imo they missed some “wows”.

 

Had Electrostar been in the first announcement i’d have been insanely jealous of TT and doing my best to ignore. Had the 66 had POAs not MGRs that too would have been a head turner… the VTXC class 47 with mk2’s.. then it gets compelling.

 

I missed the 50 had mk2’s initially in the melee of announcements, but it needs the 56 to go with mgrs, the GUV and suddenly it looks a bit more jointed.

 

one of the problems of TT, if it is successful, will be meeting the wishlists of modellers, and handling the dissapointment. Without competition, its at least 3 years before others start to fill the gaps. Hornby can only tool so much, I suspect modern image would be the loser judging on past history.

As usual Hornbys got the steam trainset head on, as they always do. What i’m waiting to see is the follow through… Live steam was a head on too and look where that went.

 

 lets compare.. in December 2016 Hornby stunned the community with three Pecketts.. they turned to gold dust, and prices doubled for a year… Rocket did the same in 2020, Hornby Dublo did a frenzy in 2021. Here is TT… its still in stock and there is no frenzy, no initial sell out.

 

TT is here for the long term no doubting that, but will it continue to mature, or will it become a slow drudge of occasional new liveries on the same stock for decades like some of Europes TT ranges ?

 

I am also cogniscent of Hornbys overt pricing strategies which are easy to read… is the current teasing prices of TT just that… a tease… i’m not jumping the 00 frying pan to join a TT frying pan only to find myself at the same price point, and same attention to detail in a year.

 

At the moment its a fringe curates egg. Had this been 2 years ago in a different economy i’d have given it a dabble for fun but ive too much 00 on the list for luxuries like that.

Edited December 17, 2022 by adb968008

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, HExpressD said:

A bit much.

 

13 posts in and making reasonable points in my view. Every Hornby thread now people seem to appear and say how awful or rubbish the subject of the thread will be, followed by something along the lines that they will never buy anything Hornby like it's a badge of honour. 

 

I get where you're coming from, let people have their opinions, but when their opinions are based on their experience with a companies product 15 years ago (or sometimes seemingly nothing) one wonders where the value lies.

Problem is , you’ve got to let people have their opinions whether you agree or not - otherwise it’s censorship . I take exception when people who are newbies come on and slag off other people commenting . If you don’t agree write your version or scroll on - but don’t disrespect their opinion,

 

 

[Hobby]

52 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

if they want to be taken serious by serious modellers.. 

 

From what they've said they aren't too bothered by them! Most modellers aren't rivet counters and won't be bothered by the "issues" you list... Rivet counters will...

 

33 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

imo they missed some “wows”.

 

Had Electrostar been in the first announcement i’d have been insanely jealous of TT and doing my best to ignore.

 

Would it sell better than the ones they've announced so far, though? I suspect not, what they've announced looks to me like Hornby have done their research on what will sell best across the whole spectrum of modellers, new and old, and have decided on the line-up we see. Whether they or you are right we shall have to wait and see. Personally I would have no interest whatsoever in an Electrostar! ;)

 

8 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Problem is , you’ve got to let people have their opinions whether you agree or not - otherwise it’s censorship . I take exception when people who are newbies come on and slag off other people commenting . If you don’t agree write your version or scroll on - but don’t disrespect their opinion,

 

I didn't see him "slagging off" anyone, though, simply passing comment about what he'd seen, which plenty of others had seen and done as well, your post on the other hand... Pot and kettle?

[gc4946]

It's not easy choosing which models to begin with, and to sequence them, if you're introducing a completely new range.

Hornby was right in bringing out Gresley's pacifics as train sets and also (to be) available separately.

At the same time they should have brought out a train set containing a contemporary prototype, a GWR or LNER class 800, or a GWR HST, could have sold well.

[APOLLO]

Hornby (Tri-ang) TT 08 ?

 

This is what I put up with in the 60's .

 

 

Well, it shunted !!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[Hobby]

Most of that list are in the early phases, though, so perhaps they are doing what you suggest! I think there are two schools of thought going on, one where they think Hornby should have launched the whole lot in one go and the other who think they are doing it right by a phased introduction... Again time will tell who's right... (To gc4946 post)

Edited December 17, 2022 by Hobby
Another post made at same time.

[Hroth]

12 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Hornby (Tri-ang) TT 08 ?

 

This is what I put up with in the 60's .

 

 

Well, it shunted !!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

 

For early 60s RTR it was reasonably sophisticated!

 

As was this:

 

 

I just wish Hornby had replicated the shunter and the Brush Type 2 for phase 1, the preorder would already have been in!

 

(I've gor examples of both the above in TT3, plus a Jinty)