Hornby 2023 - Bluetooth decoders and control system

[rmnik]

9 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

One question though, if the decoders have serial numbers HM7000_XXXX, where XXXX is a 4 digit hexadecimal number, what happens if they sell more than 65535 decoders????

There can be more than one hex value that corresponds to HM7000_.
So they may display the same but have different hardware addresses.

[NIK]

13 hours ago, ColinB said:

Yes, I spent quite a while looking for it. Looking at the circuit board it does seem high, but who knows. We will have to wait and see. On the old TTS, heat dissipation seemed to be an issue especially when heat shrinked. I used to avoid running those locos on hot days after my HST died on a very hot day.

Hi,

 

I found my Hornby new style HST took 500ma just to turn its wheels on my DC rolling road so I was interested to see the TTS decoder was only rated to 500ma continuous.

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Pmorgancym]

Do they maintain a list of what sounds are available?  I know there's a list of proposed sounds, but I'd like to know what I can play with right now :)

[flyingscotsdan]

Has anyone managed to fit their HST power cars with this yet? I’ve got the correct HM7000 chip in both, set it so

it works as such with a classic DCC controller, switched to Bluetooth, have set them to the same address but cannot get them to work in conjunction with each other without having to operate the sounds in the dummy power car separately.
 

Looking at the CV’s I can see there’s ones for consists etc but I can’t figure it out. 
 

has anyone successfully paired them up and got them running as they should via Bluetooth yet? 

[Bob83a]

In the app click on settings (cog) and then profiles. You do not need any linked device to do this

[meatloaf]

https://support.Hornby.com/hc/en-gb/sections/6430190965522-Additional-Manuals

[Kris]

54 minutes ago, Pmorgancym said:

Do they maintain a list of what sounds are available?  I know there's a list of proposed sounds, but I'd like to know what I can play with right now :)

Current profiles are:

A1/A3 

Class 73

HST (MTU)

HST (Valenta)

08

Class 31

Class 66

Class 56

P2

Princess Coronation 

2P

Britannia Class

4F

Merchant Navy

9F

A4

S15

Black 5

 

[Kris]

Having spent some time playing with the system this morning with my children, I am impressed and so are they.

Pros

It is very easy to use.

The sounds are fine.

The speaker works well and even with a smaller case is still loud. 

The cost.

Easy to set up

 

Cons

Size of chips

Speed of download of profiles.

Limited number of profiles available so far. 

[miles73128]

40 minutes ago, Kris said:

Current profiles are:

A1/A3 

Class 73

HST (MTU)

HST (Valenta)

08

Class 31

Class 66

Class 56

P2

Princess Coronation 

2P

Britannia Class

4F

Merchant Navy

9F

A4

S15

Black 5

 

Just installed my second chip. The class 56 sounds are REALLY good! (Cl 73 already done) I'm loven the ese of use of the App. TXS is impressive!

[JohnR]

1 hour ago, Pmorgancym said:

Do they maintain a list of what sounds are available?  I know there's a list of proposed sounds, but I'd like to know what I can play with right now :)

 

Any word on when a Class 47 will be out?

[Porfuera]

3 hours ago, flyingscotsdan said:

switched to Bluetooth, have set them to the same address but cannot get them to work in conjunction with each other without having to operate the sounds in the dummy power car separately.

 

If I understand your question correctly then the answer is that setting the decoders to the same DCC address doesn't work with Bluetooth because Bluetooth uses the HM7000-xxxx address, which is unique to each decoder and can't be changed - see @RAF96's post here.

 

3 hours ago, flyingscotsdan said:

Looking at the CV’s I can see there’s ones for consists etc but I can’t figure it out.

 

And this post suggests that consists are not currently available in the Bluetooth app but will be added later.

 

Apologies if I've misunderstood, especially as I've not used the app yet because I'm waiting for the Android version.

[phil.prior]

Prices rising on EBay 

[nick_young]

I may have missed a trick here, but on the premise that there is no such thing as a stupid question here goes:

 

I remember back in the day the late Bernard Weller espousing a system called Red Arrow that completely by-passed the track as a source of power and control, relying instead on on-board batteries and (presumably) something like Bluetooth.

