Canal base colour suggestions?

[Ralf]

Hi all, 

 

Looking for some prototype photos - but thought better of putting this in the UK Prototype section!

 

What base paint colour would  you use for an industrial canal basin? If you were topping with pva as per Kathy Millatts sea water canal in this video. I'm not modelling sea water, well actually I could...  

 

 

 

 

 

I'm kinda thinking 1960s industrial grot could lead to any colour from orange (kidsgrove) to brown and green blue, but probably quite a constant colour.... Any suggestions or colour prototype pics from back in the day would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

Ralf

 

[AY Mod]

18 minutes ago, Ralf said:

industrial grot could lead to any colour from orange (kidsgrove) to brown and green blue,

 

Harecastle tunnel still spews orange due to an iron vein so that's comparatively uncommon. Green blue was common around the Black Country in localised patches but a thick brown is probably the best average of grot.

 

Do some tests over different colours on some scrap card as the PVA and varnish can change the end result.

[JeffP]

There's a guy on YouTube has modelled a very convincing canal in 4mm scale, using resin, brown paint and even a supermarket trolley and an old washing machine dumped in.

Edited July 12, 2023 by JeffP

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

10 hours ago, Ralf said:

...industrial grot could lead to any colour...

That's the spirit. When a canal in the Airedale region got accidentally drained the bottom in one location was an entrancing mix of coal fines and a bright green weed. With water present all you saw was the weed.

[Hroth]

Worsley on the Bridgewater canal is also noted for bright orange water, again from canal tunnels that led to coal mines and passed through iron ore beds.

 

In general, a sludge brown is the most common disused basin look, often with an iridescent green topnote.  Depending on the waterway, an abandoned hulk of a narrowboat or barge with bushes growing out of what remains above the water would be a nice touch!

 

@JeffP Only ONE supermarket trolley?  Abandoned bicycles are good scenic touches too.

 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Hroth
A bit more

[Phil Parker]

I built a Midlands canal a couple of years ago:

 

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/techniques/how-to-build-a-canal/

[eastglosmog]

Try here for an image of Worsley Delph full orange colour: https://www.avforums.com/threads/worsley-delph-with-the-lensbaby-trio-28mm.2359210/

The orange colour is the result of oxidation of Iron pyrites in the coal and shales above and below giving rise to iron hydroxide.

Many canal basin beds were essentially black due to all the coal dust that blew off of the barges.

[Phatbob]

Typical slow moving inland waterway would be something close to olive green IMHO.  The colour mostly coming from algae (green) and muddy coloured suspended solids.
HTH

[F-UnitMad]

I just used black, under gloss varnish. There is a tyre in the weeds, too....

 

[Ralf]

13 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

I built a Midlands canal a couple of years ago:

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/techniques/how-to-build-a-canal/

 

Thanks Phil it's not a large area and to avoid the drama having potential of the resin running away on three sides I was hoping to avoid resin. 

 

3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

I just used black, under gloss varnish.

 

Wow, amazed how good that looks, didn't think black would pull it off but it does! Did you plant the weeds as the varnish dried? 

 

So far Brown, Green or Black... Hmmm I'm not any further forward yet, inspired and impressed and learnt stuff but choosing a colour - no progress! 🤣

 

Ralf

[Hroth]

Not all canal basins handled coal and so wouldn't be affected by sweepings. Your colour would be affected by the general traffic you envisage being dealt with.  As Phatbob says, if its a dock on a main line rather than a basin, then the base colour would be a muddy olive green.

 

Not all canals are "slow". While most have a gentle current (have a look at a lock bypass channel!) some, like the Llangollen, which carries water from the Dee at Llangollen to a reservoir at Hurlston near Nantwich in Cheshire, or cross a river on the level like the Trent and Mersey which intersects the Trent near Alrewas, move at a brisker pace and are predominantly a muddy brown.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Hroth
Place name correction

[JZ]

Olive drab is a good starting point. If the canal isn't regularly used, there could be duckweed on the surface.

[TheQ]

Many will say there are no canals on the Norfolk Broads, this is however incorrect, for instance the reed lined Walsham cut. Used to go to a brickworks. Even today (it closed pre WW2) if  the drainage pumps emptying the surrounding land operate, the cut will run orange. Instead of it's normal clear water with weed growing on its floor.

Meanwhile St Benet's straight also man made is heavily used by motorboats, it's almost always a muddy green brown stiring the silt.

[JeffP]

8 hours ago, Hroth said:

Not all canal basins handled coal and so wouldn't be affected by sweepings. Your colour would be affected by the general traffic you envisage being dealt with.  As Phatbob says, if its a dock on a main line rather than a basin, then the base colour would be a muddy olive green.

 

Not all canals are "slow". While most have a gentle current (have a look at a lock bypass channel!) some, like the Llangollen, which carries water from the Dee at Llangollen to a reservoir at Hurlston near Nantwich in Cheshire, or cross a river on the level like the Trent and Mersey which intersects the Trent near Alresford, move at a brisker pace and are predominantly a muddy brown.

 

That crossing is near Alrewas, not Alresford.

