York Show 2024

[The Bandit]

A bit late but thank you to all those who organised the show, exhibited and provided trade support. As always it was a very friendly show with plenty to inspire. A great day out and looking forward to next year.

[john new]

A reminder that we still have the unclaimed item of ladies jewellery. The other items are probably sentimentally valueless but not this item.

[jonhall]

I didn't want to post this too soon after the show, because I thought what I saw was overall really good, and don't want to be discouraging, when so much effort had gone into organising, but I would encourage the organising team to have a review of the demo's and societies stands.

 

I felt there was probably too many of both, but more importantly, some of these demo's and a lot of the society stands weren't offering very much to me as a paying visitor. I saw a lot of the top of some demonstrators heads who didn't seem to be looking up to interact with visitors very much. The Society stands were often just chatting with the others behind the stand or their mates. They also seemed to be 'all the usual faces' that I've seen at York before.

 

The show has a relatively high proportion of demonstrators and stands, and I'd like to see a bit more 'value for money', both in terms of engagement with the public, and perhaps turnover or rotation, so that there is something fresh each time.

 

There were of course exceptions, I learns a lot about tree making from Gordon, had an interesting chat with the chap making wagon loads, and the another doing resin casting, and Tony W didn't seem to stop talking all day whenever I passed by.

 

I'd suggest halving the number of both, and alternating them so it isn't quite so repetitive. Inevitably the subject being demonstrated will play a big part of whether an individual is interested in interacting with the demonstrator, so perhaps I've only sat down with those who were showing something that was of interest to me?

 

I usually make a weekend of York, spending a day at the show, a day at the NRM, and a couple of days at the local preserved railways, from home in SW London, so coming to the York show is quite an investment.

 

Jon

 

 

[john new]

In the case of the SLS (so responding with my non-YMRS hat on) we probably fell into the category you were disappointed by as our presence this year was a show guide advert, plus a self-service and information flyers only stand. Some one has to volunteer to crew the stand (they couldn’t this year) perhaps you would like to join as Promotions Officer (role currently vacant) and do that next year at York and other shows and events?

 

Your comment regarding the Societies with a team present would be best addressed by an email direct to them letting them know, that in your opinion, the stand crew they had volunteering failed to attract your attention. Did you ask them anything or go close enough to their stand to indicate you wanted to ask? I’ve done many years on show stands; it is a difficult balance between being pushy (alienate the punter) or seemingly ignoring them as you await their first approach.

 

Perhaps a thread topic in its’ own right on how people on stands should interact/await being approached would be appropriate. 
 

 

Edited April 9 by john new
Punctuation change and a few wording tweaks.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

29 minutes ago, john new said:

Your comment regarding the Societies with a team present would be best addressed by an email direct to them letting them know, that in your opinion, the stand crew they had volunteering failed to attract your attention. Did you ask them anything or go close enough to their stand to indicate you wanted to ask? I’ve done many years on show stands; it is a difficult balance between being pushy (alienate the punter) or seemingly ignoring them as you await their first approach.

 

Perhaps a thread topic in its’ own right on how people on stands should interact/await being approached would be appropriate. 

 

I have no strong views on this subject myself, just to say that 40 odd years ago I had an American ON30 layout which had amazing trees made by a fellow club member - Robert Skene. We invited him to come to shows with us and demonstrate his unique method of making trees; he would make a accurate model of an exact tree, using drawings - just like a scratchbuilder would make a model of an exact loco or building. Anyway, he was quite a character and eventually he built himself a booth which we transported in our van along with three stools - one for him (inside the booth) and two for potential visitors outside his booth. Once the show opened, he would simply speak in a loud voice telling people in the vicinity how he made his trees. He had been a teacher and/or an actor and he could project his voice somewhat. That approach attracted people to come over, sit down and engage with him.

 

All I'm saying is that his unique style worked for him 40 odd years ago, whether it would be a popular approach these days, I don't know.

