Hornby 2023 Speculation?

[wombatofludham]

6 minutes ago, Combe Martin said:

What I'm suggesting is that multiple units dont excite people as much as a loco hauled passenger train which is why Hornby (and Bachmann) dont make so many of them.

Some people.

I know more than one younger modeller who love units, and are never happier than when repainting RTR into one of the more contemporary liveries (or "real modelling" as some would sniffily describe it).  We've run a few "what-if" sessions on the Dolgellau layout, assuming the line hadn't closed in 1965 and they attracted a number of younger enthusiasts who were pleased to see Arriva and TfW liveried units running.  Hell I even went on the "Last Birmingham Area Class 150" tour some years back despite it not being actually the last in the area, and it was a full 5 car set.

When you hear younger enthusiasts slagging off the new Class 197 units the Welsh Government are treating us to because they are due to replace the fan favourite 158s, units that were derided as "plastic" when they replaced loco hauled regional trains back in the early 1990s, then you know the market is changing and older enthusiasts, some of whom have executive positions in major model making firms, might not be fully plugged into the zeitgeist.

I admit I'm probably an outlier in being 60 and enjoying the modern, unitised railway as much as the "olden days" of "banger blue" but I'm looking at it from a broader perspective.  However, young enthusiasts are very much into units, consider 125s as rateable as my generation did the "Peaks" they replaced, and are bewailing the replacement of BR design units by "modern plastic" just as we did the arrival of the Sprinters.

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, wombatofludham said:

When you hear younger enthusiasts slagging off the new Class 197 units the Welsh Government are treating us to because they are due to replace the fan favourite 158s, units that were derided as "plastic" when they replaced loco hauled regional trains back in the early 1990s,

 

I expect the same is the case when HSTs replaced loco hauled services yet there were loads crying about Hitachis replacing them.

 

I like the 158 and 197. The 197 is definitely better looking than the 195s we get in Yorkshire (although would still have a model of one, it's not about what it looks like really, is it?)

 

When I first got interested in trains it was 158s on my local line, and then 91s and HSTs on the ECML. I do remember being excited when an RES 47 made its way to Scarborough though!

[wombatofludham]

7 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I expect the same is the case when HSTs replaced loco hauled services yet there were loads crying about Hitachis replacing them.

 

The really funny thing is reading the letters pages of "Railway World" when the HSTs were introduced (I still have full volumes from 1972 until it ceased publication) where the then enthusiasts were moaning about the lack of accommodation in fixed formation trains, the hard seats that didn't line up with the windows in some coaches, the smelly brakes, and how were they going to cope with Summer crowds unlike the "Western" and Class 50 hauled trains which could be strengthened.

The public of course loved them.  Nearly 50 years later, so do enthusiasts!  I guarantee if no new role for the "Avanti Voyager/EMT Meridian" fleet shortly to come off lease is forthcoming some enthusiasts will be up in arms they are being replaced by "plastic" Hitachi trains.  Plus ca change...

[e30ftw]

7 hours ago, frobisher said:

 

The Hall, A1/3, P2, Crosti 9F, Peppercorn A1 were tooled specifically for Railroad... Plus all the legacy stuff.  So about on a par with the D&E stuff really.

 

[edit] Also, none of the D&E stuff was specifically tooled for Railroad, just re-motored.

Thanks for all the reply s.

 

My argument would be the Crosti 9f looked a very nice model. Too nice for the railroad badge? Then compare that to a lima 59 with a new motor, or and old tool 31. The A1/A3 look perfectly fine because they update the big pacific s regularly. It shows where they priorities R&D

 

Bachmann have pretty good steam locos but dont seem to target it like Hornby does.

 

Im not saying steam will disappear obviously not but i guess without the figures for sales we will never know.

 

 

 

[Hilux5972]

1 minute ago, e30ftw said:

Bachmann have pretty good steam locos but dont seem to target it like Hornby does.

Maybe that comes from company history as well? Bachmann UK only came around in 1989. Hornby had just recently celebrated 100 years, obviously in a few variations over those years, so that could be part of it. 

[TomScrut]

9 minutes ago, e30ftw said:

Bachmann have pretty good steam locos but dont seem to target it like Hornby does.

 

The other thing that's probably worth noting is that Bachmann do make a lot of steam locos, commissioned by other people.

 

If those commissions didn't take place, would they do more steam by themselves? Whilst there is an argument that "they aren't interested so they need to be commissioned", I think it's more that they are getting the business anyway, don't have to worry about the stock and so why push another agenda too hard? Saturating the market will mean the commissions stay on the shelves longer and mean they happen less often.

[The Johnster]

I think we’ll see a rebranding of Railroad and clearer blue water between it and the ‘full fat’ range, delineated by what has NEM couplers, roughly.  
 

