On-train wifi at risk

[njee20]

2 hours ago, ClikC said:

 

 

Ahh yes, because the Government has never been wrong about anything ever. 🙄

Heaven forbid they may have actually asked people though? As a regular traveller I would rank it very low, behind all of the other cited things certainly. I know of very few who use it.

 

Like others I just hotspot off my phone if I want to use my laptop, and use my phone data otherwise. Yes ok, maybe foreigners will have to pay roaming charges, but they'll be doing that anyway whilst in the UK, so... meh. Data contracts are sickeningly cheap now, and the actual amount you use is generally small. Focus on things that matter IMO.

[jjb1970]

It's interesting to look at things as an outsider. I'm currently an outsider so far as UK trains go, keeping in mind I'm a rail enthusiast I have to say that my recent experiences have led me to ask the question - why would I go by train if there is an alternative? The last few visits I've looked at trying to make a quick trip up to Carlisle to visit my brother and his family and it's been a no-no. OK, I've got a free weekend, maybe go up to Duxford or down to Bovington for a day, no, better think of something else to do. Even visiting friends in Milton Keynes has been painful. I'm one of that minority for which on-board wi-fi is still quite useful, yes I can use international data but that gets pricey if you start using a lot of it. Given the shambolic state of things it seems odd to make it even worse.

[Talltim]

21 hours ago, Fishoutofwater said:

A quote from Mr Wolmar :

"People expect to be able to use wi-fi on a train in the same way they would use a toilet," he told the BBC.

 

Really?

The mind boggles!

I use them both for downloading...

[spamcan61]

4 minutes ago, Talltim said:

I use them both for downloading...

"WiFi on trains goes down the pan"

 

"Train WiFi gone down? need to check the logs"

Edited May 23, 2023 by spamcan61

[woodenhead]

Just typical I actually begin to use train Wifi and the DFT decide it's not for me!

 

Oh well, future trips for business will be sans work enroute if that is the case as I handed my work phone back at the beginning of Covid as I was not travelling and we mainly communicate via Teams.

 

Not that on train wifi is any better than on train mobile data - at the end of the day if the mobile connection is not there it is not there - on the WCML there is a real hole between Rugby and Watford.

[Michael Hodgson]

22 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

"WiFi on trains goes down the pan"

 

"Train WiFi gone down? need to check the logs"

Down the pan?  Sounds more like you need to check the bogs.

[009 micro modeller]

20 hours ago, 5944 said:

WiFi isn't just for passenger use. The TOCs use it for train info - passenger loadings, faults, pax info display screens, energy usage. So it won't be removed, just not available for passenger use. All the equipment, aerials, SIM cards, etc. will still have to be maintained.

Although they generally seem to use a separate (private) network for staff and ‘official’ use; we do the same at the museum I work at, which has several WiFi networks in  addition to the open public one.

 

This message posted using on-train WiFi. 😀

[6990WitherslackHall]

I use wifi on TPX and Northern trains. However, it doesn't connect all the time. 

[The Stationmaster]

I find it slightly worrying that according to DafT that in a survey the availability of wi-fi 'came a long way behind punctuality, reliability, and fares'.  Which makes me wonder if DafT actually expected people to rank it as more important than any of those?

[ianwales]

Don't understand why this is such a big deal, just put your phone, laptop etc away and sit back, look out the window and enjoy the journey.

[phil-b259]

33 minutes ago, ianwales said:

Don't understand why this is such a big deal, just put your phone, laptop etc away and sit back, look out the window and enjoy the journey.

 

Because:-

 

(1) Like it or not, for an awful lot of people the ability to use  internet connected mobile devices for work or pleasure is  far more preferable than 'looking out of the window'. For the railway to be sustainable and stop this 'drain on the taxpayer' nonsense being pedalled by the Government it needs top significantly increase passenger numbers.

 

(2) The cost of rail fares means traveling by car usually works out cheaper - and is certainly much cheaper once you have more than one person traveling together. As such because rail cannot compete on price it has to compete with other things and free wif-fi is one of those things (along with catering provision on long distance services) which can make it worth paying more to use rail.

