Star Wars Andor

[Classsix T]

On 01/12/2022 at 10:51, Gareth Collier said:

I've been a Star Wars fan since watching the original film before it became Episode IV A New Hope.

The Empire Strikes back will always be my favourite as the 'goodies' losing and the 'baddies' winning the day in a film/TV program just didn't happen.

Regarding all the subsequent films Rogue One stands head and shoulders above the rest for reasons already explained further up the thread and for Disney actually allowing the heroes to die unlike any other Disney production.

The prequels were a toughish watch but they did reignite Star Wars and led to all the subsequent output, some great and some even worse. What they did though was create plot holes for the original trilogy which could have been avoided.

The sequels promised so much, The Force Awakens played it safe with the plot then The Last Jedi was a disaster on so many levels and divided the Star Wars fandom. There were so many things wrong that I'd bore you all listing them but in a nutshell all the First Order had to do to stop the slowest ever space pursuit was jump just ahead of the Resistance last remaining ship, turn around and face it head on rather than firing missiles that conveniently fell short and appeared to arc through the gravity free vacuum of space... When JJ Abrahms returned to direct the final film there was little he could do to save the destroyed storyline but IMHO could have done a lot better.

The animated series quality is variable but the Clone Wars was excellent. Moving on to the live action The Mandalorian was good with many nods to the original trilogy whilst The Book of Boba failed and ruined the lore of this much loved character and despite the series being short 2 episodes were Mandalorian episodes!

Obi-Wan was ok (there is a fan edit changing it into a film which makes much more sense and works better but has sadly been taken down).

Andor was also ok, but no more than that. It did show what life was like under the Empire for the ordinary folk but that is the main issue I had with it. Where were the alien species? The population was 99% human for some reason. Budgets restrictions perhaps.

I am an obsessive Star Wars geek and my other hobby is costuming and I am a member of the 501st Legion owning 11 Star Wars costumes which make railway modelling a very cheap hobby.

 

I'll leave you with this - Caravan of Courage: an Ewok Adventure and Ewoks: The Battle for Endor - aaaaaargh!

You caught my attention some time ago with your SW insight Gareth.

 

I loved the fact there was an in-joke in The Mandalorian that Empire Troops can't shoot for sh!t!

 

C6T.

[Damo666]

7 hours ago, scottystitch said:

Okay, if you’re going to watch Clone Wars series’ you’ll need this too:

 

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder

 

Best

 

Scott. 

Ok, WOW!.

 

First, the episodes are all over the place, especially around the 50s, and

Second. There is 133/134 episodes to watch. Now I'm wondering if I have the time for all these!

 

Thanks for the link though, will need a printout of this beside the remote control if I'm to watch all of these.

[MrTea]

On 01/12/2022 at 01:37, jjb1970 said:

Has anyone else been watching Andor? I really enjoyed it, along with Rogue One it's the only really good Star Wars wince the Empire Strikes Back in my opinion.

My daughter (12) and I have just started Andor. I like the vibe of it from the first episode and I’ve heard good things about it from friends and colleagues.
 

We watched the Book of Boba Fett together over the summer. And I watched the Mandalorian on and off over a couple of months. 
 

I think I agree with your assessment overall. I’ve been meaning to watch Rogue One again after enjoying it in the cinema and now I have the perfect excuse!

Edited December 3, 2022 by MrTea

[PaulRhB]

On order of programmes I’d generally agree with the Big Bang Theory, “I prefer to let George Lucas disappoint me in the order he intended” 😉 Get to love Star Wars by watching 4,5 & 6 then get slightly irritated by both Anakins and Jar Jar in 1,2 & 3. Strangely unlike a lot I quite enjoyed 7,8 & 9, more so than 1-3 but less than 4-6 but agree Rogue one is pure class while Solo was interesting but not the rollercoaster it could have been. Bad batch was good as was a lot of the Clone Wars. 
Mandolorian is great and what Boba should have been! They should have left Boba as mysterious and with slightly questionable morals. The best thing in the Book of Fett was Fennec Shand by a mile, give Ming Na Wen a series now! 👍

Obi Wan filled in some holes and liked it but hardly set the world alight. I quite enjoyed the slow burn of Andor too. So only Book of Boba Fett has really dissatisfied me so far. 

