Mass cull of ticket offices

[Nick C]

2 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Have people got any more intelligent since the late 1960s/early '70s I wonder?

Less so, it seems - especially if you look at the number of people who end up driving onto railway lines/into rivers because "the sat-nav said turn right"

[pete_mcfarlane]

34 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Less so, it seems - especially if you look at the number of people who end up driving onto railway lines/into rivers because "the sat-nav said turn right"

These people were always there before Sat Navs, they just used to get completely lost and ask you for directions to a village 30 miles away and act all annoyed when you didn't know where it was. 

 

 

[Wheatley]

8 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

These people were always there before Sat Navs, they just used to get completely lost and ask you for directions to a village 30 miles away and act all annoyed when you didn't know where it was. 

 

 

A relative of mine was once rescued by the police after parking on a roundabout, completely lost, because she figured that if she sat there long enough a policeman would turn up and direct her to the correct exit. 1960s. 

    

[Ian Hargrave]

In the news currently here ( BBC News App Derby) is an article prompted bu EMR of the successful arrest & prosecution of a fare dodger who boasted about her successes on TikTok. The stations quoted were Derby,Burton and Tamworth which would suggest that she was a regular traveller on services between those points. This service is however operated entirely by XC,despite the fact that Derby and Burton are EMR run stations.Burton ticket office has restricted opening hours and no barrier. Tamworth is ,I believe,LNWR franchise and the upper level can be accessed by passengers changing from the Euston-Crewe service without barrier check. 
 

My personal experience of using this line over the last 18months is that I have never seen an on train ticket check on any XC service. Twice I have used a return service from Burton to Euston,pre booked online,tickets displayed on mobile,and on neither occasion did I have my ticket checked and that includes non operating barriers at Euston. 
Is it any wonder that fare dodging is so prevalent ? Good to publicise a successful prosecution & conviction but better still to put your own houses in order and on your own service rather than that of another TOC ?

[rodent279]

I keep coming back to my recent Holland trip. Buses and trams use the tap on-tap off system and they have roving gangs of ticket inspectors, who will expect you to present the card or device you used to tap on with. If you didn't tap on, you're fined and taken to an ATM if you can't pay

[Forward!]

On 10/11/2023 at 17:37, Not Jeremy said:

And of course the station itself is still missing its clock and the distinctive “Elizabethan” style central stone pediment.

 

It looks very odd without it, I haven’t found a clear answer as to if or when it will be replaced.

 

It bloody well ought to be- it's a Grade II* listed building!

[Reorte]

17 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

I keep coming back to my recent Holland trip. Buses and trams use the tap on-tap off system and they have roving gangs of ticket inspectors, who will expect you to present the card or device you used to tap on with. If you didn't tap on, you're fined and taken to an ATM if you can't pay

Not keen in the slightest of any system that won't accept cash (and being dragged to an ATM doesn't count, nor does having to pay in cash to a ticket inspector, if there's no way of being honest and paying).

[41516]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

The stations quoted were Derby,Burton and Tamworth which would suggest that she was a regular traveller on services between those points. This service is however operated entirely by XC,despite the fact that Derby and Burton are EMR run stations.Burton ticket office has restricted opening hours and no barrier. Tamworth is ,I believe,LNWR franchise and the upper level can be accessed by passengers changing from the Euston-Crewe service without barrier check. 
 

My personal experience of using this line over the last 18months is that I have never seen an on train ticket check on any XC service. Twice I have used a return service from Burton to Euston,pre booked online,tickets displayed on mobile,and on neither occasion did I have my ticket checked and that includes non operating barriers at Euston. 

 

Barriers tend to be open at Derby off peak too, especially in the evenings.  I'm struggling to think of the last time I was asked to show a ticket on XC services between Birmingham-Nottingham whereas before the pandemic it would be extremely unusual not be be checked both ways day-in, day-out.

 

Edit - not helped since April with the platform work at New St reducing services to hourly and the accompanying overcrowding of a lot of peak services.  Or is just the ones I travel on?

