A plea for organisers - please fully describe the layouts !

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, Jonboy said:

For me personally there is a triangle between cost of getting there, entry fee and number of layout that decides whether I am going.
 

I personally wouldn’t read descriptions of every layout and decide on that but then I am simple easily pleased and will find details to interest me once I am there.

I therefore think that anything beyond a one line “oo gwr branch line terminus set in the 1930’s” would normally be wasted on me

I think that's all that's needed - all the info in one spot .

 

If i spot a cluster of interest , i'll extend my driving limit somewhat ... for Heaton mega layout I drive from wiltshire to Yorkshire ( then he announced it was going to , Bath - ish area IIRC ;)) 

 

Traders have a much lower impact . I like to see one big model shop at least , with supporting cast of things like squires . Not so happy if the only trader is " dave's dodgy railways " with his secondhand parade of pre hated lima wagons with cobwebs .

 

But if the layouts are what i'm after , it doesn't matter as i can get 90% online these days 

[Huw Griffiths]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

Traders have a much lower impact . I like to see one big model shop at least , with supporting cast of things like squires . Not so happy if the only trader is " dave's dodgy railways " with his secondhand parade of pre hated lima wagons with cobwebs .

 

Sometimes (but not always), the sort of traders at a show might offer a clue to a show's previous track record with regard to layouts, demos etc.

 

For example, if some of the "big boys" - or specialists - consider it worth their while to be at a show, this might suggest that, as I heard one guy comment at a show last year: "They don't invite rubbish here." In turn, this might point to a possibility of there usually being something worth going to see.

 

On the other hand, "trade support" either unspecified or consisting merely of one "bring up and buy" merchant - and "that's your lot" - might suggest something different.

 

(Incidentally, I quite liked your description of the sort of trader I would not travel far to see.)

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Huw Griffiths

[The White Rabbit]

Perhaps we could take a leaf out of the professional recruitment/marketing book? Reducing things to the most basic level, surely it's a case of 'please come and see layout X'? (Or come and scoff our cake/support this worthy cause)? And to preempt the retort of 'why?', then let's give the 'punters' a good reason and capture their interest. 

 

Organisers are often dependent on what's provided and (I speak from experience) do not always have time to go chasing after clarification or further details. Maybe I'm just a soft touch but I worked on the basis of giving managers what I thought they'd need - name, basic details, a write-up they could use for the programme (and stuff not for public knowledge such as insurance value, expenses, power requirements, space etc.). As an example of the material for public consumption, let's say, give a one sentence summary, followed by a more detailed write-up with a minimum of subjective terms. As an example of the former:

 

Burniston

 

A OO portable layout, built by newcomers to modelling and using commonly available kits and parts, representing a seaside terminus layout on the Bristol Channel in the 1950s/1960s. 

 

Then there'd be about 200 words going into more detail, with a photo or two - and even a track-plan! Designed to be copied and pasted into an exhibition programme, usually verbatim what was displayed on the front of the layout. 

 

Whether and how the organisers used this material would be up to them but we'd have done our bit. Personally, I'd normally only expect the single sentence to be used in any list of layouts attending and to take the part of a precis on a CV: aimed to capture someone's interest, whether the subject is one they naturally gravitate towards or think it's maybe worth having a look at out of curiosity. 

 

 

[BachelorBoy]

6 hours ago, The White Rabbit said:

Burniston

 

A OO portable layout, built by newcomers to modelling and using commonly available kits and parts, representing a seaside terminus layout on the Bristol Channel in the 1950s/1960s. 

 

That's great. Just the sort of thing Would be useful for press releases to local paper too. Details like that will make a preview article more likely as it gives the journalists more to work with. 

 

(Constructive criticism: the word "portable" is superfluous, I think, as surely all layouts at an exhibition need to be portable to get there? :) )

 

 

[The White Rabbit]

7 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

That's great. Just the sort of thing would be useful for press releases to local paper too. Details like that will make a preview article more likely as it gives the journalists more to work with. 

 

(Constructive criticism: the word "portable" is superfluous, I think, as surely all layouts at an exhibition need to be portable to get there? :) )

 

Thanks. Yes, my experience in PR has been that many journalists are under a lot of pressure and giving them the basics in an easy to use package is much appreciated. 