[jonhall]

44 minutes ago, john new said:

In the case of the SLS (so responding with my non-YMRS hat on) we probably fell into the category you were disappointed by as our presence this year was a show guide advert, plus a self-service and information flyers only stand.
 

 

 

Frankly that isn't a display , and in *my* opinion should be missed out entirely. If its not worth doing properly, don't bother at all, I certainly don't want to pay to see it!

 

Whilst I totally take your point about individual societies controlling what they put on show, I think the show organisers are acting as 'curators', they should be assessing what is in their show, and making choices about the societies that they invite, and perhaps a bit of competition  for the space available might improve whats shown? 

 

Jon

[woodenhead]

I would say at a minimum I would hope to see the following societies at York each year:

• 009
• N gauge
• 2mm
• 3mm
• EM/P4
• O

Plus people to represent loco construction, track building, buildings construction and scenics.

 

York to me is a like a bridge between rtr and finescale so demonstrations and society stands are important in helping people over that bridge.

[jonhall]

11 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I would say at a minimum I would hope to see the following societies at York each year:

• 009
• N gauge
• 2mm
• 3mm
• EM/P4
• O

Plus people to represent loco construction, track building, buildings construction and scenics.

 

York to me is a like a bridge between rtr and finescale so demonstrations and society stands are important in helping people over that bridge.

 

My point is, that I don't think that the various scale gauge societies should *expect* to get space (or as much space as some of them got) without also bringing something to the exhibition visitors experience. 

 

And I totally agree with your point about helping/inspiring people take the next step - which is only likely to happen *if* they get the inspiration and engagement. The York show is clearly *trying* to do this, with a very large number of both societies and demo's, but I felt as I wandered round, that the they (or more accurately a number of those they had invited) had somewhat missed the target, and were in fact just 'making up the numbers'/'filling the space', which I'm sure isn't what YMRS intended to happen.

 

Jon

 

 

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, john new said:

how people on stands should interact/await being approached would be appropriate

Catch the visitor's eye and say "Morning!" (or whatever time of day it is). That opens the door - they will either come through it or not.

[stan williams]

You can please some of the people all of the time.

You can please all of the people some of the time.

But, you cannot please all of the people all the time.

[woodenhead]

19 hours ago, jonhall said:

 

My point is, that I don't think that the various scale gauge societies should *expect* to get space (or as much space as some of them got) without also bringing something to the exhibition visitors experience. 

 

At a recent show in Yorkshire I didn't approach the 2mm FS society and they didn't approach me, but in Glasgow I approached them and several of them all joined in to show me different elements relating to 2mm FS - the approach to track building, drop in wheelsets for diesels and some of the tools and tricks they use to help them model.  At York I didn't approach them and they did not approach me.

 

At Warley there was a chap showing models created by himself and his MR club, when I showed interest he reciprocated.

 

I guess that in order to make these demonstrations operate one has to approach them first and then they come to life and are quite interactive.

 

I don't think having people waving arms and beckoning people to their stands is going to work, I think most people are quite shy and don't want to be bothered un-necessarily at a show.

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

My personal favorite of the show was the wonderful Bristol Avon Bridge...

[Clive Mortimore]

52 minutes ago, Phill Dyson (onslaught832) said:

My personal favorite of the show was the wonderful Bristol Avon Bridge...

It is rather special.

[TT100 Diesels]

On 09/04/2024 at 16:02, woodenhead said:

I would say at a minimum I would hope to see the following societies at York each year:

• 009
• N gauge
• 2mm
• 3mm
• EM/P4
• O

Plus people to represent loco construction, track building, buildings construction and scenics.

 

York to me is a like a bridge between rtr and finescale so demonstrations and society stands are important in helping people over that bridge.

 

Absolutely spot on Woodenhead, particularly the 'bridge between rtr and finescale' comment. After all a heck of a lot of shows mainly have rtr new and secondhand traders - nothing wrong with that, rtr represents the lions share of the hobby.