 

If HM7000 does something similar, albeit falling back on the DC or DCC track power, but dissociating the command system from the track itself, shouldn't there be significant benefits in reliability, since the DCC signal is no longer dependent on the vagaries of the track connectivity?

 

If so this would overcome my main objections to DCC which are the need to attach droppers to every piece of rail and the opportunity for everything to come to a sudden halt at the slightest hint of a short-circuit. I am speaking as someone who has installed full DCC on a previous layout but has now reverted to DC for the reasons above.

 

I haven't seen improved reliability for people that can't or won't install track electrics to the standards required for faultless DCC running as a benefit for HM7000, but if this is indeed so then it would appear to be a deal-maker for people in the sort of position I find myself in.

 

I wait to stand corrected!

[rmnik]

Regarding R7324 "HM7020: 15V Power Supply Adapter", is this just a straight through cable with the correct connectors or is there some circuitry built in.

 

[Bob83a]

1 hour ago, Porfuera said:

 

If I understand your question correctly then the answer is that setting the decoders to the same DCC address doesn't work with Bluetooth because Bluetooth uses the HM7000-xxxx address, which is unique to each decoder and can't be changed - see @RAF96's post here.

 

 

And this post suggests that consists are not currently available in the Bluetooth app but will be added later.

 

Apologies if I've misunderstood, especially as I've not used the app yet because I'm waiting for the Android version.

Correct

 

CV1.               Short address

CV17/CV18.  Long address

CV19.            Consist address

 

all have no function when using the Bluetooth control from the App. Hence you cannot use them to control the decoders or consists, I.e control more than one decoder.

 

You can use the App to set these values however. You would then need to switch the HM7000 decoder to DCC operation and use a standard DCC system/cab’s to control the decoders. This of course means that you would need to have DCC signals on the track, I.e you could not use a DC controller or simple PSU to power the track

 

 

You can set these

[spamcan61]

46 minutes ago, nick_young said:

I may have missed a trick here, but on the premise that there is no such thing as a stupid question here goes:

 

I remember back in the day the late Bernard Weller espousing a system called Red Arrow that completely by-passed the track as a source of power and control, relying instead on on-board batteries and (presumably) something like Bluetooth.

 

If HM7000 does something similar, albeit falling back on the DC or DCC track power, but dissociating the command system from the track itself, shouldn't there be significant benefits in reliability, since the DCC signal is no longer dependent on the vagaries of the track connectivity?

 

If so this would overcome my main objections to DCC which are the need to attach droppers to every piece of rail and the opportunity for everything to come to a sudden halt at the slightest hint of a short-circuit. I am speaking as someone who has installed full DCC on a previous layout but has now reverted to DC for the reasons above.

 

I haven't seen improved reliability for people that can't or won't install track electrics to the standards required for faultless DCC running as a benefit for HM7000, but if this is indeed so then it would appear to be a deal-maker for people in the sort of position I find myself in.

 

I wait to stand corrected!

In short yes, this separation of control from power is a huge benefit IMHO, somewhere in one of these threads I propose not bothering to wire up the 'difficult' bits of one's train set (frogs, crossings) as there's no longer a requirement for continuous control.

[Bob83a]

46 minutes ago, rmnik said:

Regarding R7324 "HM7020: 15V Power Supply Adapter", is this just a straight through cable with the correct connectors or is there some circuitry built in.

 

Just a cable with the correct connectors for the Hornby 15v PSU.

[WIMorrison]

11 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

In short yes, this separation of control from power is a huge benefit IMHO, somewhere in one of these threads I propose not bothering to wire up the 'difficult' bits of one's train set (frogs, crossings) as there's no longer a requirement for continuous control.

 

Such a huge benefit that this solution, which is now being offered by Hornby, and has substantially been hanging around in the side-lines for many years waiting for people to adopt it? 

 

I think it will be popular for a few months, like all new kids on the block, and then it will just be another offering available in an increasingly confusing line of options available. It certainly will not usurp Zimo, ESU, Soundtraxx, or anyone else though it may entice a few more Hornby users as an entry point towards full DCC operation with all the benefits that come from that.

