Hornby Dublo 2023 Flying Scotsman.

[Black 5 Bear]

36 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Theres nothing limited edition about 4472… it and Mallard are probably the most sold models there has ever been.

 

if you look backwards… there are no valuable models of 4472… they all scrape the ebay barrel… theres umpteen “limited”, “special”, “must have”, “highly collectable” editions of this loco.

 

4472 is Strictly for fun, not for investment.

 

Selling tickets to stand next to the loco…I now have heard it all.

They will be selling bottled steam from it next…

Would one like a drop of eau d’raincock sir ?

Agree in principle with your comments as to the main range 4472 not being highly collectible.

I've just purchased two newly tooled A3's Lemberg and FS at a considerable discount within 6 months of release. 

Could this happen with the newly released 9f a few months down the line?

It may transpire that these new offerings within the HD range and limited to 500 models, buck the trend and sell out quickly because of deliberate marketing/hype, targeting the collector on the part of Hornby.

In the current financial climate who knows!

Edited October 14, 2022 by Black 5 Bear

[Trains4U]

In an unexpected turn, we have been given an allocation of all models in the range.

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I dont usually comment on prices (as it's basically pointless) but this is an audacious mark up given the price of the new and entirely newly tooled diecast 9F.

 

Aimed squarely at the collector rather than the modeller

I wonder just how big the collector market now is?  Does the high price partially reflect the fact the at these will be produced in limited numbers, say 1,000 (or fewer) in total for the six versions?  I see the TT120 version is £145 so obviously that will be - and no doubt is meant to be - more attractive to the wider market but it might also give us an idea of the level of mark up on the 00 versions even allowing for detail differences.

 

Interesting today to see that the pictures of the locos have gone from the link to be replaced by pictures of the boxes - has there been some sort of detail, detail, detail problem or are the boxes regarded as partly explaining the price?

[5Dublo2]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interesting today to see that the pictures of the locos have gone from the link to be replaced by pictures of the boxes - has there been some sort of detail, detail, detail problem or are the boxes regarded as partly explaining the price?

It looks like which image is used as the thumbnail for items on the website is down to which image is first in  the list within the details of the item. If you look at the thumbnail for R30206 it still shows the loco (not the box) and if you then open up the details of that loco and compare with the details of others, you can see that the ordering of the images is different inside the details (and the loco CAD  images are still there for all of them)

I guess a quirk of the website linked to  someone changing the order of the images  in the details

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by 5Dublo2

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I wonder just how big the collector market now is?  

I think Hornby is working on a new kind of collector.

 

Traditionally Collectors have sets, based on a theme… a region, a time period, a class or even a manufacturer.

 

For a while there was a strong market of “limited edition” collectors but that was oversold and most lost value, and saw duplication of tooling or sometimes spurious paint amendments to create another run.

 

Hornby seems to be angling to “mass population” collecting.. (I used to call it the sunday magazine collector many years ago… you know odd ball tat such as legal silver coins celebrating a theme, but issued by a remote country.. over priced the moment you buy them they are worth nowt once the event has passed), but today the internet means more often and more publicity.

 

Recent Examples include Ukrainian stamps for snake island/Moskva sinking

 

By using their name and recent TV documentary and their occasional well placed social media attacks, its attracting interest to some limited editions that ordinarily probably wouldnt buy them on an ordinary circumstance.

 

if you look at it.. 66731 was fashion, the Dublo Trio ballooned the week of the TV documentary release, and 70 “QE2” went stratospheric the week of HM’s passing…

ordinary modellers, indeed ordinary model railway collectors probably wouldnt go near those prices…. and then of course as the event passes the prices collapse to more realistic levels.

 

My gut feel is the LNER silver HST should bomb.. but if that becomes subject of an episode of the TV program, and is released at the same time, it could well too become a one week fashion icon, before the bargain bin beckons as a cheap supply of spare parts.

 

Hornbys not tapping FOMO of model railway collectors, they are tapping FOMO of any kind of collectors. Many of whom may sadly consider it an investment… “For Keeps”… and many of them dont care how accurate the model is.