[Michael Hodgson]

8 hours ago, Hroth said:

Not all canals are "slow". While most have a gentle current (have a look at a lock bypass channel!) some, like the Llangollen, which carries water from the Dee at Llangollen to a reservoir at Hurlston near Nantwich in Cheshire, or cross a river on the level like the Trent and Mersey which intersects the Trent near Alresford, move at a brisker pace and are predominantly a muddy brown.

 

Ah yes, when we were lads we hired a boat for a week, and thought we had got the hang of locks, until we reached the first lock on the Llangollen.  Another lad and I dropped off and ran ahead to work the gates, leaving one at the blunt end steering and another at the sharp end with a paddle to push the boat away from the lock wall if he got it slightly off course.  The boat was nicely lined up until it reached the outlet of the bypass channel, the first we had encountered, so the boat was swept well off course.  It was still too far from the lock to push off that, so matey stuck the paddle in the water and pushed off the bottom.  Boat and paddle duly moved apart but he was unable to extract it from the mud - and held onto the paddle.  It came unstuck in slow motion with him clinging to it like a cartoon character then splash!  And to cap it all, as he climbed out the owner of the allotment started shouting at him for trampling his cabbages,

 

At Llangollen, the water was perfectly clear and you could see the muddy bottom at 6am.  But the water immediately turned brown as the propeller of the first boat churned up the water and it stayed that way as more boats passed until the sediment slowly settled overnight

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, JeffP said:

That crossing is near Alrewas, not Alresford.

 

Thanks!

 

I thought I might have got that wrong, its been a long time since I've been on that bit of the T&M.

Its been corrected.

 

Another reason why Alrewas should have stuck in my mind was that we had to stop there because the Z of the tiller broke and we had to take it to a local garage to be welded together again!

 

[Huw Griffiths]

Just to complicate things further, the weather / sky colour might also affect the perceived colour of a canal.

 

Sometimes, I've been on buses on the M4 - crossing over the Monmouthshire and Brecon by Malpas, Newport - and the canal has looked a mid grey colour. Of course, this is in South Wales - so we do occasionally encounter rain / overcast skies.

 

 

Personally though, I'd be most likely to model a canal using a strip of mounting board - probably an olive green - and put a layer of clear styrene sheet (the sort sold as "indoor plastic glazing") over the top. I don't think it would be too hard to disguise joins (working boat, supermarket trolley, weeds etc?).

 

I might also add a thin layer of varnish, Klear etc - and sprinkle on some ground foam / grated florist's foam (probably green) whilst the varnish is still wet.

 

 

As for exactly how you'd represent a canal (and what colour), this might also have something to do with where it's supposed to be. Do you have photos of a similar canal - passing through a similar area - in similar weather to what you're trying to depict? Otherwise, might it be possible to find some photos online, using your favourite search engine?

 

 

[Ralf]

On 12/07/2023 at 10:42, Huw Griffiths said:

 

As for exactly how you'd represent a canal (and what colour), this might also have something to do with where it's supposed to be. Do you have photos of a similar canal - passing through a similar area - in similar weather to what you're trying to depict?

 

No because I don't really know what I'm modelling! Trying to commit and progress to a slightly extended ScaleScenes boxfile kit, but made a mess of glueing the water down - used PVA and it wrinkled, so now going down the paint route. 

Todays trip to Hobbycraft didn't happen and going away for 10ish days soon, but I will update upon my return, but suspect Olive Green will feature. I've noticed my limited citadel paint collection is mostly grey / browns with only a bright green... Hence the shopping trip! 

 

Thanks @Michael Hodgson that's darn interesting regarding the water clearing overnight, I suspect it'll (the layout) end up a bit of a mish mash of Industrial Diesels on a Canal Wharf which is probably not very likely, but hey if I get some modelling done then Rule 1 applies!

 

Thanks

Ralf

ps Layout thread (stalled due to not going to Hobbycraft and impending holiday (IoM) - is here but don't expect an update until August... 

 

 

[TinTracks]

On 12/07/2023 at 09:25, Michael Hodgson said:

At Llangollen, the water was perfectly clear and you could see the muddy bottom at 6am.

Likewise the Ripon Canal in N.Yorks. Back in my boating days I was amazed to see how clear the water was between Ripon Boat Club Marina and Oxclose Lock where access was gained to the River Ure. Especially at times of low water,( usually when some scally had opened the paddles at Oxclose and deliberately drained the canal overnight),  it was possible to make out rocks, vegitation even the odd fish swimming about. Granted the canal had not had any commercial traffic for many decades.

 Regards, Rich

[Hroth]

Not a canal as such, but the water on the Soar Navigation (between Leicester and the River Trent) used to be reasonably clear.  A bolt fell out of the sterngear of our narrowboat and we moored up at Mountsorrel for a day to pump the river out of the bilge and block the hole whilst sourcing a replacement.

 

After lifting the weedhatch, we could see down to the rudder skeg (2ft 6in at least) with curious fish swimming around the rudder and prop!

 

Completely different to the usual canal experience when it was good not to be able to see what was wrapped around the prop*...

 

* Discarded disposable nappies, ect, usually. Wash hands in Dettol afterwards!