There are certainly wishlist items I’d like to see, not least 2721 and A30 auto trailers retooled to modern standards, but I’m not holding my breath; I’m not alone, but definitely in a minority, in thinking these are low hanging fruit.  There are largeish classes of long-lived widely dispersed steam locos never made in RTR that are arguably lower hanging, such as the LMS Austin 7, Fowler 2-6-2T, and the Churchward 3150, though the latter may be a bit close to the 5101/61xx for Hornby’s taste (or Dapol’s).  
 

Any 1950s industrial jackshaft driven diesel with inside frames and outside motion would go down well, perhaps a retooled 06.  North British, Fowler, and Hudswell Clarke locos of this type were distinctive and had lots of ‘character.  In completely opposite style, a steam Sentinel could perhaps make a Railroad/starter set appearance.   
 

Another possibility is an extension of early period items following the success of Rocket.  We know H are interested in this period from their abortive Titfield Thunderbolt attempt, and while I wouldn’t expect to see Lion, I reckon Northumbrian, Lancashire Witch, Liverpool, Planet, and Patentee with more stock including goods wagons and carriage trucks would fly off the shelves and could start a new modelling genre.  Early railways have a lot going for them from a modelling perspective; short trains, minimal space requirements, no vacuum brake or interlocked signalling details to worry about, and lots of colour and interest.  And it’s steam, but it isn’t dependent on a diminishing demographic of MIGs* like me who remember steam!  It would also confound the rivet counters, since nobody knows the finer details of how these engines or the stock looked in actual service!  Of course, Rapido have an interest here (and might be more suited to pursue it than H), but they don’t seem to be following it up yet

 

I agree that H will have to focus their main attention on TT, and would suggest that a sprinkling of models not available in 00 might tempt some of us who might have been wishlisting for them away from 00!  Time was when the best RTR dmu on the market was Triang’s TT 104…

 

My crystal ball is of course no more accurate than anyone else’s, which is part of the fun of these froth threads

 

 

* Miserable old gits.  

Edited December 24, 2022 by The Johnster

[ThaneofFife]

On 23/12/2022 at 12:10, Blandford1969 said:

With the current squeeze on everyone's pockets I wonder if Hornby might take the view better to not spend on announcing yet more new development, but to just deal with what they have in the pipeline. 

 is that worth an announcement then?   that being the case they could just stick a catch all  statement out now unless they think there is a fear of missing out on the cache of manufacturers making annual or quarterly announcements........

[Mr chapman]

Personally I would like a model of a 317 or something I could renumber and modify easily enough. But that's just because it was the local unit. But I model the southern at grouping.

 

Age 37

[rovex]

Are there any versions of the Flying Scotsman that Hornby haven't done yet?

[adb968008]

5 minutes ago, rovex said:

Are there any versions of the Flying Scotsman that Hornby haven't done yet?

Between January 2006 and January 2016 hasnt been modelled.

 

But if you contact the spares department they might be able help create it.

[adb968008]

18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Grey pound though?

 

Might be worth considering that a twenty year old trainspotter in 1970 is now 72!

 

 

 

Jason

And still wont have seen a new model of a class 81 or 124 in all that time.

Edited December 25, 2022 by adb968008

[AMJ]

Probably the shock announcement is that items previously advised years ago are going to be delivered in March 2023.

 

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

 is that worth an announcement then?   that being the case they could just stick a catch all  statement out now unless they think there is a fear of missing out on the cache of manufacturers making annual or quarterly announcements........

 

They'll have something new to announce, even if it's one or two surprises that are actually on the boat and will be released in Q1.  There will also be a catch up programme of items that have been announced over the last few years, which will finally break cover...

 

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Between January 2006 and January 2016 hasnt been modelled.

 

But if you contact the spares department they might be able help create it.

Wasn't it in a partially dismantled state in the workshop at the NRM for much of that period?

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

Wasn't it in a partially dismantled state in the workshop at the NRM for much of that period?

 

fully dismantled including without cylinders and frame sections.

it cost more to overhaul than Tornado cost to build.

 

But it gives modellers on any budget quite a lot of freedom in what state you want to model it… from some bits of frame in a skip, all the way up to an assembled loco… I believe 3 times in that period.

 

Just add red oxide primer, or black, jobs a good un.

 

no need for a motor.

 

longest period out of action in its history, but arguably needed given its near spotless record since.

Edited December 25, 2022 by adb968008

[Pteremy]

Christmas Past - Hornby

Christmas Present - Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan

Christmas Future - Rapido, Accurascale and similar upstart not so new starts

 

Good luck to TT120 - but I don't see it main-streaming until modellers start using/improving what is available RTR to model something prototypical. That is what got me into modelling in the 1970's - seeing 'catalogue' items pimped up and running on realistic, prototypical layouts, together with well made kits, or scratch builds. The difference now is that we are seeing RTR of a quality and variety that only a kit or scratch build would have provided in the past. 