Edited March 25, 2023 by WIMorrison
spelling

[Bob83a]

Has anyone tried the Legacy Dongle. What is it capable of, e.g how many decoders can it control simultaneously.

 

What DCC systems have you tried it with, Hornby say Elite/Select but no guarantee for any other Expressnet controller.

 

No docs that I can find on the Hornby site.

[Kris]

Here is a video of a 2 bil masquerading as a class 73, or is it the other way around. 

 

 

[spamcan61]

12 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

Such a huge benefit that this solution, which is now being offered by Hornby, and has substantially been hanging around in the side-lines for many years waiting for people to adopt it? 

 

Hornby have done what nobody else has IMHO, they've made BT chips a darned sight cheaper (pretty much half the price of a Blunami) , they've introduced a whole system in one go (more or less...) and they're targeting it at the volume market. I'm not expecting a seismic shift in toy train control, but this is a major devlopment in the mainstream I would say.

[RedgateModels]

17 minutes ago, Bob83a said:

Has anyone tried the Legacy Dongle. What is it capable of, e.g how many decoders can it control simultaneously.

 

What DCC systems have you tried it with, Hornby say Elite/Select but no guarantee for any other Expressnet controller.

 

No docs that I can find on the Hornby site.

It's not out yet, I've one on pre order 

[Porfuera]

1 hour ago, nick_young said:

shouldn't there be significant benefits in reliability, since the DCC signal is no longer dependent on the vagaries of the track connectivity?

 

If so this would overcome my main objections to DCC which are the need to attach droppers to every piece of rail

 

I wait to stand corrected!

 

Not a correction,  just a different point of view from me...

 

The track connectivity is required to supply power to the chip and if the power is cut for any reason then the chip will shut down regardless of where the signal is coming from. Obviously there is the stayalive/powerpack option but it is not always possible to fit these into smaller locos, especially in the smaller scales.

 

Either way, isn't it good practice on either DC or DCC to fit plenty of droppers to ensure continuity of power and to wire points rather than depending on (for example) switch blade contact and rail joiner continuity? Although many people find these reliable enough for DC.

 

Finally, for my money, DCC droppers are far easier to wire in than DC isolating sections and switches but it just comes down to personal preference and what an individual is happiest with.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Porfuera

[Ron Ron Ron]

2 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Hornby have done what nobody else has IMHO, they've made BT chips a darned sight cheaper (pretty much half the price of a Blunami) , .........

 

The pricing is very competitive and certainly a lot cheaper than the SoundTraxx Blunami, even if the sound quality isn't as good

(Note: Blunami is a Tsunami decoder with the added Bluetooth capability. Tsumami sound quality is very good)

 

Early suggestions on here, are that the sound quality is much better than TTS, but short of that from Zimo or LokSound.

What about motor control?

 

If trying to gauge value for money, the added cost of HM7000 decoders, over decent quality budget decoders (£20 - £25), works out roughly as....

£15 - £20 extra for Bluetooth capability (depending on the connector type), plus another.....

£25 extra for the TXS sound.

 

 

.

[JSpencer]

Well I received the 21 pin sound chip version.

I am not sure if there is an issue with mine. First into a Dapol 73. Sounds all work, but under plain DC power (Bachmann Controler), the loco would only move one direction. Eventually it said Motor Overload please reload profile again. 20 minutes later, reloaded but no change.

Swapped power supply to Hornby Elink. Same story.

 

Swapped loco for a 21 pin Bachmann class 24. The chip just beeped constantly with no connection between it and the app. At the same time app kept saying it could not connect to the Network host which may or may not be co-incidence. I mean I cannot believe Hornby would design the thing to be connected to a Network host in order to just run the loco...

Into another Dapol 73 (later production - see photos below). Same story....

 

Overall, frustrating. 20 minutes to load blue tooth sounds, many steps involving removing the loco from the tracks and putting it back in order to reboot it.

Nice sounds, sound box is quite good but failed to run the model. Customer support next to see if it is something that is missed or if this chip has an issue.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by JSpencer