Hornby announce TT:120

[GreenBR]

Thankyou

[Les1952]

On 11/04/2024 at 18:14, frobisher said:

 

Never said they did, but the CAD took the same approach a their 00 models with regards separately fitted detail.

 

that doesn't mean those details would survive the reduction in scale without being so thin they fall apart as soon as you look at them....

[MartinRS]

Not having much free time at the moment I've not visited any railway modelling sites (forums or manufacturers) for some time. I was pleased when I recently had a quick look at the Hornby site where I saw the J50 was soon to be released. I was pondering whether to pre-order either the large bunker version or the small bunker version (both in BR livery), then I thought I'll order one of each! They moved coal, shunted goods wagons, and sometimes hauled empty passenger stock. Having done a web-search and seen various photos of pre-production models I have changed my mind.

 

I am certainly keen on modelling in TT120 though I am concerned about the way Hornby appear to be aiming TT120 at the train set market, by which I mean anyone satisfied to run a train round and round in circles on the floor, putting the track away after each session. (This is not a criticism; that's how I started out and I realise some people's circumstances mean that a permanent layout is just not possible).

 

I think it was in a video, sometime before the Class 08 was released, that Hornby suggested TT120 as being suitable for creating a layout on a windowsill. I posted a comment (probably on this thread) pointing out the lack of front couplings on their range of pacifics, the only motive power available at that time and the absence of an affordable turntable.

 

On 18 march 2023 GenericRMWebUsername, presumably quoting from the Hornby TT120 magazine, attributed the following comment to Hornby:

 

In response to demand from modellers, Hornby will also be announcing several additions to its proposed 2024 range. A need for 0-6-0T locomotives for use on goods trains and also to allow operation of end-to-end layouts, is to be addressed with a brand new tank locomotive - details will be revealed next issue.

 

All of the photos of pre-production models of the J50s show the absence of a front coupling. If the production model ships without a front coupling I'm certainly not going to buy one and will be wondering if the people at Hornby commissioning the model actually know how railways operate.

[AnUnknownConsciousness]

4 hours ago, MartinRS said:

All of the photos of pre-production models of the J50s show the absence of a front coupling. If the production model ships without a front coupling I'm certainly not going to buy one and will be wondering if the people at Hornby commissioning the model actually know how railways operate.

Unless there are more elsewhere that I've missed, the photos I've seen appear to be photoshopped images of the OO models, which (having gone back and looked at the first decorated samples shown) were displayed with the front coupler pocket removed for photos, but the models were delivered with front couplers. A tad lazy perhaps - given they went to the effort of editing the correct coupler on the back - but nothing they haven't done before.

[Johan DC]

They did confirm in the Q&A that the J50 will have a front coupling. 

I'm more disapointed that they don't have a TXS version (as yet) from either 0-6-0. 

[Hobby]

7 hours ago, MartinRS said:

Not having much free time at the moment I've not visited any railway modelling sites (forums or manufacturers) for some time. I was pleased when I recently had a quick look at the Hornby site where I saw the J50 was soon to be released. I was pondering whether to pre-order either the large bunker version or the small bunker version (both in BR livery), then I thought I'll order one of each! They moved coal, shunted goods wagons, and sometimes hauled empty passenger stock. Having done a web-search and seen various photos of pre-production models I have changed my mind.

 

I am certainly keen on modelling in TT120 though I am concerned about the way Hornby appear to be aiming TT120 at the train set market, by which I mean anyone satisfied to run a train round and round in circles on the floor, putting the track away after each session. (This is not a criticism; that's how I started out and I realise some people's circumstances mean that a permanent layout is just not possible).

 

I think it was in a video, sometime before the Class 08 was released, that Hornby suggested TT120 as being suitable for creating a layout on a windowsill. I posted a comment (probably on this thread) pointing out the lack of front couplings on their range of pacifics, the only motive power available at that time and the absence of an affordable turntable.

 

On 18 march 2023 GenericRMWebUsername, presumably quoting from the Hornby TT120 magazine, attributed the following comment to Hornby:

 

In response to demand from modellers, Hornby will also be announcing several additions to its proposed 2024 range. A need for 0-6-0T locomotives for use on goods trains and also to allow operation of end-to-end layouts, is to be addressed with a brand new tank locomotive - details will be revealed next issue.

 

All of the photos of pre-production models of the J50s show the absence of a front coupling. If the production model ships without a front coupling I'm certainly not going to buy one and will be wondering if the people at Hornby commissioning the model actually know how railways operate.

 

Bit heavy on the bold/italics, why not just ask us first if they will have them?!

 

It was one of the first questions on the Q&A session later in the day and, as Johan has said they will have front couplers.

[GenericRMWebUsername]

7 hours ago, MartinRS said:

Not having much free time at the moment I've not visited any railway modelling sites (forums or manufacturers) for some time. I was pleased when I recently had a quick look at the Hornby site where I saw the J50 was soon to be released. I was pondering whether to pre-order either the large bunker version or the small bunker version (both in BR livery), then I thought I'll order one of each! They moved coal, shunted goods wagons, and sometimes hauled empty passenger stock. Having done a web-search and seen various photos of pre-production models I have changed my mind.

