N gauge size differences

[clayton4115]

Hi all

 

I have several American N scale locos and also wagons and passenger cars. All was good till I purchased an Australian loco and some freight cars.  The freight cars are Kato from Japan and Japanese wheat wagons.

The first thing I noticed is that the Australian locos and wagons look a lot smaller than their American and Japanese counterparts, this is really bugging me and doesn't look good on my layout.

I didn't realise there was a difference in "size" in N Scale?

 

Aussie freight cars on left,  Japanese on right  https://photos.app.goo.gl/NiySdaBT7EmTaJSG7

 

Aussie loco on right of Japanese freight car - loco looks small compared to grain hopper, with an American loco it looks perfect size https://photos.app.goo.gl/aiCAjX2gX5WsRhJa8

[DCB]

Well N gauge is 9mm gauge.  UK N is 1 :148 scale ish,   US and most of Europe is 1:160   Kato (Japan) is 1:150 but seem to use 9mm for both modern 4ft 8" ish and also the old  Japanese standard gauge 3ft 6" stock.  Lord knows what the Aussies use, half their railway was 3ft 6" and some 5ft something all over the place really.  It isn't usually a problem if you keep locos and stock form the same continent together. Japanese US and Australian trains don't regularly meet. Especially as they are several different gauges  But it can be a PITA as with 4mm where I want some 00 scale US Bogie hoppers and they are almost all H0 or 60 year old Triang.   

 

[clayton4115]

26 minutes ago, DCB said:

Well N gauge is 9mm gauge.  UK N is 1 :148 scale ish,   US and most of Europe is 1:160   Kato (Japan) is 1:150 but seem to use 9mm for both modern 4ft 8" ish and also the old  Japanese standard gauge 3ft 6" stock.  Lord knows what the Aussies use, half their railway was 3ft 6" and some 5ft something all over the place really.  It isn't usually a problem if you keep locos and stock form the same continent together. Japanese US and Australian trains don't regularly meet. Especially as they are several different gauges  But it can be a PITA as with 4mm where I want some 00 scale US Bogie hoppers and they are almost all H0 or 60 year old Triang.   

 

 

Yes thanks for your reply, it looks like I will  have to just stick to one country with locos and rolling stock.

 

 

[Il Grifone]

I would have thought Australian and American stock would be roughly the same size, but Japanese would be smaller, especially on 3' 62 gauge (don't quote me on that!).

 

00 scale US stock should be available but it is rather a minority scale over there so not easy to find. As their 00 scale uses 19mm gauge  regauging will be necessary.

[kevinlms]

Those Australian wagons look like coal hoppers from NSW, so the gauge of them would be standard gauge. Almost all Australian HO models are made as if they were running on 4'8 1/2". For most modellers, 3'6" and 5'3" doesn't exist, but the lines were all built or converted to standard gauge!

 

But I realise the question is related to N Gauge, so disregard HO ramblings!

Edited March 27, 2023 by kevinlms
More info

[clayton4115]

Thanks Kevin so this is a perplexing issue that no one really has a definite answer to, why is N Scale "sizes" different? In HO I would assume they all have the same "size" no matter the country / region. 

 

 

[njee20]

The problem is that you’re conflating all sorts of potential issues. This isn’t really an N gauge specific thing. 
 

1. they could be a physical different scale (like British N is 1:148, US/Europe is 1:160), this is possible given Australian models are a bit of a mash up IRL. 

 

2. it could be that the actual prototypes are physically different sizes (British N often sizes up quite well to US, despite their rolling stock being far larger in real life), this is why Japanese models at 1:160 (which tends only to be the Shinkansen) are smaller than US models, or

 

3. it could be that one or both items are modelled inaccurately. 

 

Without knowing the specific items of stock it’s hard to work out which of those it is. Not sure I can quite get my head around being happy to run stock from entirely different continents but then being dissatisfied that they don’t match. 

[John M Upton]

Lima was an odd example with their short lived N scale range. 

 

The Deltic and 31 were way too big, the range was padded out with continental wagons in BR colours (or rather, vague approximations there of) which were too small, the Mk 1 coaches were another completely different random scale and yet their CCT van was spot on and still holds up to this day, pizza cutter wheels notwithstanding. 

[Izzy]

9 hours ago, clayton4115 said:

Thanks Kevin so this is a perplexing issue that no one really has a definite answer to, why is N Scale "sizes" different? In HO I would assume they all have the same "size" no matter the country / region. 

 

 

The thing is N gauge isn’t a scale as such, like others are. So the actual scale of models varies to keep the body sizes in keeping with the track gauge,as has been stated rather than the gauge varies as with such as 4mm/7mm etc. Of course it’s all just sold primarily as N gauge just like OO, HO, or O which is where all the potential confusion can arise for the unwary.

 

Bob

[Steadfast]

Isn't British N to a larger scale (1/148) than continental and US N (1/160) because in the early days they needed to make the bodies of our smaller trains bigger, to allow the same motors etc as used in the non UK models. Thus a smaller prototype to a larger scale was roughly the same size in your hand.

 

Jo

[PaulCheffus]

6 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Lima was an odd example with their short lived N scale range. 

 

The Deltic and 31 were way too big, the range was padded out with continental wagons in BR colours (or rather, vague approximations there of) which were too small, the Mk 1 coaches were another completely different random scale and yet their CCT van was spot on and still holds up to this day, pizza cutter wheels notwithstanding. 

Hi

 

While the body is accurate the chassis on the CCT is not as for example the W -Irons have been stretched vertically.

 

I rebuilt mine with a scratchbuilt chassis

Cheers

 

Paul

[D9020 Nimbus]

O gauge has similar issues:

• 1:43.5 in Britain and France
• 1:45 in Germany
• 1:48 in USA

…all running on 32mm track, and nobody seems to bother about it, except for those unhappy with the inaccurate gauges, giving rise to ScaleSeven in the U.K. and P48 in the USA.

[Ravenser]

On 25/03/2023 at 04:43, clayton4115 said:

Hi all

 

I have several American N scale locos and also wagons and passenger cars. All was good till I purchased an Australian loco and some freight cars.  The freight cars are Kato from Japan and Japanese wheat wagons.

The first thing I noticed is that the Australian locos and wagons look a lot smaller than their American and Japanese counterparts, this is really bugging me and doesn't look good on my layout.

I didn't realise there was a difference in "size" in N Scale?

 

Aussie freight cars on left,  Japanese on right  https://photos.app.goo.gl/NiySdaBT7EmTaJSG7

 

Aussie loco on right of Japanese freight car - loco looks small compared to grain hopper, with an American loco it looks perfect size https://photos.app.goo.gl/aiCAjX2gX5WsRhJa8

 

The NSW loading gauge isn't very much taller than the British loading gauge

 

Butr it is appreciably wider - about a foot woder, from memory

 

That's critical for avoiding clearance issues with "deadscale" gauges like HO , but doesn't mean the height matches American stock - Western US railrioads have a very high loading gauge

 

These are NSW hoppers (Meadowbank, in Sydney, 1979) and they are lower than the loco: