EFE LSWR Cross-country coach sets

[AY Mod]

 

As part of their Winter 2022 British Railway Announcements, Bachmann present this LSWR Cross Country Coach Pack. Using new tooling developed for the EFE Rail range, each three-coach pack comprises two Brake Thirds and a Composite coach. Presented as a book set, the three vehicles are numbered accordingly to create an authentic coach set, with set numbers applied to the brake end of each Brake Third vehicle. With an abundance of detail, including separately fitted roof ventilators, handrails, grab handles and underframe components, this coach pack will make a fine addition to any collection.

 

 

History of the LSWR / SR Cross Country Sets

 

 

Constructed between 1906 and 1910, by the London South Western Railway, there were 36 sets formed wholly of non-corridor 56ft vehicles. These sets were generically called 'Cross County Sets'. They were introduced originally as four coach sets.

 

These sets comprised of the following:

• Brake Thirds, four compartment to LSWR Drawing 1446, SR diagram 124, two per set.
• Composite (First / Third class), seven compartment to LSWR Drawing 1298, SR Diagram 274.
• Third, eight compartment to LSWR Drawing 1302, SR Diagram 17. The all Thirds were originally introduced as Second / Third Composites but rebranded to all Thirds with no structural change by the end of 1919.

 

Not all the original LSWR set numbers are recorded, although it is known some were numbered between 60 to 69. The Southern Railway numbered the sets in the ranges 130-151, 253-263 and 311-314 (sets 311-314 were originally introduced as 6 coach sets but became four coach formations in 1934 (and subsequently 3 coach sets).

 

All sets were reduced to three coaches in the mid to late 1930s, by the removal of the Diagram 17 Third coaches. These became loose stock. At the same time the number of first class compartments, in the Diagram 274 Composite, were reduced from five to three (not a physical alteration, just reclassification and change in class branding on the outside of the compartments).

 

Despite the longevity of these sets, apart from the reduction from 4 to 3 coaches and the reclassification of some of the composite compartments, there was no real physical changes to any of the coaches

 

The cross country sets could be seen all over the South West section of the Southern Railway / Region and their duties were pretty well interchangeable with any other three or four coach set.

 

Withdrawal of these sets was completed during 1956/7, following department use, Brake Third number 2975 (ex set 146) survives and is operational service on the Bluebell Railway as LSWR 1520, known to be part of set 63, and Composite number 5065 (ex set 134) survives on the Kent and East Sussex Railway awaiting restoration.

 

LSWR Cross Country 3-Coach Pack SR Malachite Green £224.95

 

Product Number: E86013

Scale/Gauge: OO

Era: 3

Availability: Dec/Jan

 

 

LSWR Cross Country 3-Coach Pack BR Crimson £224.95

 

Product Number: E86014

Scale/Gauge: OO

Era: 4

Availability: Dec/Jan

 

LSWR Cross Country 3-Coach Pack BR (SR) Green £224.95

 

Product Number: E86015

Scale/Gauge: OO

Era: 5

Availability: Dec/Jan

 

For further useful images and information - https://southern-railway.com/2022/11/02/bachmann-announce-ex-lswr-sr-56ft-non-corridor-cross-country-sets-as-part-the-efe-rail-range/

[Mallard60022]

OOOOOF!

[Wickham Green too]

Diagram 17 'loose' Third, please ! 🙃

[phil-b259]

The Malachite brake coaches are missing the ‘3’s!

[Nick C]

Presumably, given the withdrawal dates, the BR(S) set is revarnished Malachite rather than the darker post-56 green (and so is suitable for the whole 48-57 period)? It looks the same colour as the SR set in  the above photos...

[woodenhead]

An interesting set, is there a possibility of a 4 car set in SR Olive then, seeing as the changes were all cosmetic on the existing carriages so just tooling up an 8 compartment third is all that is needed (just!!)

[D9020 Nimbus]

7 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Presumably, given the withdrawal dates, the BR(S) set is revarnished Malachite rather than the darker post-56 green (and so is suitable for the whole 48-57 period)? It looks the same colour as the SR set in  the above photos...

Except that it says era 5 — when the crimson coach is era 4. Perhaps the livery is fictitious?

[GreenGiraffe22]

As I've said elsewhere, really happy with this announcement, a useful set for me to have as they seemed to have appeared between Brighton and Portsmouth! Pity no olive yet but I'm sure one will come. 

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/LBSCR-tender-locomotives/LBSCR-H2/i-FwgN3g6

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/LBSCR-tank-locomotives/LBSCR-E4-E4X/i-7FvT75d

 

Is there a set on the back here? 

 

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/Trains-Railways-British-Isles/SR-and-BRS/LBSCR-tank-locomotives/LBSCR-I3/i-bLspFzd

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

29 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

The Malachite brake coaches are missing the ‘3’s!

... and the class numerals on the Composite ( and brakes ) should be a little higher than the B.R. position.

[Steamport Southport]

9 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Except that it says era 5 — when the crimson coach is era 4. Perhaps the livery is fictitious?

