EFE LSWR Cross-country coach sets

[Blandford1969]

As they got on the S&D you can also include an S11 (1940s) 4F, 2P, underbuilt West Country. Whilst on the Corkscrew and Salisbury and Dorset you can add K10, L11 and 700

[Rich46]

I have  both the BR green and crimson sets and I am very pleased with them. I did notice that a roof vent is missing from the composite coach. I have checked the Weddell drawings and photographs of them in BR days to make sure they weren't modified. You will notice that one compartment only has one vent whereas the others have two.I then added an LMS CV01 low profile Torpedo Coach Vent which seems to be a good match. Once I've sprayed the roof with Roof Dirt I am sure it will hardly notice. Apologies if this has already been covered. Richard

[locoholic]

Collected my red set from Derails. They look good...    apart from the wheels, which are shiny silver, so will need a coat of grot.

 

Given these are not cheap, I do think EFE could have spared us the trouble by toning down the wheels before assembling the models.

 

Intrigued by the reference to Kernow Models on the back of the box.

[phil-b259]

15 minutes ago, locoholic said:

 

Intrigued by the reference to Kernow Models on the back of the box.

 

Why?

 

The ex LSWR set, like the gate stock before it clearly has its roots with Kernow and had Bachamnn not set up the EFE rail brand the coaches would presumably only be available form Kernow themselves.

 

At the time of its launch Bachamnn were quite clear that EFE rail do not design or make things themselves - it was devised to handle the marketing and distribution of models produced by 3rd parties thus giving them grater visibility in the market while also presumably earning a nice bit of commission for Bachmann 

[rasalmon]

On 13/01/2023 at 04:36, phil-b259 said:

Anyone got a pic of the Southern Railway Malachite set - are the brake 3rds still missing their '3's from the doors...

Sadly, yes; they were apparently already made and on the boat when the November launch details resulted in the issue being raised.  I have some transfers.  Maybe I should re-do those on the Composite too with them higher up the panels?

Edited January 21, 2023 by rasalmon

[rasalmon]

On 16/11/2022 at 17:58, JSpencer said:

I wonder if the bluebell coach (either in preserved or as she was as part of a set in BR days) will be done at some point?

As preserved 1520 has a dynamo and battery boxes, which it never had in service (I presume it gained them in departmental days?) - the set was supplied electrically from the centre coaches.
I'm hopefully they'll do the fourth coach, and produce four-coach sets in SR lined olive and LSWR liveries.  I'd better start saving now!!!

[rasalmon]

On 06/11/2022 at 22:49, woodenhead said:

Would a three coach be prototypical?

 

I’m sure they’d have done a set now if that was the case.

 

If they only worked as a four car set in Maunsell then people would complain if they released it as a three car

Perversely, Set 253, which they've chosen to do in Malachite, was reduced to a 3-set whilst remaining in Olive.  It had been repainted (olive) in 1936, possibly with a reduced amount of lining.  It became a 3-set in 1939 (at which point it was re-varnished) and ran in Olive for the rest of the war (so yes, they could have done a set in Olive).  In 1945 it was next repainted, into the Malachite livery EFE have it in.  They might have chosen a set which had been repainted Malachite much earlier... 
The set was withdrawn in April 1953, and having been only repainted in 1945 was almost certainly still in malachite then.  It would have been given S prefixes, Southern removed and 3s on the third-class doors removed probably some time in late 1948 or 1949.

[Wickham Green too]

11 hours ago, rasalmon said:

... It would have been given S prefixes, Southern removed and 3s on the third-class doors removed probably some time in late 1948 or 1949.

So everyone's either got to add prefixes and remove SOUTHERN  -  OR add class numerals to all doors in the higher Southern position ............................... as competent modellers, not too onerous !

[Oldddudders]

17 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

So everyone's either got to add prefixes and remove SOUTHERN  -  OR add class numerals to all doors in the higher Southern position ............................... as competent modellers, not too onerous !

But surely EFE are offering the "add prefixes and remove SOUTHERN" version as BR(S)? This appears to be the same malachite shade, which would be the case for those which never received crimson, but merely a re-varnishing of malachite, which had only been applied fresh in the mid-40s.

[Wickham Green too]

I was referring to adding prefixes to the EXISTING numbers - which would have happened ( to some sets ) early in BR days - then the unshaded BR numbers would have appeared in the waist panels at a later date once a standard scheme had been established.

[90rob]

Shouldn't the crimson set be carrying both an 'S' suffix as well as prefix or have I missed it somewhere in the discussion?

 

[rasalmon]

1 hour ago, 90rob said:

Shouldn't the crimson set be carrying both an 'S' suffix as well as prefix or have I missed it somewhere in the discussion?

 

Good question...
Painting into Crimson started in April/May 1949, initially with horizontal lining both below the eves panel and below the waist panel, but fairly soon the upper line was dropped.  At that time there was only an S prefix, no suffix, and the number carried at the left hand end of the bodyside.  From July 1950 the running number was moved to the right hand end, and some earlier ones were changed (apparently the left hand end was more difficult for guards recording the numbers of the stock in their trains).  On some stock, the number was actually moved.  The application of lining to non-corridor stock ceased fairly quickly, with few coaches actually receiving it.
The S suffix (denoting that Southern Region held the spares for the stock) started to be used at some point in 1951.  Very few carriages would therefore have been repainted in all-over Crimson before 1952, since the vast majority of older stock (probably about 90% - since just 10% remained in Olive by nationalisation, and little repainting had been done during the war) had been repainted in Malachite between 1945 and 1948, so was relatively fresh, and just been revarnished at the point where the numbers and lettering were changed.