 

(3) In life generally Government and business has increasingly oriented itself towards everything being done 'online' - and that includes the move away from paper to electronic receipts / tickets / etc. That ethos is only possible because access to the internet is not only becoming increasingly easy, its also because in many places its free and thus there is no barriers to those with restricted funds.

[StuAllen]

Personally I don’t use on train WiFi, when I have tried to use it, I’ve found it slow and unreliable. Also I try to avoid public networks from a security point of view, I don’t know who else is on the network so am unwilling to trust them. I will use data on my phone, that said I find this frustrating as well - I regularly use the Thameslink service from WiveIsfield to London Bridge or Blackfriars, and the signal is very weak - this is where any improvements should be made. 
 

I think an interesting statistic that the decision will be being made on is how many people actually use the Wi-Fi it easy to measure and compare against how busy the train is. I’m guessing this will be low.

[frobisher]

2 hours ago, StuAllen said:

Also I try to avoid public networks from a security point of view, I don’t know who else is on the network so am unwilling to trust them.

 

Unless you've left your device wide open, you're as safe as using your own wifi or phone connection in general.  People in general have a very skewed version of how security and risk actually works, and some of the most paranoid about "security" and "the man" are still doggedly running Windows XP PCs in an irony free zone...

[C126]

Why should public services be "financially sustainable"?  My 1st Class companions will be distraught, and now might even talk to me...  😀

Edited May 25, 2023 by C126
Correct quote.

[Michael Hodgson]

19 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

I find it slightly worrying that according to DafT that in a survey the availability of wi-fi 'came a long way behind punctuality, reliability, and fares'.  Which makes me wonder if DafT actually expected people to rank it as more important than any of those?

I would have thought that's where most passengers' priorities are - just get me to where I need to be, by the time I need to be there, and don't over-charge me.  Oh, and I don't want to have to stand all the way and I expect at least a modicum of cleanliness.

Yes, Wifi  - and availability of catering are nice to have, but I can always make my own arrangements as long as I know the score.

[phil-b259]

50 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I would have thought that's where most passengers' priorities are - just get me to where I need to be, by the time I need to be there, and don't over-charge me.  Oh, and I don't want to have to stand all the way and I expect at least a modicum of cleanliness.

Yes, Wifi  - and availability of catering are nice to have, but I can always make my own arrangements as long as I know the score.

 

Getting there on time is, how you put it a 'no brainer' question - I mean why on earth would any traveller (regardless of mode) not put it at the top of the list for goodness sake? 

 

Similarly who is going to turn round and say they actually want to stand for journeys lasting more than a few minutes? 

 

As for 'overcharging' - Again what traveller is going to turn round and say 'I want to pay more' or 'fares are too cheap? Besides fares are what they are and will only come down if the Government drops this "only 20% of taxpayers use trains so we should only be subsidising rail fares by 20%" nonsense the Government are pedalling (opposed to more enlightened countries where the subsidy is higher to help modal shift away from cars).

 

In other words all the above are pointless questions to be asking rail travellers - they only reason you would want to ask them is if you are trying to rig the results of a questionnaire that also includes other topics where you may well get a variance of views.

 

But I repeat, in a situation where you cannot reduce fares, cannot magically make trains faster or more frequent what you offer in terms of 'extras' can be significant in attracting or retaining custom. For example I'm sure that GWR lost passengers once the IETs came on stream as passenger comfort / service provision is considered distinctly worse than the HSTs they replaced in a number of areas.

 

If the Government REALLY wanted to gauge peoples views about things like wi-fi, they would remove the questions replies which rate to timekeeping and fares (because I doubt anyone is going to turn around and say they want to be late or pay more), yet as things stand the Government can claim there is no interest in wifi and conveniently axe it.