 

I am certainly keen on modelling in TT120 though I am concerned about the way Hornby appear to be aiming TT120 at the train set market, by which I mean anyone satisfied to run a train round and round in circles on the floor, putting the track away after each session. (This is not a criticism; that's how I started out and I realise some people's circumstances mean that a permanent layout is just not possible).

 

I think it was in a video, sometime before the Class 08 was released, that Hornby suggested TT120 as being suitable for creating a layout on a windowsill. I posted a comment (probably on this thread) pointing out the lack of front couplings on their range of pacifics, the only motive power available at that time and the absence of an affordable turntable.

 

On 18 march 2023 GenericRMWebUsername, presumably quoting from the Hornby TT120 magazine, attributed the following comment to Hornby:

 

In response to demand from modellers, Hornby will also be announcing several additions to its proposed 2024 range. A need for 0-6-0T locomotives for use on goods trains and also to allow operation of end-to-end layouts, is to be addressed with a brand new tank locomotive - details will be revealed next issue.

 

All of the photos of pre-production models of the J50s show the absence of a front coupling. If the production model ships without a front coupling I'm certainly not going to buy one and will be wondering if the people at Hornby commissioning the model actually know how railways operate.

I think this a completely fair take. And as you say, for an end-to-end layout or a shunting layout a front coupler is a must. As @Johan DC noted, we received confirmation that a front coupler will be present on the final model. It's unfortunate that the rendering didn't feature this from the start. You weren't the only eagle-eyed person to note its absence, so it's certainly important and should have been featured.

 

I also believe the Duchesses are supposed to have a front coupler too. It's good optionality! 

[Les1952]

1 hour ago, Johan DC said:

They did confirm in the Q&A that the J50 will have a front coupling. 

I'm more disapointed that they don't have a TXS version (as yet) from either 0-6-0. 

 

To be quite honest, given the size  of the TXS chips I'm glad they haven't- far too much weight would be needed to be carved out to make room for them. 

 

Given that Digitrains have got sound and a stay-alive into an EFE N-gauge J94, why not just get quality sound fitted?

 

Les

[Hobby]

2 hours ago, GenericRMWebUsername said:

I think this a completely fair take. 

 

I'm not so sure, but having said that it's been a common theme since they launched TT:120. There have been other "schoolboy errors" of varying magnitude over the past couple of years, many of which, like this one, could have been nipped in the bud by having someone on their staff who knows the subject and can proof-read/check their stuff before publication (written/verbal/video). Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case so we will continue to see stuff come out where most of us will just give a quiet "groan" and (again) ask them to clarify, like in this case. It's just a reflection of the people they employ, who, whilst they may be fine at checking every detail is correct down to the last rivet, don't seem to be actual model railway enthusiasts , especially those in marketing and who do the publicity.

 

Frustrating, yes, end of the world, no!

Edited April 14 by Hobby

[frobisher]

On 12/04/2024 at 20:54, Les1952 said:

that doesn't mean those details would survive the reduction in scale without being so thin they fall apart as soon as you look at them....

 

Indeed.  I suspect they would have been okay, but maybe not +£50 on RRP's worth of okay.  Hornby chose a path (probably rightly so) and Heljan's wasn't that path.

[teletougos]

23 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

It's just a reflection of the people they employ, who, whilst they may be fine at checking every detail is correct down to the last rivet, don't seem to be actual model railway enthusiasts , especially those in marketing and who do the publicity.

 

Frustrating, yes, end of the world, no!

 

Sometimes the mistakes are the end of the road for a particular product, but since it's embarrassing, you don't hear about it unless you're one of those he's coming to for prototype information or other relevant stuff to product's development.

 

 

Edited April 15 by teletougos

[MartinRS]

On 14/04/2024 at 08:52, Hobby said:

 

Bit heavy on the bold/italics, why not just ask us first if they will have them?!

 

It was one of the first questions on the Q&A session later in the day and, as Johan has said they will have front couplers.

First of all thank you for letting me know that the J50 is to be shipped with a front coupling. Watching Hornby videos has a low priority for me at the moment. I'm slightly confused by your assertion that the model has been photo-shopped. If that is the case then I'm left wondering why Hornby didn't photo-shop a coupling onto the front of the model. (No I'm not going to ask Hornby).

 

You asked me why I didn't ask about the front coupling. When I looked at the Hornby site a few days ago I saw a large photo of a couple of J50s 'on shed' which lacked front couplings. The locos looked aesthetically pleasing, but was not what I wanted. (https://web.archive.org/web/20240415125113/https://uk.Hornby.com/hornbytt120) The individual photographs of each variant on their pre-order pages also show the lack of front couplings. My post was made with the reasonable expectation that the product, which Hornby are offering for sale under their pre-order scheme matches their image on their web-site. Why wouldn't I expect the planned product to match to the photograph, after all, there is a raft of consumer legislation which deals with misleading information?

