Hornby announce TT:120

[Les1952]

I mentioned the A3 running backwards in an email to Hornby Service, and also told them about the lack of adequate packaging in the box.

 

They agreed with my suggestion that it was either the leads to the motor crossed or a rogue motor with the magnet installed the wrong way round.  Either way they agreed that as it runs well to leave it and let the decoder sort it out.

 

They were more concerned that it had rattled about in its box from the warehouse to being delivered, and were going to take up inadequate packaging with the warehouse- mine arrived intact but they thought others packed as sloppily wouldn't.

 

Les

 

[Les1952]

13 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

my a3 turned up yesterday, well packaged with bubble wrap and tight fit in the outer box. I have to say i'm in love with it, in my opinion a better detailed loco than the A4, maybe because its not streamlined you see more bits but it just looks more detailed. Nothing broken, no glue marks, nothing wonky, coal load even looks better than the A4.

 

With an N-gauge fleet that peaked at 16 A4s and 21 A3s, I'm with you on the differences between the two.  Then again I'm one of those heretics that prefers them with double chimneys and blinkers.  Now all we need is for Hornby to release one with blinkers and a GN tender.  Anyone for 60045 Lemberg?

 

Les

 

who would also settle for a double-chimney A4 with a non-corridoor tender (like the one behind Scotsman in BR days-)  60019 Bittern or 60034 Lord Faringdon post its tender swap with Scotsman, perhaps?

[MartinRS]

Apologies if this has been posted before. The DB Schenker Class 08 and the GBRf Class 08 are in stock according to the Hornby site. I have no interest in these liveries. I did buy a BR blue 08 about a month ago and still haven't found time to test it!.
 

[Pacific231G]

On 15/06/2023 at 06:54, Hobby said:

On 14/06/2023 at 20:52, 5Dublo2 said:

    Are you comparing the direction of TT:120 with the direction of OO gauge as I believe Hornby have matched the continental 'normal' for TT gauge which is the opposite direction  to that of OO Gauge (when running on DC/Analog)

All my TT stuff runs the same way, Hornby, BTTB and Arnold. Haven't a clue about other scales as my other stuff is narrow gauge!

Irrespective of gauge or scale, the norms for DC were established aeons ago with everyone (NMRA, MOROP, BRMSB et al) agreeing that the right hand rail looking in the direction of travel is positive. Apart from one H0 autorail, where the builder installed the motor the wrong way up, every loco or railcar I've ever operated in 00, H0, TT, N, H0m or 009 works that way.  Yesterday, I was using a Jouef H0 0-6-0T as a test loco on the Madder Valley durig a maintenace session (we are operating it at Pendon all day tomorrow)  and it runs the same way as everything else. John Ahern went two rail with the layout in the early 1950s and his oriignal locos run the same as any modern RTR 00 loco.

 

One thing I've never quite understood is how DCC modellers know which way if forward or reverse for symmetrical diesel and electric locos.  For steam locos it's pretty obvious that boiler ahead is "forward" even for tank locos that can operate in either direction with equal ease.  I assume with diesel or electric locos and sets there's some marking for the A and B ends but how obvious is that when operating (or do you just have all the A ends facing the same way?

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Pacific231G

[PeterStiles]

18 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

which way if forward or reverse for symmetrical diesel and electric locos. 

It's the end with the driver in it! 

:)

[Pacific231G]

44 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

It's the end with the driver in it! 

:)

Ah but drivers can change ends and there are such things as reversing loops (suggested by CJF for Minories rather than a fiddle yard and probably more practical in TT than 00). It was a serious question though and applies to diesel and electric sets just as much as to locos. 

[philsandy]

19 hours ago, MartinRS said:

Apologies if this has been posted before. The DB Schenker Class 08 and the GBRf Class 08 are in stock according to the Hornby site. I have no interest in these liveries. I did buy a BR blue 08 about a month ago and still haven't found time to test it!.
 

 

You should. I sent mine back the day after it arrived. Ran fine forwards but jerky running and stalling in reverse, and a bent front buffer. The replacement was perfect.

