Blue Pullman miscellany

[Captain Slough]

another weekend day, another load retrieved from the parental attic to dispose of

 

Thought this might entertain. The train set below is a Blue Pullman in BR corporate blue-grey - a livery they never wore in real life.  For comparison, also a Grey-blue pullman which is a prototypical livery, and a somewhat careworn "original" driving trailer from my spares box with the original Nanking Blue livery

 

the model was introduced by Triang in Nanking Blue with white windows, flushglazed, and the windows are a separate moulding with white paint on transparent plastic press-fitted into the bodyshell. aftermarket window sets to model the kitchen car are still available for this run of models

 

the Nanking blue, flushglazed Pullman DMU was also sold as a later release with full wraparound yellow ends and a vanishingly rare version of this from about 1967 has white windows, yellow ends and a body in BR Monastral blue. this was a factory production error and about 350 were made with only a single documented survivor, according to the Triang Collectors club

 

the grey with blue windows version has revised mouldings and the windows are individually moulded and its no longer flushglazed - a step backward done to simplify mask-and-paint ops that prevented them ever doing another run of original livery units

 

the final run of these units around 1970 as in the boxed set used the Grey-blue unit masking setup, BR Monastral blue and BR Grey for the window stripe but Pullman motifs from the original livery version

I was always tempted to do my spare driving trailer up in Umber & Cream. Only the pain involved in lining and transferring-up my homebrew Brighton Belle stopped me.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Captain Slough
Have the typing skills of a potato

[andyman7]

That set is interesting in a number of ways - not just the final issue of the Blue Pullman with the revised window mouldings and smooth treaded driving wheels, but also that it was offered uniquely with a mains power controller (the R915) - although of course you still had to fit the plug! VAT replaced Purchase Tax in 1973 so I suspect this was the first time a mains controller could be included without the whole set incurring a different tax penalty; although it was not until 1980 that all sets included a mains power controller (normally the R911 or R912).

[sandwich station]

On 20/03/2023 at 05:03, Captain Slough said:

the Nanking blue, flushglazed Pullman DMU was also sold as a later release with full wraparound yellow ends and a vanishingly rare version of this from about 1967 has white windows, yellow ends and a body in BR Monastral blue. this was a factory production error and about 350 were made with only a single documented survivor, according to the Triang Collectors club

 

I think I have one of those. I have several Midland Pullman sets and one of them is definitely darker in colour. I'll have a look when I get time,

[BernardTPM]

The odd thing there is that Triang Hornby at first used a bright shade of blue* rather than a 'proper' Rail Blue for the Corporate Image. That changed around 1968/69 when they began to use a darker shade of blue plastic. I don't think the Mk.2 coaches were ever sold in the lighter blue plastic (perhaps test mouldings might have been), but the diesels and electrics plus the Mk.1s were.

 

* used as 'Electric Blue' for the AL1 and EM2.

[sandwich station]

18 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

The odd thing there is that Triang Hornby at first used a bright shade of blue* rather than a 'proper' Rail Blue for the Corporate Image. That changed around 1968/69 when they began to use a darker shade of blue plastic. I don't think the Mk.2 coaches were ever sold in the lighter blue plastic (perhaps test mouldings might have been), but the diesels and electrics plus the Mk.1s were.

 

* used as 'Electric Blue' for the AL1 and EM2.

 

All diesels and electrics except the class 37 and 08.

[sandwich station]

On 11/04/2023 at 16:52, sandwich station said:

 

I think I have one of those. I have several Midland Pullman sets and one of them is definitely darker in colour. I'll have a look when I get time,

 

It would appear that I have 2 of the darker sets. I've also included an 08 shunter in rail blue and a nanking blue pullman for comparison.  

[Captain Slough]

yup, thats definitely the rare one. Pretty much the rarest Triang-Hornby model variant ever made..

[Hroth]

As far as I'm concerned, none of the Pullman models with the "dipped in custard" front ends do it for me.  Plain Nanking Blue is the only True Livery!

 

Mind you, I've long thought that British Rail didn't think outside the box enough with the Midland Pullman concept.  With a bit more development, once they had the first Midland units in service, it would have made an ideal "ordinary" express set* for lines that would have taken years to electrify.  I'm toying with getting a Triang set and repainting it in dmu green with small yellow panels on the front ends to represent such a development...

 

* A sort of precursor to the HST concept, but not quite as fast, say 100-105mph, to allow the eventual development of the HST.

[cctransuk]

59 minutes ago, Hroth said:

I'm toying with getting a Triang set and repainting it in dmu green with small yellow panels ....

 

How about coaching stock lined maroon - as per the Clacton express EMUs?

 

CJI.

[kevinlms]

2 hours ago, Hroth said:

As far as I'm concerned, none of the Pullman models with the "dipped in custard" front ends do it for me.  Plain Nanking Blue is the only True Livery!

 

Mind you, I've long thought that British Rail didn't think outside the box enough with the Midland Pullman concept.  With a bit more development, once they had the first Midland units in service, it would have made an ideal "ordinary" express set* for lines that would have taken years to electrify.  I'm toying with getting a Triang set and repainting it in dmu green with small yellow panels on the front ends to represent such a development...

 

* A sort of precursor to the HST concept, but not quite as fast, say 100-105mph, to allow the eventual development of the HST.

I thought the problem was that their riding was rough? Plus a little underpowered.