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by 41516

[C126]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

In the news currently here ( BBC News App Derby) is an article prompted bu EMR of the successful arrest & prosecution of a fare dodger who boasted about her successes on TikTok. The stations quoted were Derby,Burton and Tamworth which would suggest that she was a regular traveller on services between those points. This service is however operated entirely by XC,despite the fact that Derby and Burton are EMR run stations.Burton ticket office has restricted opening hours and no barrier. Tamworth is ,I believe,LNWR franchise and the upper level can be accessed by passengers changing from the Euston-Crewe service without barrier check. 
 

My personal experience of using this line over the last 18months is that I have never seen an on train ticket check on any XC service. Twice I have used a return service from Burton to Euston,pre booked online,tickets displayed on mobile,and on neither occasion did I have my ticket checked and that includes non operating barriers at Euston. 
Is it any wonder that fare dodging is so prevalent ? Good to publicise a successful prosecution & conviction but better still to put your own houses in order and on your own service rather than that of another TOC ?

 

Just to add my two-penn'orth, I think the whole network's staff are de-motivated, losing morale, and giving up.  My T.M. was reduced to tears last month by the evening peak-time over-crowding and consequent abuse.  What is the point in inspecting tickets on the train to get this, even if you could fight your way through?  Station ticket barriers are left open, owing to reduced staffing or their indifference.  On occasion, at peak time I have seen ticket barriers flung open because the queues are so long and slow feeding through.  It is not just Cross-Country.  Railway staff are talking about a 'second-Beeching by stealth'.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by C126
Spelling.

[Michael Hodgson]

On 13/11/2023 at 16:57, Wheatley said:

A relative of mine was once rescued by the police after parking on a roundabout, completely lost, because she figured that if she sat there long enough a policeman would turn up and direct her to the correct exit. 1960s. 

    

Some people fit a sticker reading "Police Aware" to authorise parking on the roundabouts.

[Ian Hargrave]

3 hours ago, 41516 said:

 

Barriers tend to be open at Derby off peak too, especially in the evenings.  I'm struggling to think of the last time I was asked to show a ticket on XC services between Birmingham-Nottingham whereas before the pandemic it would be extremely unusual not be be checked both ways day-in, day-out.

 

Edit - not helped since April with the platform work at New St reducing services to hourly and the accompanying overcrowding of a lot of peak services.  Or is just the ones I travel on?

 

This service is in marked contrast to the EMR Crewe-Newark service currently operated by refurbished 2 car 170’s.Recently observed some smart onboard TM work .There of course there has to be onboard checking due to the frequent stops at unmanned stations such as Pear Tree& Tutbury &Hatton. Timings are tight .It is a designated XP service despite the frequent stopping.  And rush hour from Stoke to Derby can also be crowded.

[Bernard Lamb]

I have just come back from a few days in Belfast.

I used the train between the city centre and Bangor a few times.

The service both in the station area and on the train was outstanding.

On one occassion I was in Belfast and wanted to buy a ticket. The train was due to depart in six minutes and there were eight people in front of me in the queue. The booking office chap had no trouble dealing with all of these people and I caught the train with ease. I need not have bothered, as tickets could be purchased on the train. Are you all right for tickets, was the friendly call as the chap came through the train.

The trains were very busy, as were the buses.

The difference from the mainland was remarkable. A political plot? On the evidence of this trip certainly.

Bernard

[andyman7]

On 10/11/2023 at 23:06, Michael Hodgson said:

I used to get tickets at this (now demolished) station which was still staffed in the early 1970s though it had lost its passenger trains in 1960 and closed to freight in 1964.

 

OK I give up...where is it?

[Stoke West]

4 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

OK I give up...where is it?

And send parcels

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, andyman7 said:

OK I give up...where is it?

On Bristol Road South.  But it's not there any more.

[Robert Shrives]

Sadly getting tickets checked on XC services is harder with management hardly seen and morale below rock bottom. Despite current industrial actions and reduced timetable trains still cancelled due no crew yet from Monday more trains inserted. 

Why would you volunteer for overtime work with the worst excesses of drink and violence on trains after Brum Market and the others around the XC network.  I have see trains delayed waiting police everyday for last few weeks of shifts at work. 

Barriers at Birmingham after 06.00 to 20.00 help a bit but attacks on staff at all time high and even with body cams not much seems to be done.  At long last the latest round of train faffing will see XC trains fitted with CCTV which might deter but all a bit stable door shutting. 

