Small Metro builds 2023

[longchap]

11 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Strangely 615 had the older style dishes door, with 616 having the more normal shaped door.

 

Both locos worked the line in the 1920’s and early 30’s.

 

However the issue with 616 is that the coal bunker curve is different at the footplate 🤔

 

To fettle or not to fettle, that is the question !

 

I dare say you could live with either smokebox door, so it comes down to a risk assessement on altering the bunker for 616.

 

I wonder if SEF include alternative bunker parts? I'll go and take a look.

 

 

[longchap]

1 hour ago, longchap said:

I wonder if SEF include alternative bunker parts? I'll go and take a look.

 

 

These are the contents of the bag of large parts and sadly, no alternative bunker, or seemingly much else except the two smokebox doors in the small parts bag.

 

How much fettling is required for 616 and is it feasible?

 

 

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, longchap said:

 

To fettle or not to fettle, that is the question !

 

I dare say you could live with either smokebox door, so it comes down to a risk assessement on altering the bunker for 616.

 

I wonder if SEF include alternative bunker parts? I'll go and take a look.

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

 

These are the contents of the bag of large parts and sadly, no alternative bunker, or seemingly much else except the two smokebox doors in the small parts bag.

 

How much fettling is required for 616 and is it feasible?

 

 

 

I have just got out a set of SEF instructions. There are two can roofs and two smoke box doors in the kit, plus either a full or half cab rear. Only one bunker

 

The SEF etched chassis comes in 3 etches and can be built to )), EM or P4 gauge. The drivers have hornblock cut-outs. The front wheel has no space for hornblocks, but there is provision for some up and down movement

[Neal Ball]

35 minutes ago, longchap said:

 

 

These are the contents of the bag of large parts and sadly, no alternative bunker, or seemingly much else except the two smokebox doors in the small parts bag.

 

How much fettling is required for 616 and is it feasible?

 

 

Thanks for this Bill.

 

The difference is that one is convex and the other is concave!

 

 

I think I will need to live with it! But of course, before I can even think about a second Metro, I need to build the 1st one…. 😎
 

Interestingly as well, 616 seems to have the front cab side finishing further forward as you can see through the handrail.

[Neal Ball]

Further stripping down of the Metro tank happened this afternoon:

 

 

The cab roof has been taken off - two reasons, firstly there were bits of extraneous glue around the roof. But mainly, I wanted to be able to get in and properly detail the cab.

 

Because of the raised floor (unless I don’t need it), it won’t be a full job, but a few bits will be painted in properly. Obviously it will also make adding the crew easier.

[Neal Ball]

Obviously the smokebox door came off to see what space there is going to be for a decoder and speaker.

 

I reckon I can get both into the smokebox - if I go for a Zimo MS480 19mm x 11mm x 3.1mm and a Scurve7 (Sugar cube with a curved top) 15mm x 11mm x 7mm.

 

The decoder will need to be hard wired, so I guess it makes no difference if I go for the 6 or 8 pin version - they are both 4 function.

 

A hefty stay-alive fits snuggly into the bunker.

 

I might add some firebox glow and maybe even a front lamp, I doubt if I will put a Kadee on the front.

 

The decoder order won’t be placed until after the chassis is built, just to check on available space… just in case it can go with the motor.

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

Obviously the smokebox door came off to see what space there is going to be for a decoder and speaker.

 

I reckon I can get both into the smokebox - if I go for a Zimo MS480 19mm x 11mm x 3.1mm and a Scurve7 (Sugar cube with a curved top) 15mm x 11mm x 7mm.

 

The decoder will need to be hard wired, so I guess it makes no difference if I go for the 6 or 8 pin version - they are both 4 function.

 

A hefty stay-alive fits snuggly into the bunker.

 

I might add some firebox glow and maybe even a front lamp, I doubt if I will put a Kadee on the front.

 

The decoder order won’t be placed until after the chassis is built, just to check on available space… just in case it can go with the motor.

I have an MS480 and scurve7 ready and waiting. The stay alive will depend on what I can squeeze in. I have some 0.22F 5.5V caps that are epic but maybe too big. They give a hefty 7 seconds running on my class 45 Peak.