 

[scottystitch]

8 hours ago, Damo666 said:

Ok, WOW!.

 

First, the episodes are all over the place, especially around the 50s, and

Second. There is 133/134 episodes to watch. Now I'm wondering if I have the time for all these!

 

Thanks for the link though, will need a printout of this beside the remote control if I'm to watch all of these.

Yes, it’s best to tick them off as you watch, especially if you’re not going to watch every episode in one sitting (!), as you’ll lose track and miss the jumps in the sequence. 
 

Ask me how I know…

 

Best

 

Scott. 

[scottystitch]

1 hour ago, MrTea said:

My daughter (12) and I have just started Andor. I like the vibe of it from the first episode and I’ve heard good things about it from friends and colleagues.
 

We watched the Book of Bobba Fett together over the summer. And I watched the Mandalorian on and off over a couple of months. 
 

I think I agree with your assessment overall. I’ve been meaning to watch Rogue One again after enjoying it in the cinema and now I have the perfect excuse!

As series 2 of Andor is supposed to feed directly into Rogue One, I’m resisting the urge to watch it until then…

 

Best

 

Scott. 

[Gareth Collier]

2 hours ago, scottystitch said:

As series 2 of Andor is supposed to feed directly into Rogue One, I’m resisting the urge to watch it until then…

 

Rogue One directly leads into ANH but you had to wait 39 years so no need to resist the urge to watch it. Sit back and enjoy 🙂

[Gareth Collier]

The biggest disappointment of Andor was the Covid interruption before filming could start at a secret location in Buckinghamshire/Ferrix.

A certain costuming group was due to provide a dozen Stormtroopers but when restrictions were partially relaxed they still prevented us them from being able to be on set and loiter in the background. The first step towards stardom and a Star Wars dream was dashed for us them.

[scottystitch]

2 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

Rogue One directly leads into ANH but you had to wait 39 years so no need to resist the urge to watch it. Sit back and enjoy 🙂

Yes fair enough, but what I meant is I’ll watch Rogue One immediately after series 2. 
 

Its just the way I roll…

 

Best

 

Scott. 

[Steven B]

On 02/12/2022 at 23:16, Classsix T said:

The Bad Batch may well do that but unfortunately it's plainly produced to cater to a younger audience. The movies draw a variously fine line between adequating a wide age range but TBB failed dismally in keeping my attention for more than two episodes purely because it contained all the hackneyed tropes all animated series I've seen before.

 

We enjoyed it because it catered for a younger audience - more fun after a day at works than all the politics of E1-3. 

 

Equally fun was C3POs take on the saga in Droid Tails - often really funny!

 

Steven B

[PenrithBeacon]

One of the things about Clone Wars and Bad Batch is that the intended young audience didn't approach the subject with preconceptions. This enabled the writers to be much more imaginative than usual as the series wore on.

They're worth a watch 

[Reorte]

On 03/12/2022 at 08:58, PaulRhB said:

On order of programmes I’d generally agree with the Big Bang Theory, “I prefer to let George Lucas disappoint me in the order he intended” 😉 Get to love Star Wars by watching 4,5 & 6 then get slightly irritated by both Anakins and Jar Jar in 1,2 & 3. Strangely unlike a lot I quite enjoyed 7,8 & 9, more so than 1-3 but less than 4-6 but agree Rogue one is pure class while Solo was interesting but not the rollercoaster it could have been. Bad batch was good as was a lot of the Clone Wars.

On 7 - 8 - 9 I didn't mind 7, and got a bit of a kick from seeing the Millennium Falcon flying over Derwent Water (a childhood playground for me, my grandparents living there). 8 though, that was the worst of the lot, came out of the cinema in a bad mood after that. Thought 9 was pretty dreadful too but it didn't annoy me in the same way for whatever reason, and it at least had a reasonably decent lightsabre duel; I appreciated that it made them look like human beings who actually get tired, even with Force abilities.

[Gareth Collier]

Episode 8. I have already mentioned the ridiculously slow pursuit through space and how it could have been ended in seconds and did say I wouldn't bore you all with a list of things that annoyed me but here's a few in case anyone wants to discuss them.