 

So it is also great to have shows where trade stands offer modelling bits and pieces, tool etc, have demos and society stand representations. York is one of the latter and it provides a boost to the more modelling and building side of the hobby, and surely that is a good thing.

 

Regarding society stands, these are reliant on volunteers, and those are a finite commodity. I doubt any just happen to be professional marketing types ! 

 

Also, it was quite clear in the advanced publicity what the spread of attractions were in terms of layouts, demos, traders and societies.

 

If I may comment specifically on the 3mm society stand, at York the volunteers manning it were telling me that they were getting a lot of interest, and were able to also point people in the direction of the two 3mm exhibition layouts so they could see stuff running (its quite hard in our scale, not that many layouts out on the road compared with most of the other scale societies - again relies on people making an effort to build one and take it on the road).

 

The stand also had a collection of both steam and diesel outline models on show, and a scale comparator i.e. four Britannia bodies mounted on a board together with 4mm/OO, 3mm/TT3, 2.5mm/TT120 and 2mm/N  versions which apparently proved to be of great interest and information to folk I was told.

 

I was at the show as a paying punter only, but did obviously catch up with fellow 3mm peeps on the stand. 

 

Cheers

 

TT100 Diesels

 

 

[t-b-g]

As a regular Demo stand volunteer at shows, although I have cut back to just a couple of shows in the last few years, the idea that you should proactively approach everybody walking by is a bit of a non starter. It comes across as a bit desperate and pushy to me. My approach is to be doing "something" practical but to keep an eye out and spot anybody pausing or showing a bit of interest. Then a "Morning/Afternoon. Are you interested in xyz?" is a good opener. Having a few part built and finished models on show, to show the various stages of the work, perhaps with a visual display such as some photos or a laptop with a video draws people in too. Just sitting at a desk with some leaflets may be a nice easy weekend for the people behind the desk but it doesn't add much to the show.

 

 

[John of York61]

On 09/04/2024 at 14:10, jonhall said:

I didn't want to post this too soon after the show, because I thought what I saw was overall really good, and don't want to be discouraging, when so much effort had gone into organising, but I would encourage the organising team to have a review of the demo's and societies stands.

 

I felt there was probably too many of both, but more importantly, some of these demo's and a lot of the society stands weren't offering very much to me as a paying visitor. I saw a lot of the top of some demonstrators heads who didn't seem to be looking up to interact with visitors very much. The Society stands were often just chatting with the others behind the stand or their mates. They also seemed to be 'all the usual faces' that I've seen at York before.

 

The show has a relatively high proportion of demonstrators and stands, and I'd like to see a bit more 'value for money', both in terms of engagement with the public, and perhaps turnover or rotation, so that there is something fresh each time.

 

There were of course exceptions, I learns a lot about tree making from Gordon, had an interesting chat with the chap making wagon loads, and the another doing resin casting, and Tony W didn't seem to stop talking all day whenever I passed by.

 

I'd suggest halving the number of both, and alternating them so it isn't quite so repetitive. Inevitably the subject being demonstrated will play a big part of whether an individual is interested in interacting with the demonstrator, so perhaps I've only sat down with those who were showing something that was of interest to me?

 

I usually make a weekend of York, spending a day at the show, a day at the NRM, and a couple of days at the local preserved railways, from home in SW London, so coming to the York show is quite an investment.

 

Jon

 

 

Hi Jon,

I take your point; in my defence some of the demonstrators have 'jobs' at the show. One regular, now in his 80s comes up on Thursday to help mark out/ attach the York Show green cloths etc.. Another is also the show Electrician and the N gauge demonstrators on the second Mezzanine are invaluable on Friday and Monday controlling the traffic so their colleagues can set up/leave with as little hassle as possible. I invited two new ones this year: 3D printing and a wagon loads modeller (whose wife I persuaded to help in the Exhibitors' rest room).

One has retired this year so I am inclined to find a track specialist for 2025 (any suggestions?) my email address is piloti03@yahoo.co.uk ('piloti' is an architectural term-I was a big fan of Gavin Stamp in Private Eye).