When involved in welfare calls it is clear crews tough it out and are "all right" but suggestions of tazers or hot lead side arms do seem to be a useful thing to add to crew kit.

Robert     

[Stoke West]

5 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

On Bristol Road South.  But it's not there any more.

Longbridge

[Robert Shrives]

9 hours ago, Robert Shrives said:

Sadly getting tickets checked on XC services is harder with management hardly seen and morale below rock bottom. Despite current industrial actions and reduced timetable trains still cancelled due no crew yet from Monday more trains inserted. 

Why would you volunteer for overtime work with the worst excesses of drink and violence on trains after Brum Market and the others around the XC network.  I have see trains delayed waiting police everyday for last few weeks of shifts at work. 

Barriers at Birmingham after 06.00 to 20.00 help a bit but attacks on staff at all time high and even with body cams not much seems to be done.  At long last the latest round of train faffing will see XC trains fitted with CCTV which might deter but all a bit stable door shutting. 

When involved in welfare calls it is clear crews tough it out and are "all right" but suggestions of tazers or hot lead side arms do seem to be a useful thing to add to crew kit.

Robert     

Well I ventured on 1S43 and 1V54 today  both had active TMs on ticketing and 1V54 had two XC revenue protectors and TM amid train - which was full and standing 5 car, 1S43 was a busy 8 from Derby. As staff I stood on way back along with two other employees - seats for paying customers first.  

Called at SHF booking office - three windows open which is most I have ever seen, and the latest accessory for your modern station a pair of armed BTP officers on visual presence duty on concourse, both stood together offering a single target!  ho hum.

Robert  

[The Stationmaster]

On 05/12/2023 at 11:59, Ian Hargrave said:

In the news currently here ( BBC News App Derby) is an article prompted bu EMR of the successful arrest & prosecution of a fare dodger who boasted about her successes on TikTok. The stations quoted were Derby,Burton and Tamworth which would suggest that she was a regular traveller on services between those points. This service is however operated entirely by XC,despite the fact that Derby and Burton are EMR run stations.Burton ticket office has restricted opening hours and no barrier. Tamworth is ,I believe,LNWR franchise and the upper level can be accessed by passengers changing from the Euston-Crewe service without barrier check. 
 

My personal experience of using this line over the last 18months is that I have never seen an on train ticket check on any XC service. Twice I have used a return service from Burton to Euston,pre booked online,tickets displayed on mobile,and on neither occasion did I have my ticket checked and that includes non operating barriers at Euston. 
Is it any wonder that fare dodging is so prevalent ? Good to publicise a successful prosecution & conviction but better still to put your own houses in order and on your own service rather than that of another TOC ?

XC still seem pretty good with ticket checks between Reading & Birmingham, and viceversa, but it depends on teh ability of staff to get through the train and on some services that is impossible due to overcrowding.

 

GWR is variav ble 0 in my exerience the West of England is the best area for ticket checks but there's usually at least one ceck west of Reading on the IC services.  Theor big shortcoming is the area where fraudulent travel is most likely - between Reading and Paddington in the Up direction although there is usually a check in the Down direction of at least part of the train.  On my last couple of visits I've noticed that the barriers at Paddington have actually been operational and even work.

[Stoke West]

3 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

XC still seem pretty good with ticket checks between Reading & Birmingham, and viceversa, but it depends on teh ability of staff to get through the train and on some services that is impossible due to overcrowding.

 

GWR is variav ble 0 in my exerience the West of England is the best area for ticket checks but there's usually at least one ceck west of Reading on the IC services.  Theor big shortcoming is the area where fraudulent travel is most likely - between Reading and Paddington in the Up direction although there is usually a check in the Down direction of at least part of the train.  On my last couple of visits I've noticed that the barriers at Paddington have actually been operational and even work.

Years past all Reading to Pad got tickets checked without fail 

[roythebus1]

On 03/11/2023 at 15:49, woodenhead said:

But you appreciate it's more complicated than simply a DB driver turning up at Wembley, Longsight or Oxley and getting into a Pendolino.