[Garethp8873]

So I am understanding that the main issue with the SR examples is the Brake 3rds missing their '3's from the doors"? I am interested in picking up a set, but looking at the comments on the thread, I am not sure what to think at the moment. I would appreciate some guidance and clarification from those who know these sets please.

[90rob]

4 hours ago, 90rob said:

Shouldn't the crimson set be carrying both an 'S' suffix as well as prefix or have I missed it somewhere in the discussion?

 

 

I think I have just answered my own question, because I have noticed the picture of set 130 in Fareham station in 1953 on the  'Blood and Custard' website, and the suffix 's' is there. along with notes on the absence of First Class  '1's on the composite. Most useful site, and I should have checked there first!  https://www.bloodandcustard.com/SR-CoachingSets-LSWR-CrossCountrySets130-324.html

[JSpencer]

22 hours ago, rasalmon said:

As preserved 1520 has a dynamo and battery boxes, which it never had in service (I presume it gained them in departmental days?) - the set was supplied electrically from the centre coaches.
I'm hopefully they'll do the fourth coach, and produce four-coach sets in SR lined olive and LSWR liveries.  I'd better start saving now!!!

 

Having these later added features missing on a model portraying a preserved sample would not bother me. Preservation has a tendency to add things which they never had in service (in this it was probably BR). Details that are never (or rarely) portrayed on RTR models.

So LSWR set containing Bluebell 1520 and maybe the KESR one could be a good pack.

[Ian J.]

Just got a set today. Nice, even though they were all gone by the time of my closest interest period (1961). I'm using a Rule 1 for running it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

🙂

[SteveyDee68]

Lovely as these coaches are, and despite fitting in (generally) with my interests, I find myself having to deny myself the pleasure of purchasing a set as they are a wee bit on the expensive side (for me, personally)…

 

For now, back to the National Lottery tickets and keeping my fingers crossed…

 

Steve S

[Dunsignalling]

9 hours ago, Ian J. said:

Just got a set today. Nice, even though they were all gone by the time of my closest interest period (1961). I'm using a Rule 1 for running it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

🙂

 

Have you changed the wheels, or just painted the ones that came with it?

 

Either way, it's made a huge improvement to the appearance of the models. 👍

 

John

[Ian J.]

58 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Have you changed the wheels, or just painted the ones that came with it?

 

Either way, it's made a huge improvement to the appearance of the models. 👍

 

John

 

I haven't done anything, they're just as they came out of the box. I think the shadow cast on the wheels due to the central ceiling light is 'hiding' that they do look very bright. I will need to tone them down.

[Ian J.]

8 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Lovely as these coaches are, and despite fitting in (generally) with my interests, I find myself having to deny myself the pleasure of purchasing a set as they are a wee bit on the expensive side (for me, personally)…

 

For now, back to the National Lottery tickets and keeping my fingers crossed…

 

Steve S

 

They are expensive, though they do appear well done, even if the coaches could do with a bit of varnish as they finish is very matt in nature. I just worry that they'll sell out and I'll miss out. That's happened to me too often in the past to be comfortable.

 

I keep my fingers crossed for a lottery win too 🙂🤞

[JohnR]

33 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

 

They are expensive, though they do appear well done, even if the coaches could do with a bit of varnish as they finish is very matt in nature. I just worry that they'll sell out and I'll miss out. That's happened to me too often in the past to be comfortable.

 

I keep my fingers crossed for a lottery win too 🙂🤞

 

I agree. My past and future layouts are western section Southern Region late 50s, so these are bang on. But I just cant afford them right now. 

[Wickham Green too]

17 hours ago, rasalmon said:

... From July 1950 the running number was moved to the right hand end, and some earlier ones were changed (apparently the left hand end was more difficult for guards recording the numbers of the stock in their trains).  ...

The Southern, at least, put a plate with the tare weight on the left hand corner of each end - so a left-handed number was a long way away from it !

[rasalmon]

56 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

The Southern, at least, put a plate with the tare weight on the left hand corner of each end - so a left-handed number was a long way away from it !

That makes sense.  Having moved the number to the right hand end of the bodyside it was adjacent to the Tare and Seating capacity plates, which the Guard would have needed to record.

[rasalmon]

17 hours ago, Garethp8873 said:

So I am understanding that the main issue with the SR examples is the Brake 3rds missing their '3's from the doors"? I am interested in picking up a set, but looking at the comments on the thread, I am not sure what to think at the moment. I would appreciate some guidance and clarification from those who know these sets please.

Being a carriage restorer at 12-inches to the foot scale, I'm probably over-aware of what's authentically correct... as a modeller at OO gauge, they are an extremely good representation of the prototypes, and when running on a layout most will never notice a problem.  They are a classic and widely used set for use on branch lines all over the South-west, a very good choice of prototype for a model manufacturer to have chosen. In LSWR and pre-war days they were used more widely, including on trains to Brighton.  So I am sure those earlier periods will be covered later with the addition of the Full Third (originally 2nd/3rd composite).
 
All I'll probably do to these 1945-livery coaches is add transfers to the passenger doors on the Brakes, and then spray a coat of satin varnish over the bodysides.

[SouthernRegionSteam]

All I can say is that I really wish my next layout was bigger so that I could justify buying a set - they look absolutely splendid!
So much character in these old LSWR sets. I'm very jealous!