[Andy Keane]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

I have just got out a set of SEF instructions. There are two can roofs and two smoke box doors in the kit, plus either a full or half cab rear. Only one bunker

 

The SEF etched chassis comes in 3 etches and can be built to )), EM or P4 gauge. The drivers have hornblock cut-outs. The front wheel has no space for hornblocks, but there is provision for some up and down movement

The front compensation seems to involve supporting the front axle on a single etch thickness plate running fore and aft with an axle sized hole in it lying on the loco centre line. This allows tilt while the chassis plates limit overall movement. I wonder if this is really a long term solution. The rest of the kit seems very well engineered.

[Siberian Snooper]

A couple of snaps of my chassis progress.

 

 

 

 

I cut the bottom of the ashpan off, as I couldn't get it to sit right, I will see about fitting it, once I have the gearbox position sorted. I have also fitted, but not yet soldered, the reversing gear.

 

No further progress, for a couple of weeks, due to family commitments and a couple of funerals.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Siberian Snooper
excess photos removed

[Andy Keane]

11 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

A couple of snaps of my chassis progress.

 

 

 

 

I cut the bottom of the ashpan off, as I couldn't get it to sit right, I will see about fitting it, once I have the gearbox position sorted. I have also fitted, but not yet soldered, the reversing gear.

 

No further progress, for a couple of weeks, due to family commitments and a couple of funerals.

I think you are using horn blocks, so I assume you will not use the compensation beam in the kit. Do you plan a single balance rod centrally pivoted or one each side? Or maybe it’s just the picture and you are going rigid?

Edited February 2, 2023 by Andy Keane

[relaxinghobby]

I bought the kit new and back dated the bunker at the in pieces stage sawing of the flared top and after assembling the kit with solder built a plasticard top.

You can just see the line above the bunker hand rail. trouble is since this photo a horizontal crack has appeared between the plastic and metal.

 

 

I went for a rigged 4 coupled chassis with the front wheel in oval slots and a wire spring holding it for flexibility. A High Level gearbox keeps the motor forward of the cab space.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by relaxinghobby

[Siberian Snooper]

11 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

I think you are using horn blocks, so I assume you will not use the compensation beam in the kit. Do you plan a single balance rod centrally pivoted or one each side? Or maybe it’s just the picture and you are going rigid?

 

I'm going rigid with this one, I did think about springy beams but decided not to.

 

 

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

A couple of snaps of my chassis progress.

 

 

 

 

I cut the bottom of the ashpan off, as I couldn't get it to sit right, I will see about fitting it, once I have the gearbox position sorted. I have also fitted, but not yet soldered, the reversing gear.

 

No further progress, for a couple of weeks, due to family commitments and a couple of funerals.

 

I think you may well be able to fit small 2mm top hat bearings with a sprung wire(s) attached to the chassis and resting on the axle or bearings. But it looks like a rocking beam could be fitted between the front wheel and the front driver, drive from a fixed rear driver

Edited February 3, 2023 by hayfield

[Siberian Snooper]

21 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I think you may well be able to fit small 2mm tip hat bearings with a sprung wire(s) attached to the chassis and resting on the axle or bearings. But it looks like a rocking beam the front wheel and the front driver could be fitted and drive from a fixed rear driver

 

I will look at that, once I get it running, as an 0-4-0.

 

 

[hayfield]

22 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

 

I will look at that, once I get it running, as an 0-4-0.

 

 

 

The frame spacer has a hole, I cannot see any provision for a beam. Plus you may need a shaped beam owing to height issues

[Andy Keane]

3 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

The frame spacer has a hole, I cannot see any provision for a beam. Plus you may need a shaped beam owing to height issues

The instruction say the central frame spacer has to be cut down from an L to a flat strip to accommodate the rocking beams. The forward frame spacer has a hole in it to take the front axle and act as a pivot if the holes in the frames are opened out vertically into ovals. The only thing I am unclear on is how best to pivot the rocking beams while keeping them close to the frames - others have suggested tubes on the pivot wire to do this.