 

Re 'portable' - yes, fair point ... though some exhibitions are more club open days and some clubs have layouts which don't leave the club rooms  ... 😉  And some layouts which do are more transportable - preferably with a large team of helpers - than easily 'portable' and moved by one person, so I probably over stress the portability of that particular layout. I digress but I remember one show where we showed one visitor the folding legs we used for the layout. He was very interested, as not being able to use or devise something suitable had until then held him back from building a layout and he reckoned if he used 'our' scheme, he could. 

[Andy Hayter]

 

LAYOUT NAMEGAUGE SCALE

Bunkers LaneOn9

IngatestoneOO

Norwich CentralOfs

Hook Basin 

Whiteleaf Light Railway (G)G

New SodburyOO

Knott LittlefieldN

NorgeHO

Templegate Wagon WorksO

Moretonhampstead2mm fs

Plumpton GreenP4

KingsburyO fs

ArcadiaS

East Lynn QuayS

McKinley RailwayOO

St Etienne-en-CauxHOe

PwllheliP4

Reevy Road WestOO

Wolfe LoweO

WestwickN

LakesideHO USA

Bristol Goods ShedO scale broad gauge

Melton Mowbray (North)N

WestcliffEM

Hartley Poole TooN

WolfstattHO

HRCA (O)O

Copper WortOO

Blackfriars BridgeP4

Strood DockO

Dovington CampOO

Spirit of SwindonN

Strood DockO

AlderfordOO

Blowers Green Wagon RepairO

North BallachulishEM

Launceston Steam RailwayOO9

Bow JunctionO fs

Falcon RoadOO

James StreetN

Fulton TerminalHO USA

WWI Winter in France                                  OO9   

 

a perfect example of how to not attract visitors

 

Some of these I know.

Some i can make useful guesses

The rest???

and no I am not going to Google all of the layouts.

 

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/information/the-london-festival-of-railway-modelling-layout

 

[rob D2]

Not ideal !

I recognise a couple of target layouts in there , but it would be nice to know about the rest .

[AY Mod]

39 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Not ideal !

I recognise a couple of target layouts in there , but it would be nice to know about the rest .

 

I've already said that I'll try and get something done about it. Gimme a chance!

 

[Not Jeremy]

3 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

LAYOUT NAMEGAUGE SCALE

Bunkers LaneOn9

IngatestoneOO

Norwich CentralOfs

Hook Basin 

Whiteleaf Light Railway (G)G

New SodburyOO

Knott LittlefieldN

NorgeHO

Templegate Wagon WorksO

Moretonhampstead2mm fs

Plumpton GreenP4

KingsburyO fs

ArcadiaS

East Lynn QuayS

McKinley RailwayOO

St Etienne-en-CauxHOe

PwllheliP4

Reevy Road WestOO

Wolfe LoweO

WestwickN

LakesideHO USA

Bristol Goods ShedO scale broad gauge

Melton Mowbray (North)N

WestcliffEM

Hartley Poole TooN

WolfstattHO

HRCA (O)O

Copper WortOO

Blackfriars BridgeP4

Strood DockO

Dovington CampOO

Spirit of SwindonN

Strood DockO

AlderfordOO

Blowers Green Wagon RepairO

North BallachulishEM

Launceston Steam RailwayOO9

Bow JunctionO fs

Falcon RoadOO

James StreetN

Fulton TerminalHO USA

WWI Winter in France                                  OO9   

 

a perfect example of how to not attract visitors

 

Some of these I know.

Some i can make useful guesses

The rest???

and no I am not going to Google all of the layouts.

 

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/information/the-london-festival-of-railway-modelling-layout

 

Please don’t ever come to any show I ever organise, you’d be sure to find something to complain about!

 

FFS

[Andy Hayter]

The choice for me to come to a UK exhibition is a £500 decision.  I doubt you would be able to entice me.  Ali Pali is now pricing itself out of the equation since the cost of hotels and to a much lesser extent flights rise day on day.

[rob D2]

8 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I've already said that I'll try and get something done about it. Gimme a chance!

 

Yeah I know Andy, the other Andy may not have seen that earlier in the thread I guess and I think just used it as an example, I dont  anyone’s singling out your gig for extra criticism .