 

Even in BR days you had to have traction knowledge and route knowledge to be able to drive a train, a DB driver in Toton might understand the rules of driving, but he/she won't have the traction knowledge or route knowledge without a conversion course.  If DB are shedding drivers it's because they don't expect workload to pick up so hiring drivers out to other companies is only for them delaying the inevitable.  However, I am sure the unions and companies do try and retain workforce within the industry so will be sharing knowledge about who is hiring.

a bit late to reply to this, but yes I am fully aware, I was a BR driver in a former life. :)

[adb968008]

16 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

XC still seem pretty good with ticket checks between Reading & Birmingham, and viceversa, but it depends on teh ability of staff to get through the train and on some services that is impossible due to overcrowding.

 

GWR is variav ble 0 in my exerience the West of England is the best area for ticket checks but there's usually at least one ceck west of Reading on the IC services.  Theor big shortcoming is the area where fraudulent travel is most likely - between Reading and Paddington in the Up direction although there is usually a check in the Down direction of at least part of the train.  On my last couple of visits I've noticed that the barriers at Paddington have actually been operational and even work.

You should try up north…

 

The ticket inspectors were stood at the carriage doors of an EMR Sheffield to London service last month, checking tickets at the door before you board… thats a new experience for me.

 

I decided to test it, by opting after initial inspection to change my mind and choose the next carriage down to avoid a crush and heyho the guy was waiting to check tickets at that door too… (only 4 doors available on the 222 in the platform at Sheffield.. they blocked you from walking down the platform).

 

it was a fairly full train, 9pm midweek train but no apparent event to suggest why this approach was taken, other than checking every ticket before you stepped on, I didnt see anyone turned away either… after departure the TTI came through the train again and double checked everyone (well triple if you consider the Station gateline too).

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by adb968008

[Ian Hargrave]

On 05/12/2023 at 13:16, 41516 said:

 

Barriers tend to be open at Derby off peak too, especially in the evenings.  I'm struggling to think of the last time I was asked to show a ticket on XC services between Birmingham-Nottingham whereas before the pandemic it would be extremely unusual not be be checked both ways day-in, day-out.

 

Edit - not helped since April with the platform work at New St reducing services to hourly and the accompanying overcrowding of a lot of peak services.  Or is just the ones I travel on?

 

An update on this. Current press release from XC announces more trains with fewer intermediate stops on their Birmingham-Derby-Nottingham service..i.e. twice hourly from tomorrow. Whereas this makes good copy with the public (which is what is intended)  it is in fact reinstating the service that was withdrawn several months ago. 
 

One can only speculate as to why the half hourly service was reduced in the first place but for months the hourly Cardiff service via Birmingham  has consisted of a 2 car+3 car 170 unit the internal condition of which leaves much to be desired.Compare it with neighbouring EMR 170 . Hopefully this move will not reduce the Cardiff service to 3 or 2 once again,especially at this time of the year. I am not holding my breath. Just grateful to have a 30 minute service reinstated. Cynical …..or what ?

 

 

[41516]

17 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

One can only speculate as to why the half hourly service was reduced in the first place but for months the hourly Cardiff service via Birmingham  has consisted of a 2 car+3 car 170 unit the internal condition of which leaves much to be desired.Compare it with neighbouring EMR 170 . Hopefully this move will not reduce the Cardiff service to 3 or 2 once again,especially at this time of the year. I am not holding my breath. Just grateful to have a 30 minute service reinstated. Cynical …..or what ?

 

I picked this up looking last week to see if we'd get back to normal before Christmas as the platform work was always '6 months' starting from April.

 

Some services have been 2+3, but not all as others have remained as just the 3 car, which has been a frankly wonderful experience for the duration. I will find out this week if things even out or not.

 

17 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Cynical …..or what ?

 

Just in time for the peak of the Christmas market in Birmingham...

Edited December 10, 2023 by 41516

[Ian Hargrave]

11 minutes ago, 41516 said:

 

I picked this up looking last week to see if we'd get back to normal before Christmas as the platform work was always '6 months' starting from April.

 

Some services have been 2+3, but not all as others have remained as just the 3 car, which has been a frankly wonderful experience for the duration. I will find out this week if things even out or not.

 

 

Just in time for the peak of the Christmas market in Birmingham...

So what was the reason for the service reduction in the first place ? I know the units are intensely used and get a deal  of hammer and really are urgently in need of attention as far as passenger accommodation is concerned.