Bombers in space - slow moving bombers that drop bombs through the gravity free vacuum of space where someone has to push a release button like a WWII bomber. No shields and the pilot couldn't push the button. What has happened to missile, lasers etc?

The whole resistance fit in a handful of ships against a massive, well equipped military that was allowed to appear from nowhere.

Leia turning into Superman (correct flight pose as well) and surviving the vacuum of space despite never any hint of force powers. Carrie Fisher had passed before release and didn't have much of a subsequent role so that could have been a satisfactory ending for her.

Suddenly you can destroy capital ships by just flying at hyperspace at them. That would have solved a lot of earlier problems, Death Stars? Also Admiral Ackbar was back so it would have been in character for him to pilot the cruiser but instead they bring in Laura Dern, a new character that no one was invested in to make the ultimate sacrifice. No one cared whilst Ackbar was just blown out into space. A moment lost.

They land on a planet that was red but covered in white powder so the convenient fleet of resistance craft that for some reason had to be tethered to the ground could leave red stripes which looked good to the CGI guys.

Hold on, I completely forgot the completely pointless trip to Canto Bight that Rose and Finn took. It had zero impact on anything else so was just a time filler for character they didn't know what to do with.

There is much much more but I'm already getting bored 😉

[Reorte]

12 minutes ago, Gareth Collier said:

Episode 8. I have already mentioned the ridiculously slow pursuit through space and how it could have been ended in seconds and did say I wouldn't bore you all with a list of things that annoyed me but here's a few in case anyone wants to discuss them.

Bombers in space - slow moving bombers that drop bombs through the gravity free vacuum of space where someone has to push a release button like a WWII bomber. No shields and the pilot couldn't push the button. What has happened to missile, lasers etc?

That's where that film lost me. And that was right near the start (not that it got any better). Whilst we've seen that sort of bombing before (TIE Bombers in The Empire Strikes Back bombing the asteroids) that made sense in context, those did not even within the context of extremely ropey Star Wars physics. Suspension of disbelief can only get me so far, and that was far past the line.

[Gareth Collier]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

That's where that film lost me. And that was right near the start (not that it got any better). Whilst we've seen that sort of bombing before (TIE Bombers in The Empire Strikes Back bombing the asteroids) that made sense in context, those did not even within the context of extremely ropey Star Wars physics. Suspension of disbelief can only get me so far, and that was far past the line.

And of course a single x wing can take out every gun turret on a Dreadnought but perhaps Poe had bamboozled them with the 'funny' "holding for General Hux" sketch.

[Steven B]

Perhaps Poe took out all the turrets because their operators were too busy looking up an orange & black x-wing in their SW Combined edition?

 

Steven B.

[PaulRhB]

21 minutes ago, Steven B said:

Perhaps Poe took out all the turrets because their operators were too busy looking up an orange & black x-wing in their SW Combined edition?

 

Steven B.

Would they be able to tell what colour it was or just assume it’s red? 😆

 

 

[didcot]

Is it the engineer in me, but how do the latest X Wings fly? The original films show them with what look like 4 jet engines or the Star War equivalent. But 4 round looking engines that you can imagine have internal parts rotating. The later ones seem to only have 2 engines which once split into the X wing are only semicircular so no rotating internals. Even my son noticed the difference. 

[PaulRhB]

12 minutes ago, didcot said:

Is it the engineer in me, but how do the latest X Wings fly? The original films show them with what look like 4 jet engines or the Star War equivalent. But 4 round looking engines that you can imagine have internal parts rotating. The later ones seem to only have 2 engines which once split into the X wing are only semicircular so no rotating internals. Even my son noticed the difference. 

They’re ‘fusial thrust engines’ 🤣 so some sort of fusion going on but they do refer to turbine nozzles too 😝 The round or semi circular casings are just nice looking, mind you if they’re containing fusion reactions a cylinder is pretty strong compared to any other shape when it goes pop?

 

It may be made up science . . .  😎
 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by PaulRhB

[pete_mcfarlane]

4 hours ago, Gareth Collier said:

Episode 8. I have already mentioned the ridiculously slow pursuit through space and how it could have been ended in seconds and did say I wouldn't bore you all with a list of things that annoyed me but here's a few in case anyone wants to discuss them.