[goldfish]

On 08/02/2023 at 12:39, AY Mod said:

 

We didn't get called as defence witnesses to this kangaroo court.

 

Yes, I personally accept that more information could be provided and we will discuss this at a future meeting and see if we can improve it. Previously the exhibition content was listed by the exhibition department staff who may not have appreciated, or had any feedback, to say more detail would be appreciated by prospective customers and the practice has carried over to the editorial team who have had more responsibility for communicating with layout owners and thus translate the information onto the web page. Pre-Covid I often provided more imagery and layout details within the topic on here but we, all, are often over-stretched with the tasks that need to be done let alone looking for where improvements could be made.

 

My apologies, I missed this response, and did not mean to single out the the organizers of this particular show for criticism. I simply meant to point out that even the best organized and well run shows can miss things like this. It was particularly noticeable because the rest of the website is a classic example of how these things should be done. Again my apologies I should have phrased my comment more carefully.

[stan williams]

I am losing sleep, thinking about all the exhibition managers around the country, walking the floor all night

and pulling their hair out desperate to attract a handful of railway modellers that frequent forums.

Stan.

[BMacdermott]

Hello everyone

 

I think rob D2's OP was perfectly reasonable and achievable by any show organiser. (Granted that I have never organised a model railway show myself but have done similar things.)

 

Surely, they already have to know the layout name and size for planning purposes. The only addition is a line of description. That one line can often convince me to go to a show that I might otherwise not. And I have to be very selective nowadays for a number of reasons.

 

An example:

 

Lordnoseware

00, 25ft x 12ft. A fictional country station set on the Somerset & Dorset Line in 1960. Snorking Model Railway Club.

 

Brian

[Claude_Dreyfus]

23 minutes ago, stan williams said:

I am losing sleep, thinking about all the exhibition managers around the country, walking the floor all night

and pulling their hair out desperate to attract a handful of railway modellers that frequent forums.

Stan.

What, by telling potential customers what they are actually offering? So far I have seen nothing unreasonable about the OP's request. The counter-arguments seem to run something along these lines or telling him he is being selfish.

 

Your comment also ignores the fact that there is a lot of competition between leisure activities. Railway exhibitions are competing for our money and time just as other events and activities. If an exhibition manager can attract just 'a handful of railway modellers that frequent forums' by having an additional line of information in their layout list describing the era and location, that that could make the difference between the show making a profit and one that makes a loss.

 

Is that really such an unreasonable suggestion?

 

But hey, let's all make fatuous comments instead of thinking, 'actually that approach could gain my show a couple more visitors' for just a few minutes extra work. Organisers do, after all, know what layouts they are inviting*.

 

 

* Aware that this can of worms has been opened in other threads on here ..

[Not Jeremy]

2 hours ago, Claude_Dreyfus said:

What, by telling potential customers what they are actually offering? So far I have seen nothing unreasonable about the OP's request. The counter-arguments seem to run something along these lines or telling him he is being selfish.

 

Your comment also ignores the fact that there is a lot of competition between leisure activities. Railway exhibitions are competing for our money and time just as other events and activities. If an exhibition manager can attract just 'a handful of railway modellers that frequent forums' by having an additional line of information in their layout list describing the era and location, that that could make the difference between the show making a profit and one that makes a loss.

 

Is that really such an unreasonable suggestion?

 

But hey, let's all make fatuous comments instead of thinking, 'actually that approach could gain my show a couple more visitors' for just a few minutes extra work. Organisers do, after all, know what layouts they are inviting*.

 

 

* Aware that this can of worms has been opened in other threads on here ..

You too buddy, just stay away - please!

Edited February 12, 2023 by Not Jeremy
adding "Bachelor Boy" and others to the list of the "great unwanted"

[Claude_Dreyfus]

42 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

You too buddy, just keep away - please!

Sorry, not sure what you mean?

 

 

Ah, I get the context now. Okay, fair enough, I am not welcome to any of the shows you organise for disagreeing with you on a discussion forum... 