[hayfield]

I assume with both single and twin beam operation yoy fit a tube between the frames on a rod. The rod is soldered to both framed, the beam(s) are soldered to the tube

[Andy Keane]

4 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I assume with both single and twin beam operation yoy fit a tube between the frames on a rod. The rod is soldered to both framed, the beam(s) are soldered to the tube

John

yes that seems to be the usual way but the instructions in the kit say the pivot should be a 0.5mm dia wire which seems way to fine to me. Further up this thread I have sketched an alternative where each rod is pinned to its respective side frame with a fine wire. This has the attraction of leaving the space between the frames clear. I guess there are many ways to skin this cat.

Andy

[jamieb]

As this thread has shamed me into revisiting my ancient kit and maybe even building it,I need some expert knowledge

I'm looking to build c1920-1924 and I recall my original intention for some reason was to build 1500. I had it at the back of my mind that this loco was allocated to Merthyr around this time which would fit in with my nascent layout.However the Wild Swan allocation book contradicts this so am I totally wrong? I'm sure I've seen a picture of the loco in Merthyr station but can't find it in any of my books 

If I'm wrong, does anyone know of any small Metro's that were in this part of the world in the early 1920s?

[Neal Ball]

Just seen this on Facebook - Might be of interest to someone here... lots of details about the Metro tanks.

 

 

Its in the GWR modellers group.

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, jamieb said:

As this thread has shamed me into revisiting my ancient kit and maybe even building it,I need some expert knowledge

I'm looking to build c1920-1924 and I recall my original intention for some reason was to build 1500. I had it at the back of my mind that this loco was allocated to Merthyr around this time which would fit in with my nascent layout.However the Wild Swan allocation book contradicts this so am I totally wrong? I'm sure I've seen a picture of the loco in Merthyr station but can't find it in any of my books 

If I'm wrong, does anyone know of any small Metro's that were in this part of the world in the early 1920s?

Thre is this page: http://www.gwr.org.uk/no4-coup-tanks.html  but there is also an article in GWRJ that gives shed allocations for several dates.

 

For example the January 1935 allocation says:

Taunton 3582

Exeter 1494

Newton Abbot 1415, 3587

St Blazey 1500, 3590

Truro 1459, 1464, 3581

 

I am not sure if it goes earlier but I could look when I get home.

Andy

[jamieb]

1 hour ago, Andy Keane said:

Thre is this page: http://www.gwr.org.uk/no4-coup-tanks.html  but there is also an article in GWRJ that gives shed allocations for several dates.

 

For example the January 1935 allocation says:

Taunton 3582

Exeter 1494

Newton Abbot 1415, 3587

St Blazey 1500, 3590

Truro 1459, 1464, 3581

 

I am not sure if it goes earlier but I could look when I get home.

Andy

Thanks Andy

If you are referring to GWRJ #4, I have this somewhere and will have a look.I also have both Wild Swan GWR allocation books .I probably imagined it , so will just have to hope a picture of a Metro in the Merthyr area crops up somewhere!

 

[Andy Keane]

21 minutes ago, jamieb said:

Thanks Andy

If you are referring to GWRJ #4, I have this somewhere and will have a look.I also have both Wild Swan GWR allocation books .I probably imagined it , so will just have to hope a picture of a Metro in the Merthyr area crops up somewhere!

 

Yes #4 has the article - it says Merthyr had1445 and 1495 for the year 1935 and 1495 for the year 1938 so maybe 1495 is the answer for you?

And this what she looked like:

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=99509

though how she came to be in Abbotsbury if sheded at Merthyr is anyone's guess.

see also https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=11495&type=S&loco=1495

Edited February 3, 2023 by Andy Keane

[1466]

That looks like an 0-4-2 possibly 517 class to me .

[jamieb]

12 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Yes #4 has the article - it says Merthyr had1445 and 1495 for the year 1935 and 1495 for the year 1938 so maybe 1495 is the answer for you?

And this what she looked like:

https://thetransportlibrary.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=99509

though how she came to be in Abbotsbury if sheded at Merthyr is anyone's guess.

see also https://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=11495&type=S&loco=1495

Thanks Andy 

She wasn't at Abbotsbury by the looks of it,that pic is a 517!