 

We are facing a climate crisis - every person who choses not to take the train is one too many - and as such what might appear 'trivial' things can make a difference (particularly as its been admitted that in most cases the necessary equipment will still have to be there for staff purposes)

 

Ever heard of that saying 'a death by a thousand cuts' - well having taken the hatchet to on train catering in recent years, procuring trains with insufficient luggage space and with the clear implication in the various TOC contracts that ministers would make every single train DOO and shut every ticket office if they could (to cut staff costs) I fear this is yet another example of short sighted cost cutting from a Government more obsessed about bringing the nations finances to a point where they can give out tax cuts to their mates than actually caring about the future of the industry, our country or the fate of the planet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by phil-b259

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I would have thought that's where most passengers' priorities are - just get me to where I need to be, by the time I need to be there, and don't over-charge me.  Oh, and I don't want to have to stand all the way and I expect at least a modicum of cleanliness.

Yes, Wifi  - and availability of catering are nice to have, but I can always make my own arrangements as long as I know the score.

I think @The Stationmaster meant that those are just the basic things you expect from a train service, so of course they are ranked higher than WiFi, but the latter is perhaps still important to a lot of people. Catering is slightly different as a lot of local or suburban routes aren’t really long enough to need it (and indeed in most cases capacity on each train would be reduced by including a catering vehicle). My personal preference on commuter services is for better food options at or near stations.

 

7 hours ago, ianwales said:

Don't understand why this is such a big deal, just put your phone, laptop etc away and sit back, look out the window and enjoy the journey.

And for those who actually need to do work, or something else useful, during the journey?

 

Just because there is WiFi that doesn’t mean you are personally forced to use it.

[david.hill64]

On 23/05/2023 at 01:43, Chris M said:

I saw an interesting article on the philosophy of government run railways compared to private train operators. The private train operators mostly look to increasing revenue to improve financial performance whereas government run railways almost always concentrate on reducing costs. The railways are now effectively government run and this could well be an example of this philosophy.

Roger Ford has an interesting analysis showing that cost cutting cannot restore railway finances, you have to go for revenue growth. Long distance leisure travel has more than recovered post Covid - only commuting is in the doldrums. Yet DfT seems to be hell bent on making life uncomfortable for passengers. Short formations, poorer onboard services. They may yet be the death of rail.

[rogerzilla]

A work colleague (who happens to be an ex-policeman) was on a busy train and the passenger seated next to him was browsing the Internet on a laptop.  It started with fantasy gaming sites, then "glamour" sites, then men and women doing things to each other with no clothes on, and then men doing things to other men with no clothes on.

 

My colleague asks the guy, "Do you think you should be looking at that stuff on a train?" and is ignored.

 

So my colleague, who is absolutely immune to embarrassment, stands up and announces to the entire coach, "Hey everyone, this guy's looking at gay porn."

 

Laptop slammed shut, guy leaves train at next stop.  I like to think it wasn't even his stop.

[ess1uk]

Sat in a mobile Faraday cage with limited trackside coverage it is not easy to get phone reception and not every device is equipped to connect so Wi-Fi is used.

 However the train still has the same problem with connectivity to the network and probably has multiple antennas to connect (possibly even to a satellite), this all cost and who is paying?

[KeithMacdonald]

On 22/05/2023 at 17:06, phil-b259 said:

How typical - when will the thick people at the DfT realise that you are not going to attract passengers back to the trains if you are constantly making the experience worse!

 

Is it all part of a Cunning Plan?

i.e.

Reduce the overcrowding (and the complaints) by finding new ways to deter people from regularly commuting by train?

[KeithMacdonald]

On 22/05/2023 at 17:25, Fishoutofwater said:

A quote from Mr Wolmar :

"People expect to be able to use wi-fi on a train in the same way they would use a toilet," he told the BBC.

Really?

The mind boggles!

 

Oh yuck!

Sounds like an unfortunate choice of words by that Mr Wolmar.

Personally, I travel in dread of having to use a toilet on a train.

But we know a song about that.

 

 

[Boris]

3 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

 

Personally, I travel in dread of having to use a toilet on a train.

But we know a song about that.

 

I know, right?  You must have followed me into a few, this was todays effort

:

 

Logging on whilst logging on....

[franciswilliamwebb]

48 minutes ago, Boris said:

:

And I thought Guinness was good for you😮 

[009 micro modeller]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

I know, right?  You must have followed me into a few, this was todays effort

:

 

Logging on whilst logging on....

I put a laugh reaction on this. I was thinking of using the ‘round of applause’ one but then realised that might seem a bit weird 😅