 

 

Just as an aside, I have organised small shows in the past, and yes I have fretted about whether or not the show will be successful. The last thing I want is for our club to lose money, so if something as simple as this can get just a couple more punters through the door, then great! If simply doing this gets a show a few more visitors - you are hardly likely to put visitors off if you have a decent range of layouts on offer - then that is a good thing.

 

The important thing is that nobody is demanding organisers do this. If they don't want to, then fine. Just seems odd that you would not want to maximise your offering with a little more information.

Edited February 12, 2023 by Claude_Dreyfus
Penny dropped

[BachelorBoy]

23 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

You too buddy, just keep away - please!

 

This is bizarre.

 

An exhibition organiser telling potential visitors to stay away because they want a bit more information on what's in an exhibition. 

 

I see John Cleese wants to revive Fawlty Towers. Perhaps he should set it in a model railway club.

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

On 07/02/2023 at 19:40, rob D2 said:

I go to shows to see layouts , layouts that might interest me ….for me that’s BR blue , or anything from then up to now in diesel format . I’m not too worried about region , but my bias is western.

 

So when I see a list of layouts  “ smiths town 00, small town Z gauge, any town O gauge “, it means nothing , and there is the possibility none of them will interest me

If I might quote the OP, I have highlighted the parts that - in my opinion - may have raised hackles/opened the can of worms.

Nothing wrong or unreasonable about the request for more information about layouts, but is it really the case that if there's not at least one or more layouts at a Show that fit in precisely with someone's interests, that they will find NOTHING of interest, AT ALL, and by implication, not attend...???? 

As I said in my first response, I wouldn't attend any Shows if I applied such a viewpoint. I think that is where the problem has arised from in this Thread, not the simple request for more information.

[BMacdermott]

Hello F-unit Mad

 

In response to above...

 

I attend two local club shows without needing to know layout details. I go to support them and generally - but not always - find something or much to interest me. I sometimes bump into people I know for a chat.

 

I also attend a 'national' show which is held locally and that is mainly to speak to some of the makers. 

 

All others shows within a reasonable travel distance have to 'convince me' to attend and that is simply as per my example above. Not difficult or unreasonable in my view.

 

Brian

[Andy Hayter]

13 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I've already said that I'll try and get something done about it. Gimme a chance!

 

 

My apologies Andy.  I just dropped into this thread on page 4 and had not realised that the issue of Ali paly had already been raised and replied to.

[Flying Pig]

34 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

If I might quote the OP, I have highlighted the parts that - in my opinion - may have raised hackles/opened the can of worms.

Nothing wrong or unreasonable about the request for more information about layouts, but is it really the case that if there's not at least one or more layouts at a Show that fit in precisely with someone's interests, that they will find NOTHING of interest, AT ALL, and by implication, not attend...???? 

As I said in my first response, I wouldn't attend any Shows if I applied such a viewpoint. I think that is where the problem has arised from in this Thread, not the simple request for more information.

 

Some people have very specific interests.  That's perfectly fine and there's no reason to see it as an implied criticism of everything else.  They aren't lesser human beings for it.

 

It certainly isn't an excuse for some of the overt nastiness that has surfaced on this thread.

[Legend]

Everyone’s different. Some people have broader model railway interests , with others it’s more narrow modelling a particular company or time period . Neither is right or wrong it’s whatever floats your boat. I can’t see there was anything wrong in the OPs request which would help identifying which shows are more his interest . Seems eminently sensible to me and really not much work extra , if any at all . Surely exhibition managers should be doing what they can to attract people to shows not tell them to stay away . 
 

if people don’t supply this information I think my question would be why not . Is it a relatively small show or  maybe containing layouts that have previously appeared a good few times and they think people might not attend to see . 

[PaulRhB]

So in summary, it would be nice to include some basic details to help a portion of the audience decide if it’s worth going.
Exhibition managers can decide if their need for more punters justifies doing it.

Some will vote with their feet by not going because they don’t know others will just go along anyway on the off chance of something inspiring or a bargain. 

The topic raises a point some might have missed so it’s a valid one :) 

[Not Jeremy]

5 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Yeah I know Andy, the other Andy may not have seen that earlier in the thread I guess and I think just used it as an example, I dont  anyone’s singling out your gig for extra criticism .

 

Oh, that's all right then, just the "standard level"of criticism then.....