[Les1952]

4 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Irrespective of gauge or scale, the norms for DC were established aeons ago with everyone (NMRA, MOROP, BRMSB et al) agreeing that the right hand rail looking in the direction of travel is positive. Apart from one H0 autorail, where the builder installed the motor the wrong way up, every loco or railcar I've ever operated in 00, H0, TT, N, H0m or 009 works that way.  Yesterday, I was using a Jouef H0 0-6-0T as a test loco on the Madder Valley durig a maintenace session (we are operating it at Pendon all day tomorrow)  and it runs the same way as everything else. John Ahern went two rail with the layout in the early 1950s and his oriignal locos run the same as any modern RTR 00 loco.

 

One thing I've never quite understood is how DCC modellers know which way if forward or reverse for symmetrical diesel and electric locos.  For steam locos it's pretty obvious that boiler ahead is "forward" even for tank locos that can operate in either direction with equal ease.  I assume with diesel or electric locos and sets there's some marking for the A and B ends but how obvious is that when operating (or do you just have all the A ends facing the same way?

 

 

Diesels and electrics (at least on the prototype) have an external 1 or 2 to tell the driver which end is which.  American diesels all have a letter F on one end of the frame.  F stands for FRONT.  Identical diesels were often set up by different railroads to run long end first rather than the more usual short end first, even after the noses were cut down for improved visibility.  Hence the need to know which end of any particular loco was set up as the front with the driver's position and controls facing towards it.

 

I tend to place all of my diesels on Bregstadt with no.1 end facing the same way, and program this as the front of the loco.   On Bregenbach the front of an electric loco faces away from its train- two of the trains are push-pull.  My railcar has the first-class end set up as the front as you can see which end it is when standing in the fiddle yard.  On Croft Spa the diesels were all set up so that forwards was away from the train, and multiple units were placed on the track so they normally ran forwards- but Croft Spa is a roundy-roundy.  On my shunting plank NO PLACE none of the locos are big enough (the largest diesel is an 08) so the cab is set up as the back to be like the steamers.

 

Others will do things differently.  Some use the end with the fan as the front.

 

Les

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Les1952

[Roy L S]

8 hours ago, Les1952 said:

 

Diesels and electrics (at least on the prototype) have an external 1 or 2 to tell the driver which end is which.  American diesels all have a letter F on one end of the frame.  F stands for FRONT.  Identical diesels were often set up by different railroads to run long end first rather than the more usual short end first, even after the noses were cut down for improved visibility.  Hence the need to know which end of any particular loco was set up as the front with the driver's position and controls facing towards it.

 

I tend to place all of my diesels on Bregstadt with no.1 end facing the same way, and program this as the front of the loco.   On Bregenbach the front of an electric loco faces away from its train- two of the trains are push-pull.  My railcar has the first-class end set up as the front as you can see which end it is when standing in the fiddle yard.  On Croft Spa the diesels were all set up so that forwards was away from the train, and multiple units were placed on the track so they normally ran forwards- but Croft Spa is a roundy-roundy.  On my shunting plank NO PLACE none of the locos are big enough (the largest diesel is an 08) so the cab is set up as the back to be like the steamers.

 

Others will do things differently.  Some use the end with the fan as the front.

 

Les

 

 

For diesels it was my understanding that the  correct protocol to follow for "forward" for anything without a "nose end" should always be the fan end which works for the majority of British diesels (but not all - e.g. Deltic) because it is easily identifiable when a model is on the track - it is certainly the way I do it.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Roy L S

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Roy L S said:

 

For diesels it was my understanding that the  correct protocol to follow for "forward" for anything without a "nose end" should always be the fan end which works for the majority of British diesels (but not all - e.g. Deltic) because it is easily identifiable when a model is on the track - it is certainly the way I do it.

Basically 'yes' with some. exceptions.

 

'Long hood' was the No.1 end on the various Type 1 diesel electrics.

On all (from a quick check of the Diagram Book) BR main line diesel electrics the fan end was the No.1 end.