Bombers in space - slow moving bombers that drop bombs through the gravity free vacuum of space where someone has to push a release button like a WWII bomber. No shields and the pilot couldn't push the button. What has happened to missile, lasers etc?

The bomber scene annoyed me as well. Flying bombers slowly over defended targets to drop unguided stuff on them is something that 21st century Earth has long since moved away from (apart from the Russians) but somehow still happens in a Universe with faster than light travel. 

 

Of course, it's possible that there was some kind of Dune/Shields type explanation as to why they had to do it that way, that didn't survive the 457 script rewrites. That seems to be the cause of a lot of films not making sense. 

[Classsix T]

When I was a very much younger person, I asked Dad about a particular scene in some movie, "Why didn't they do that to them to get that?"

"Probably wouldn't make a good film." was the fully accurate retort.

 

My counter to the online vitriol of Ep. 7-9 was usually dismissed with the epithet that the most vocal dissenters are long past being of the age the initial three episodes were meant for.

 

Jar-jar deserves to rot in near eternity in the belly of a Sarlacc...with all the Porgs.

But...

I maintain, Laura Dern hyperjumping her vessel through an enemy command ship is the most awesome cinematic experience I've ever had.

 

I'll forgive much Star Wars bollox because of that scene alone.

 

C6T.

[Reorte]

14 hours ago, Classsix T said:

When I was a very much younger person, I asked Dad about a particular scene in some movie, "Why didn't they do that to them to get that?"

"Probably wouldn't make a good film." was the fully accurate retort.

 

My counter to the online vitriol of Ep. 7-9 was usually dismissed with the epithet that the most vocal dissenters are long past being of the age the initial three episodes were meant for.

 

Jar-jar deserves to rot in near eternity in the belly of a Sarlacc...with all the Porgs.

But...

I maintain, Laura Dern hyperjumping her vessel through an enemy command ship is the most awesome cinematic experience I've ever had.

 

I'll forgive much Star Wars bollox because of that scene alone.

A good film doesn't require actively having to suppress the urge to get annoyed by obvious in-film stupidity, and "looks impressive beats making any sense" doesn't do it for me either. A good film can look impressive and avoid stupidity, it just requires a bit more effort to make (and considering the cost of making a film getting the actual script reasonable should be the least of its problems).

 

I rather vehemently reject "the age the initial three episodes were meant for." That's this implication that they're fundamentally intended to be children's films (although by RotJ it looks like Lucas was starting to think along those lines, and it was the weakest of them for it). They're not children's films, they were just intended to be good old-fashioned fun that children could certainly enjoy, along with anyone else.

[Gareth Collier]

15 hours ago, Classsix T said:

 

I maintain, Laura Dern hyperjumping her vessel through an enemy command ship is the most awesome cinematic experience I've ever had.

 

 

I agree, it was spectacular, but it should have been Ackbar not a character no one knew so had no investment in and as it was so easy to do why sacrifice all those pilots attacking 2 Death Stars when they could have just flown an old cruiser into them.

Basically why stick to the established physics of a series when you can ignore them in favour of special effects.

[Mark Saunders]

The suspension of disbelief really help in some form!

[Reorte]

7 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

The suspension of disbelief really help in some form!

It only gets you so far, and it really shouldn't be relied on by film-makers as a substitute for thinking through their film.

 

Broadly speaking suspension of disbelief is something that should only be used to establish the setting of a fictional world (which can be a very slight variation of the real one, e.g. the real world just with a fictional head of state, or fictional city) through to something like Star Wars, but everything should aim to be internally consistent beyond that. It doesn't mean that all elements of that fictional world need to be introduced right at the start either, but later ones shouldn't contradict earlier ones (either directly or because their absence would result in different actions).

 

These aren't 100% absolute rules, and a film's rubbish if it doesn't stick to them completely - even I'm not that much of a curmudgeon, but the more one diverges from them the worse a film (or any work of fiction) is. After all we expect characters to not suddenly act in a completely different way from one scene or film to the next - most people would mark down any film for that, no matter how serious it's supposed to be, even if it's "better for the story" (what good's a story that has to be so contrived?), so why should other aspects get a pass?

 

It would be a sad world if we couldn't suspend disbelief at all, but taking it far enough to put up with anything isn't much better.