 

Very few Southern coaches got the crimson. Most that had a repaint in green post war bypassed it completely.

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green too]

On 02/11/2022 at 15:24, GreenGiraffe22 said:

As I've said elsewhere, really happy with this announcement, a useful set for me to have as they seemed to have appeared between Brighton and Portsmouth! ...

Your first photo is right but the second and third are both the sliding van door variant with original 48' or 50' intermediates replaced with a lengthened ( Maunsell frame ) Composite.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Wickham Green too
Historical correction !

[GreenGiraffe22]

5 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Your first photo is right but the second is the sliding van door variant and the third a pair of 48' brakes with a lengthened ( Mansell frame ) Composite.

 

Ah I see,  I have a much lesser trained eye! Useful none the less

[4630]

For those interested in the formations of the LSWR Cross-Country sets, liveries and the dates that they may have been carried, the following on the ever useful Blood and Custard website may be helpful;

 

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/SR-CoachingSets-LSWR-CrossCountrySets130-324.html 

[Wickham Green too]

Lots of info in the appropriate Weddell volume and Mike King's latest.

[Wickham Green too]

Just about anywhere on the Western Section.

[Ian J.]

23 hours ago, Tim Dubya said:

So I've pre-ordered Set 314 from Kernow

...

in the green (BR or otherwise) but I can't seem to find any information on this particular set on the SEmG spreadsheet.

Can anyone fill me in on the location/ routes for this set?

 

Cheers

Dubs

 

The SEmG spreadsheet isn't complete, and also has errors. I have started a personal project to improve it by getting the data into better form for easier interrogation, but it's going to be a long haul as there's quite a lot wrong and consequently I'll have to go back to sources to straighten things out.

[bude_branch]

First off, full marks to Bachmann/EFE for producing a Set 314 in BR(S) green, I'm sure they will be popular with Southern Modellers of the early BR Period.

 

Looking closely at the pictures, the three coaches are numbered S2981, S5043 and S2679, whereas I would have expected to see S2981S, S5043S and S2679S.

 

I was wondering if any of the resident experts know which is correct?

[ikcdab]

What is the reason for having two brakes on a three coach set?

[bude_branch]

6 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

What is the reason for having two brakes on a three coach set?

The amount of Parcels, Post Office Mail, Newspaper Traffic and Passengers Luggage that was carried in those days.  It also enabled the Guard to ride at the rear of the train without remarshalling when a set changed direction.

Edited November 5, 2022 by bude_branch

[45655]

Until the 1960s the Board of Trade and its successors generally required a brake van at each end of a train to provide a buffer zone for passengers in the event of a collision.*  Before the days of continuous brakes this would also provide additional brake power, with a brakesman riding at the front and the guard at the rear of the train.

 

As bude_branch says, at one time the vans on local trains would gobble up huge amounts of stuff - not just passengers' luggage but also milk churns, boxes of fish, barrels of beer, local produce, dogs, parcels, etc.  The vans on these sets took up half the length of the coach.  (Don't forget that they were built as four coach sets - they were reduced to three in the 1930s due to generally declining traffic.)

 

Keith

Alton.

 

* This was often ignored in practice when a strengthening coach or two had to be popped on the front.

[RFS]

Looks like a pair of sets in this photo with a couple of Maunsells in between. Portsmouth to Brighton in 1938.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p685609678/e1fca8d3f

 

 

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Tim Dubya said:

I'm assuming that the one S was just the way numbering went on early BR.  Again I'm also assuming from their colour that set 314 is in Southern malachite and not BR(S) green?

Yes, the regional suffix was introduced when Mk 1 coaches appeared to be in danger of duplicating existing stock. With the coaches being withdrawn in 1956/7 they would not have received B.R. green.

[Tramshed]

On 02/11/2022 at 14:56, phil-b259 said:

The Malachite brake coaches are missing the ‘3’s!

How do we feel about this? One of the casualties of the announcement being so close to shipping date is the lack of time to examine livery samples etc. The numbering error on the Malachite Bullied 64' set has resulted in a delay until next year before they arrive in the shops. I am told they have been returned for the error to be corrected.

My own preference would be for these too to be delayed while the missing '3s' are added. I don't mind paying £200+ for three coaches but would think twice before doing so for a product known to have a correctable fault. 

[Wickham Green too]

As I said, above, it's not just the missing '3's but the incorrect positioning of '3's and '1's that ought to be sorted out ................. I seem to recall that Bachmann had to rectify something on the malachite green 'birdcage' composites that delayed them somewhat.

[Mallard60022]

3 hours ago, Tim Dubya said:

 

I'm assuming that the one S was just the way numbering went on early BR.  Again I'm also assuming from their colour that set 314 is in Southern malachite and not BR(S) green?

 

 

I used the Tissue but it was inadequate.

Can I buy these and make them into an Engineer's bunch of wrecks; askin'for a friend (who is also daft)?

W. Ibble