BR Diesel Hydraulics had  'A' and 'B' ends instead of No.s 1 & 2 ends. (incidentally on a Hymek the fan was at the B end)

 

I can't receall ever seeing the end number/letter marked externally on any BR diesels.  There was clearly no need for it to be marked on any diesel electrics as you only had to look at them to know which end was which although something might possibly have been fdone on some in very early days.   Equally there wasn't really much need for anyone to know from outside the loco which end was which on a diesel hydraulic.

[Steadfast]

34 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

I can't receall ever seeing the end number/letter marked externally on any BR diesels

I believe that is a European thing, seems to have come in to the UK on the 68s and 88s.

 

As previously mentioned, general standard in the UK is radiator end is no. 1 end, though on 59, 66, 67 and 70 the no. 1 end is the non radiator end. This comes from US locos only having one cab, and this being away from the radiators.

 

Double cab locos run (generally) indiscriminately in each direction so you can make forwards on your model whatever way you want it to be.

 

Jo

[Guest]

*drumming fingers impatiently* if I may get the thread nearer to topic …😀

 

There seems to be no appetite for other manufacturers to dip their toe into producing a TT locomotive after Hornby announced their 5+ year plan last October. Do we think that there might be a gap for wagons or coaches as a lower risk way of testing demand & proving the concept? Hornby’s modern image wagons aren’t due any time soon (at least winter for the tanks and over 1 months for the MGRs) and after that a limited range is all that’s announced, yet Class 66s & 50s are due within 12 months, while the 08s are already very lonely. What model might complement upcoming & existing locomotives?

[natterjack]

14 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

I believe that is a European thing, seems to have come in to the UK on the 68s and 88s.

 

The Swiss built 18000 gas turbine (Kerosene Castle) came to the UK in 1950 with the 1 and 2 ends denoted in cast Roman numerals above the cab steps- not sure if they have survived subsequent alterations.

[Steamport Southport]

12 minutes ago, Gatesheadgeek said:

*drumming fingers impatiently* if I may get the thread nearer to topic …😀

 

There seems to be no appetite for other manufacturers to dip their toe into producing a TT locomotive after Hornby announced their 5+ year plan last October. Do we think that there might be a gap for wagons or coaches as a lower risk way of testing demand & proving the concept? Hornby’s modern image wagons aren’t due any time soon (at least winter for the tanks and over 1 months for the MGRs) and after that a limited range is all that’s announced, yet Class 66s & 50s are due within 12 months, while the 08s are already very lonely. What model might complement upcoming & existing locomotives?

 

Wagons are already coming. PECO ones are due soon. These are the pre production mock ups.

 

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Peco-TTR-7000W-GWR-7-Plank-Open-Coal-Wagon-TT120_TTR-7000W_N108396603

 

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Peco-TTR-7006P-Colmans-Mustard-7-Plank-Open-Coal-Wagon-TT120_TTR-7006P_N108796255

 

 

Jason

[natterjack]

5 minutes ago, Gatesheadgeek said:

There seems to be no appetite for other manufacturers to dip their toe into producing a TT locomotive after Hornby announced their 5+ year plan last October

I have a suspicion things may rapidly change once the 'low cost' Hornby  motive power for bogie locos become available. Similarly, I wonder if the Hornby launch costing approach was what really gave Heljan cause for pause; I imagine they were anticipating something like the higher end European values for which the UK outline TT120 market needs to be truly established.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, natterjack said:

I have a suspicion things may rapidly change once the 'low cost' Hornby  motive power for bogie locos become available. Similarly, I wonder if the Hornby launch costing approach was what really gave Heljan cause for pause; I imagine they were anticipating something like the higher end European values for which the UK outline TT120 market needs to be truly established.

Looking at the 00 market, there are quite a few wagons from some of the smaller manufacturers that could be introduced at the new scale. The locomotive that I think you speak of seems to have slipped again so there’s plenty of time. As you say, locomotive pricing is quite competitive (especially with the original club discount but even with the 10% reward rebate). At £200 sound fitted, the steam locomotives are great value too. There’s a definite opportunity for some Arnold/Hornby cross-range European wagons as well.