[Captain Slough]

I think the world needs to see the following on a Triang blue pullman;

BR Green with SYWP
Express maroon
Umber & Cream pullman livery

 

If powering it on a modern layout is a problem - Hornby HST chassis (original type) only needs 1/2 of a mm filed off it widthwise to fit in a Triang Blue pullman bodyshell. just cut off the end & middle section and insert on either side of the original Triang underframe - then you can use ringfield power. The Hornby HST motor bogie has a greater resemblance to the BP power bogie than the Triang original anyway

[Michael Hodgson]

3 hours ago, Hroth said:

As far as I'm concerned, none of the Pullman models with the "dipped in custard" front ends do it for me.  Plain Nanking Blue is the only True Livery!

 

Mind you, I've long thought that British Rail didn't think outside the box enough with the Midland Pullman concept.  With a bit more development, once they had the first Midland units in service, it would have made an ideal "ordinary" express set* for lines that would have taken years to electrify.  I'm toying with getting a Triang set and repainting it in dmu green with small yellow panels on the front ends to represent such a development...

 

* A sort of precursor to the HST concept, but not quite as fast, say 100-105mph, to allow the eventual development of the HST.

I'm with you on the livery, the yellow front ends spoiled their appearance, not that I was very keen on the later reversed livey of grey and blue either. 

 

The LMR issued a special instruction that Diesel Electric Pullman trains were to be signalled using the special Is Line Clear signal of 4-4-6.  I don't know whether this implied different point-to-point timings, their prioirty over other traffic or possiby issues to do with braking.

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

I thought the problem was that their riding was rough? Plus a little underpowered.

 

Apparently so - but nothing that could not have been remedied on a squadron fleet.

 

CJI.

[andyman7]

On 12/04/2023 at 07:32, sandwich station said:

 

All diesels and electrics except the class 37 and 08.

The 37 at least also exists in 'bright blue' but it is very hard to find.

[sandwich station]

12 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

The 37 at least also exists in 'bright blue' but it is very hard to find.

 

I have never seen any mention of this anywhere. As far as I'm aware both locos went from green to rail blue.

[andyman7]

31 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

 

I have never seen any mention of this anywhere. As far as I'm aware both locos went from green to rail blue.

I've been collecting Triang for around 35 years and I have seen two in that time. Back then I avoided buying them because they are the wrong colour, but I wish I had now...

[sandwich station]

I've been collecting Triang since the 1960's and have never seen a lighter blue 37. According to Pat Hammond, he says it appears that the 37 was never made in that colour.

 

If one does exist, I would love to see it.

[andyman7]

44 minutes ago, sandwich station said:

I've been collecting Triang since the 1960's and have never seen a lighter blue 37. According to Pat Hammond, he says it appears that the 37 was never made in that colour.

 

If one does exist, I would love to see it.

It's a good challenge, and I'm well aware of false memory syndrome but I do have a distinct memory of seeing at the very least one. I  am as keen as you (for my own sake) to see if we could find an example! Pat's records are excellent but like all of us not perfect as there simply isn't a 100% record of what came out of the factory.

[roythebus1]

I'm still thinking of grafting a Blue Pullman front on an HST power car as a "what if" model. with Mk3 trailers.

 

[Captain Slough]

Mk2D works better with Blue Pullman motor cars as the windows are nearly the right shape

[sandwich station]

I've seen sets made up with mk2D's and shorty mk3's both look good.

[BernardTPM]

On 19/04/2023 at 11:59, Hroth said:

I've long thought that British Rail didn't think outside the box enough with the Midland Pullman concept.  With a bit more development, once they had the first Midland units in service, it would have made an ideal "ordinary" express set for lines that would have taken years to electrify. 

I did something like that for the Imaginary Locomotives thread.

Power car with twin engines. Coach is basically the same shell as per Blue Pullman but, lacking air conditioning, the windows are the same as for the Metro. Cam. Mk.1 Pullmans, riding on B4 bogies.

Edited April 24, 2023 by BernardTPM

[sandwich station]

On 20/04/2023 at 18:25, andyman7 said:

It's a good challenge, and I'm well aware of false memory syndrome but I do have a distinct memory of seeing at the very least one. I  am as keen as you (for my own sake) to see if we could find an example! Pat's records are excellent but like all of us not perfect as there simply isn't a 100% record of what came out of the factory.

 

Andyman7, I have found one. :)   

 

The top 3 are all the same except colour. However, the bottom one, although looks the same as the one above, has had the chassis and body modified and the chassis has been turned round.

[andyman7]

18 hours ago, sandwich station said:

 

Andyman7, I have found one. :)   

 

The top 3 are all the same except colour. However, the bottom one, although looks the same as the one above, has had the chassis and body modified and the chassis has been turned round.

Thanks. The chassis end swap is a real oddity, I have one of these too and it is related to moving the chassis slot end from the headcode box to just below, apparently as a precursor to adding lights which never happened. However I have no idea why it was deemed necessary to turn the chassis round (especially as the underbody tanks were now the wrong way round relative to the body)

[darkstar]

Saw mention of a BR Blue Pullman.

Are they rare as I've found this listing on eBay that claims to be one.

Certainly looks it from the colour comparison.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256250282073?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=jFNwAufNRVO&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=jFNwAufNRVO&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

I collect Blue Pullmans, all variants of it, HST, Class 47, Bachmann and the classic Triang.