 

[nathan70000]

They've made some big announcements in the last few years, so I'm anticipating an underwhelming year. I don't mind though, I've already got most of what I want!

 

Nevertheless, here are my guesses:

 

Steam

- I expect at least one retool of a popular locomotive already in the range. I suspect it'll be the 8F, fully equipped for steam and sound.

- One large express locomotive we haven't seen before. I always guess the GWR Saint and it never appears, but with Lady of Legend touring the country I reckon it's a definite possibility this year. The well of big Pacifics has nearly dried up but it would be foolish to rule anything out completely following the W1 and the Turbomotive. Neither The Great Bear nor the four Raven A2s enjoyed a productive working life but if the demand is there Hornby might take the chance.

- A small, delicate 0-4-0T or 0-6-0T. Perhaps a 2721 or J52 retool? A 57xx has been promised in TT:120 so it's reasonable to assume one might turn up OO.

 

Diesel and Electric

 

- I anticipate that a modern, state-of-the-art unit will be announced, possibly a 195 or some variety of Electrostar. I expect Hornby will retreat from the OO mainline diesel market entirely now there are so many competitors in this arena. Post-2000 units could be a profitable niche for Hornby to exploit given the lack of interest shown by other manufacturers.

 

Carriages and Wagons

 

- I expect an Autocoach of some description will almost certainly appear; I'd put money on it! I also predict a pre-grouping coach of some description, probably ex-GER to complement Hornby's large selection of Eastern region steam. Wagon-wise I wouldn't be surprised if the Anhydrite hoppers used on the S&C appear alongside a suitably-numbered 9F.

 

I wish Hornby were a little more creative with their choices. They only rarely take risks, even though when they do it often pays off handsomely! There are many pre-grouping locomotives that I think would be strong sellers; but I don't think we'll see much pre-grouping in this announcement. A B16 would tick many boxes but I can't see Hornby ever making one.

 

[Black 5 Bear]

As most of the the "Design Clever" era models have now been rerun/ updated, I would think an up to date version of 71000 Duke of Gloucester would be in order. Even better if this would feature as a Hornby Dublo version.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

As most of the the "Design Clever" era models have now been rerun/ updated, I would think an up to date version of 71000 Duke of Gloucester would be in order. Even better if this would feature as a Hornby Dublo version.

I'd like to see a de-Crostied Crosti 2-10-0, whether upgraded from the one in original form or not. 

 

Quasi-Hornby Dublo editions of 500 are of no interest or relevance to me, the collectors they are aimed at are welcome to them.

 

John

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Black 5 Bear]

5 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

I'd like to see a de-Crostied Crosti 2-10-0, whether upgraded from one in original form or not. 

 

Quasi-Hornby Dublo editions of 500 are of no interest or relevance to me, the collectors they are aimed at are welcome to them.

 

John

 

Agreed John,

Personally, I did weaken with the HD early BR version of Sir Nigel Gresley.

Looking at the Hornby stand and the updated chassis, I don't think people will be disappointed.

[Robin Brasher]

I am fairly interested in the Quasi-Hornby Dublo locomotives but I have not bought any yet.  Hornby might bring out a 'Coronation' in the Hornby Dublo range to coincide with our new King's coronation. It reminds me of a Wrenn evening in the Sussex Vintage Model Collectors club.  One of our members took a Wrenn 'Coronation' and it creaked and groaned and made it half way round the track.  Someone suggested putting some oil on it. The owner said please don't as it will no longer be a mint model once it has been oiled.

[Dunsignalling]

15 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I am fairly interested in the Quasi-Hornby Dublo locomotives but I have not bought any yet.  Hornby might bring out a 'Coronation' in the Hornby Dublo range to coincide with our new King's coronation. It reminds me of a Wrenn evening in the Sussex Vintage Model Collectors club.  One of our members took a Wrenn 'Coronation' and it creaked and groaned and made it half way round the track.  Someone suggested putting some oil on it. The owner said please don't as it will no longer be a mint model once it has been oiled.

 

It stopped being a mint model as soon as it was put on the track and for some, it would have done so the minute it came out of the box....

 

 

[cctransuk]

1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

It stopped being a mint model as soon as it was put on the track and for some, it would have done so the minute it came out of the box....

 

 

 

I just don't get the mindset of these collectors!

 

Why take it to the club if running it would 'devalue' it? It can only be the 'Look what I've got' syndrome.

 

I despair!

 

CJI.

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, cctransuk said:

 

I just don't get the mindset of these collectors!

 

Why take it to the club if running it would 'devalue' it? It can only be the 'Look what I've got' syndrome.

 

I despair!

 

CJI.

 

In my experience, the old Wrenn stuff was only really fit for collecting as it wasn't up to much in the running department.

 

Not a patch on what had previously come out of Binns Road, even if the bits were the same.

 

John