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Wagons are already coming. PECO ones are due soon. These are the pre production mock ups.

 

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Peco-TTR-7000W-GWR-7-Plank-Open-Coal-Wagon-TT120_TTR-7000W_N108396603

 

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Peco-TTR-7006P-Colmans-Mustard-7-Plank-Open-Coal-Wagon-TT120_TTR-7006P_N108796255

 

 

Jason

Yes PECO seem to be pushing on thankfully. Hornby have a couple of GWR locomotives due in later phases so they will be a nice addition. 

[Covkid]

6 hours ago, natterjack said:

I have a suspicion things may rapidly change once the 'low cost' Hornby  motive power for bogie locos become available. Similarly, I wonder if the Hornby launch costing approach was what really gave Heljan cause for pause; I imagine they were anticipating something like the higher end European values for which the UK outline TT120 market needs to be truly established.

 

5 hours ago, Gatesheadgeek said:

Looking at the 00 market, there are quite a few wagons from some of the smaller manufacturers that could be introduced at the new scale. The locomotive that I think you speak of seems to have slipped again so there’s plenty of time. As you say, locomotive pricing is quite competitive (especially with the original club discount but even with the 10% reward rebate). At £200 sound fitted, the steam locomotives are great value too. There’s a definite opportunity for some Arnold/Hornby cross-range European wagons as well.

 

It strikes there is a gulf between Hornby's steam era offerings and the class 50 and class 08.  I sense there are a number of folk who would like 1980s and 1990s rolling stock to run and shunt with class 50 and class 08. Something like a BR hyfit or even a "clayhood" to create the Cornish china clay scene.  You get the image of a china clay quay which a small ship moored up  (much more realistic in 1:120) with an 08 shunting the clayhoods, whilst the 50 stands to one side ready to back up on the completed train. 

 

I wonder if anyone is standing by with a 3D printed class 37 body under which the Hornby class 50 bogies and drivetrain (slightly shortened) could go under ?  Assuming Hornby are not (yet) planning the class 37 in TT:120.       

[melmerby]

21 hours ago, Les1952 said:

American diesels all have a letter F on one end of the frame.  F stands for FRONT.

Not much point these days, where all locos are assymetrical.+

About the only locos that are symmetrical are the main line electrics

Edited June 18, 2023 by melmerby

[Les1952]

4 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Not much point these days, where all locos are assymetrical.+

About the only locos that are symmetrical are the main line electrics

 

Even a wide-cab can be set up with the cab as the rear and the seats and controls facing the long end...  I'm not convinced that any of them have been....

 

Main line electrics have a 1 near one cab and a 2 near the other.

 

Les

 

[Moxy]

23 minutes ago, Covkid said:

  Assuming Hornby are not (yet) planning the class 37 in TT:120.       

 

Yes, they are. Phase 3 or 4.

[Porfuera]

19 hours ago, Moxy said:

Yes, they are. Phase 3 or 4.

 

Agreed - in the online brochure that I have they are listed on page 15 below the images of the HSTs - Classes 31, 37, 47 and 60 from various eras for Phases 3 and 4 (no dates given, though).

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

Agreed - in the online brochure that I have they are listed on page 15 below the images of the HSTs - Classes 31, 37, 47 and 60 from various eras for Phases 3 and 4 (no dates given, though).

 I doubt we’ll see them before 2025 but am happy to be proven wrong!

[frobisher]

32 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

 

Agreed - in the online brochure that I have they are listed on page 15 below the images of the HSTs - Classes 31, 37, 47 and 60 from various eras for Phases 3 and 4 (no dates given, though).

 

The "obvious" gaps for now for another manufacturer would be classes 20, 24/25, 26/27/33, 40, 44/45/46, 55 and 56 (which mildly favours potential activity from Heljan over the others out there).

[natterjack]

1 hour ago, frobisher said:

classes 20

I have a probably wrong recollection that it took forever for a decent competitor to the Hornby diecast to arrive on the OO scene. The class is now well served and sells well in all main UK outline scales. Should be a no-brainer for Heljan - if they are interested in TT120.