 

These 4472 sets, if hyped with the TV show, if linked to news items will probably also sell out, even if they are priced above a normal collectors threshold, but I suspect the longevity of that success will not go beyond the anniversary events.

 

Only Hornby can do this, so they may as well exploit it. Indeed that might even be TTs route to success… I suspect many buyers of such stuff dont have layouts and may not even know much of the train…

 

but how long they can do it is questionable… those buyers are fickle so are TV journalists, they love to build up a success, but they absolutely relish tearing it down.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by adb968008

[Michael Hodgson]

14 hours ago, adb968008 said:

They will be selling bottled steam from it next…

On my desk as a pen holder is a short length of 4472's old boiler tube.

Relic of a project many years ago to raise funds for her boiler replacement.

Glad to see her still in steam after all this time.

[franciswilliamwebb]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

and 70 “QE2” went stratospheric the week of HM’s passing…

 

Let's hope they've got their sums right on the Kwasi Kwarteng bullion train set 😂

[adb968008]

36 minutes ago, franciswilliamwebb said:

 

Let's hope they've got their sums right on the Kwasi Kwarteng bullion train set 😂

Wont need to, when the model is released £362 will just about buy you a can of coke.

[Steamport Southport]

On 14/10/2022 at 13:54, Brian Indge said:

Ah yes, but remind me which loco, out of Caerphilly Castle and Flying Scotsman is still running!

 

Pendennis Castle and it's still running unlike Victor Wild which replaced Flying Scotsman when it failed...`

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p721368492/ed5626bda

Edited October 15, 2022 by Steamport Southport

[adb968008]

7 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Pendennis Castle and it's still running unlike Victor Wild which replaced Flying Scotsman when it failed...`

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p721368492/ed5626bda

Though Scotsman is on the mainline.

Wasnt their promise made to Australia that Pendennis would be on the mainline too ? Perhaps they could go mainline with 7027 instead ?

Edited October 15, 2022 by adb968008

[Steamport Southport]

Just now, adb968008 said:

Though Scotsman is on the mainline.

Wasnt their promise made to Australia that Pendennis would be on the mainline too ?

 

Maybe because Didcot don't get huge amounts of taxpayers money to pay for their projects.

 

Funny that three Castles were saved directly from BR yet no one wanted to save A3s even though several lasted well into the preservation era. Even the National Collection said FS wasn't worth saving as it wasn't historically important.

 

Anyway back to the model. Nice, but not for me. I wouldn't mind a couple of normal A3s though since they've solved the ski jump problem. So £360 for one or a similar price for two?

 

 

Jason

[sirwilliamfrs]

Maybe a minor point, but Hornby still perpetuate the fitting of two sets of guard irons and axlebox splash shields on later A3s (and A4s), which had mostly, if not completely, disppeared by 1960. Below is my interpretation, not perfect, but looks better to me! Colossal price for the latest Dublo models too.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by sirwilliamfrs
correction

[toby_tl10]

7 hours ago, Trains4U said:

In an unexpected turn, we have been given an allocation of all models in the range.

If I were you, I wouldn't speak so soon... (We all know what Hornby is like)

 

Hopefully you actually will receive your allocation when the models arrive from China

[Esmedune]

On 14/10/2022 at 11:32, Black 5 Bear said:

Just had the following email from Hornby announcing a plethora of Flying Scotsman variants for release in Spring 2023 :- https://uk.Hornby.com/catalogue/flying-scotsman-centenary

A fool and his money are soon parted...

Hornby were getting absolutely eviscerated on social media yesterday, partly because of this daylight robbery but mainly because of their hijacking Heljans TT:120 range and causing them to cancel everything.

[Esmedune]

5 hours ago, adb968008 said:

For a while there was a strong market of “limited edition”

I keep seeing these gold plated versions not selling on eBay. It gets annoying when you are after a realistic version.

[HonestTom]

4 minutes ago, Esmedune said:

Hornby were getting absolutely eviscerated on social media yesterday, partly because of this daylight robbery but mainly because of their hijacking Heljans TT:120 range and causing them to cancel everything.

Well, that hardly seems fair. Heljan made the decision to cancel.