Edited April 15 by MartinRS
Activate web-link

[Hobby]

I don't think it was me that said it was photoshopped? Though Hornby have been known to do so, previous "photos" of TT120 locos are known to have been 00 locos with TT couplers added! As I've said their checking/proof reading of these sorts of things seems to be somewhat lacking. Regarding the legislation I am pretty sure they'd argue that they are pre-production images and therefore could vary from the final model, I suspect there will be something in their T&Cs/fine print to cover themselves. All I was saying is that you seemed to have got yourself a bit wound up when a simple question would have clarified things, answered by those of us who had watched the video, and like you, noticed the lack of front coupler and asked the question of them.

 

But no harm done!

Edited April 15 by Hobby

[Porfuera]

47 minutes ago, MartinRS said:

When I looked at the Hornby site a few days ago I saw a large photo of a couple of J50s 'on shed' which lacked front couplings. The locos looked aesthetically pleasing, but was not what I wanted. (https://web.archive.org/web/20240415125113/https://uk.Hornby.com/hornbytt120) 

 

That image is probably a couple of 00 scale locos because Hornby didn't even have a complete TT:120 loco available to show on the Q&A - IIRC all they had was a couple of recently-received test mouldings that they hadn't even had time to assemble.

 

I don't know for sure but I suspect that the front coupling on the 00 is optional/removable (at least, I think I've seen this on other 00 models) and that's possibly why they didn't put it on the photoshopped images they're using for the TT:120 models.

 

Edited April 15 by Porfuera

[natterjack]

25 minutes ago, Porfuera said:

I don't know for sure but I suspect that the front coupling on the 00 is optional/removable

I'm looking forward to seeing all the shunting planks with a front coupler fitted Duchess.

[Revolution Ben]

9 hours ago, MartinRS said:

after all, there is a raft of consumer legislation which deals with misleading information?

 

Ironically, given the images Hornby have published, it is only  if the models now arrive *with* the front coupler you want that you will be able to say you were misled.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited April 15 by Revolution Ben

[teletougos]

11 hours ago, Revolution Ben said:

 

Ironically, given the images Hornby have published, it is only  if the models now arrive *with* the front coupler you want that you will be able to say you were misled.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

So in summary, Hornby has accidentally led itself into a highly accurate and customer-friendly state of affairs. 

[moawkwrd]

Just in the sense of balance, the static side-on Hornby pictures of the OO J50 also do not show a front coupling. This isn’t a TT specific issue, unless it was mentioned in the text that accompanied it.

Edited April 18 by moawkwrd

[phil gollin]

.

 

I hope that Hornby will produce a Southern Region "C" or "700" class 0-6-0 (or at a pinch an N class 2-6-0) as they otherwise seem to have a total embargo on Southern items.

 

.

[Hobby]

27 minutes ago, phil gollin said:

I hope that Hornby will produce a Southern Region "C" or "700" class 0-6-0 (or at a pinch an N class 2-6-0) as they otherwise seem to have a total embargo on Southern items.

 

To start with they'll produce stuff that sells well to establish a new scale in the UK. Bearing in mind that the Southern is probably the fourth most popular of the Big Four and even modern stuff is more popular it's unlikely for several years. Though we could see a Southern express loco in 5/10 years. It's not an embargo, simply common sense when looking at potential sales. 

[Johan DC]

My money's on a Terrier as a first Southern loco.

[Legend]

Well what I think we’ve learned is if their is CAD for the 00 version then that seems to make it easier for a TT120 version to appear , which is why I think we’ve got a 50 instead of a 47 . So on that basis if you looking for something Southern  have a look at one of the more recent releases . I would have thought a Drummond 700 might appear as it also fills a slot in the range ie an 0-6-0 tender loco . Would prefer a J36 though ! 

Edited April 18 by Legend

[Roy L S]

8 minutes ago, Legend said:

Well what I think we’ve learned is if their is CAD for the 00 version then that seems to make it easier for a TT120 version to appear , which is why I think we’ve got a 50 instead of a 47 . So on that basis if you looking for something Southern  have a look at one of the more recent releases . I would have thought a Drummond 700 might appear as it also fills a slot in the range ie an 0-6-0 tender loco . Would prefer a J36 though ! 

More specifically, rather that the OO CAD, it would be the existence of an extensive and pretty recent R&D file on the prototype loco that may well have influenced the choice. As there will be different considerations such as material thicknesses (which cannot necessarily be shrunk), clearances, drivetrain, DCC socket space and adequate tractive weight in the smaller model, I would have thought a brand new CAD would be done from the ground up, but yes, that can be derived from R&D already done as can livery artworks.

 

Regards

 

Roy 

[BrakeCoach]

Since the TT range is very Eastern Region focused, why not the Intercity 225? Would be nice if we got the entire ECML express lineup.

[phil gollin]

9 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

To start with they'll produce stuff that sells well to establish a new scale in the UK. Bearing in mind that the Southern is probably the fourth most popular of the Big Four and even modern stuff is more popular it's unlikely for several years. Though we could see a Southern express loco in 5/10 years. It's not an embargo, simply common sense when looking at potential sales. 

.

 

Any evidence for that rather silly assertion ?

 

Southern models (pre-grouping, grouping and British Railways are extremely popular, only Hornby seem to have gone off them.

 

.