[Esmedune]

4 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

Well, that hardly seems fair. Heljan made the decision to cancel.

Only because Hornby released many of the exact same locos Heljan had planned.
They did the same thing with the recent Lion loco. They had even planned to release the Titfield Thunderbolt, only Canal stopped them. They are getting really dirty and underhanded at Hornby.

[Black 5 Bear]

18 minutes ago, Esmedune said:

A fool and his money are soon parted...

Hornby were getting absolutely eviscerated on social media yesterday, partly because of this daylight robbery but mainly because of their hijacking Heljans TT:120 range and causing them to cancel everything.

I didn't say I was buying one.

It was more an informative post for others on RMweb, should a new HD Flying Scotsman locomotive be of interest.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Black 5 Bear

[Black 5 Bear]

34 minutes ago, Esmedune said:

Only because Hornby released many of the exact same locos Heljan had planned.
They did the same thing with the recent Lion loco. They had even planned to release the Titfield Thunderbolt, only Canal stopped them. They are getting really dirty and underhanded at Hornby.

Sorry, but this is market forces in action.

Hornby are not the only supplying manufacturer to be doing this.

You only have to look at  Bachmann and their "Surprise" release of a reworked Class 37 to the market before Accurascale.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Black 5 Bear

[melmerby]

36 minutes ago, Esmedune said:

Hornby were getting absolutely eviscerated on social media yesterday, partly because of this daylight robbery but mainly because of their hijacking Heljans TT:120 range and causing them to cancel everything.

 

23 minutes ago, Esmedune said:

Only because Hornby released many of the exact same locos Heljan had planned.
They did the same thing with the recent Lion loco. They had even planned to release the Titfield Thunderbolt, only Canal stopped them. They are getting really dirty and underhanded at Hornby.

Considering that

a) Hornby had been working on Lion as an obvious follow up to their successful Rocket (Titgate is another matter entirely) and it was in the rumour mill before Rapido broke cover.

b) Hornby have been working on TT-120 for some time as can be readily seen by the amount that is being offered in one go and AIUI previous comments from SK.

 

 

 

 

[Esmedune]

5 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Sorry but this is market forces in action, Hornby are not the only supplying manufacturer to be doing this.

You only have to look at  Bachmann and their "Surprise" release of a reworked Class 37 to the market before Accurascale.

Market forces are defined as the actions of buyers and sellers that cause the prices of goods and services to change without being controlled by the government.
This is just dirty tactics to undermine your competitors. Stomping on Heljan and the TT:120 market is probably going to damage the popularity of the scale, were if they had expanded the available range, it may have helped stimulate interest in the scale.

[Esmedune]

31 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

I didn't say I was buying one.

It was more an informative post for others on RMweb, should a new HD Flying Scotsman locomotive be of interest.

Sorry, it was not meant in a direct reply to yourself, just a statement on the price. No slight intended.

[Black 5 Bear]

19 minutes ago, Esmedune said:

Market forces are defined as the actions of buyers and sellers that cause the prices of goods and services to change without being controlled by the government.
This is just dirty tactics to undermine your competitors. Stomping on Heljan and the TT:120 market is probably going to damage the popularity of the scale, were if they had expanded the available range, it may have helped stimulate interest in the scale.

 Neither you nor I know exactly how long Hornby have been working on the TT scale models.

This is solely Heljans own decision to pull the plug on their products.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Black 5 Bear

[Michael Hodgson]

59 minutes ago, Black 5 Bear said:

 Neither you nor I know exactly how long Hornby have been working on the TT scale models.

This is solely Heljans own decision to pull the plug on their products.

Hopefully Hornby have just saved Heljan from going down a blind alley commercially.

[melmerby]

3 hours ago, Esmedune said:

Stomping on Heljan and the TT:120 market

That's just an emotive load of twaddle, exactly what I would expect from the social media you quoted earlier

 

How can Hornby have stomped on Heljan when it's obvious Hornby have been working on this for some time and have product when Heljan apparently have nothing more than plans?         

Hornby have taken some of their core 00 range and scaled it down. Sounds like sound business sense to me.