Some of the demonstrators are rotated as two had layouts this year and two will be with layouts next year. 

As show Manager I can't (and won't) tell the demonstrators I've invited to be more engaging! I prefer to let things evolve (a quick look at the show guide from 10 years ago would probably confirm this!). 

Next year we have a member of the York show team demonstrating Victorian Modelling which I haven't seen at York since the days of Mike Sharman. 2025 will also be my 50th anniversary-in the 1975 show I was one of Mike Cook's team on 'Totnes'. I was particularly chuffed this year in getting 'Trerice' and South Pelaw Junction. For the old hands, I did invite a couple of GWR layouts...did I mention I am a distant relative of Mike Cook?

 

[johndon]

39 minutes ago, John of York61 said:

I was particularly chuffed this year in getting 'Trerice' and South Pelaw Junction. 

 

 

and we were very happy to be invited with South Pelaw, we had a great weekend.

[queensquare]

26 minutes ago, johndon said:

 

and we were very happy to be invited with South Pelaw, we had a great weekend.

…. and I was not only very happy to bring Trerice but also got to see South Pelaw for the first time  - particularly as  it had been in one of the issues of MRJ when I was in the editorial chair! It didn’t disappoint, stunning track work and array of signals.

I’m back at York next year with my more usual 2mm hat on with Tucking Mill. I’ve been a demonstrator there in the past and would be happy to do it again in the future. Pitching a demonstration is never easy. I’m not a fan of the heads down, look busy style and much prefer a heads up and make eye contact approach but do draw the line at hailing down passers by!!

 

Jerry

 

[Neil]

My two pennorth. I've had a couple of spells as part of the team organising and putting on the York Show (I don't now, I live too far away). In the past I've also been the exhibition organiser for a small local exhibition for several years. 

 

To start with you can only invite the layouts, trade and demonstrators that are available. Not all will want to come if invited and some make themselves unavailable because of the cost involved in getting them to the show and accommodating them.  There is a reason too that regulars appear from year to year. Reliable, helpful, personable exhibitors will find themselves welcomed year on year; prima donnas get weeded out after one appearance, sometimes word of mouth  will mean an invite won't be extended.

 

The bottom line is that we do this for fun (maybe doesn't seem so when you're the last out of the hall, sweaty from lugging tables and barriers) so it's not surprising that we seek the company of friends and those recommended by friends.

[john new]

On 09/04/2024 at 15:55, jonhall said:

 

Frankly that isn't a display , and in *my* opinion should be missed out entirely. If its not worth doing properly, don't bother at all, I certainly don't want to pay to see it!

 

Whilst I totally take your point about individual societies controlling what they put on show, I think the show organisers are acting as 'curators', they should be assessing what is in their show, and making choices about the societies that they invite, and perhaps a bit of competition  for the space available might improve whats shown? 

 

Jon

I’ve pondered replying for sometime. The area we had for the SLS was unsuitable for a crewed stand but ideal for a static stand, think roadside advertising hoarding for an equivalent. The stand that was usually there was merely relocated slightly (the leaflets drop spot). By taking it we didn’t displace any actively crewed stand of whatever type and gave the show some income. Due to lack of volunteers to crew an active stand an advertising slot was all that was possible. Not ideal for us either but you can only have a Society stand with a crew if they are available. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

On 10/04/2024 at 19:13, t-b-g said:

As a regular Demo stand volunteer at shows, although I have cut back to just a couple of shows in the last few years, the idea that you should proactively approach everybody walking by is a bit of a non starter. It comes across as a bit desperate and pushy to me. My approach is to be doing "something" practical but to keep an eye out and spot anybody pausing or showing a bit of interest. Then a "Morning/Afternoon. Are you interested in xyz?" is a good opener. Having a few part built and finished models on show, to show the various stages of the work, perhaps with a visual display such as some photos or a laptop with a video draws people in too. Just sitting at a desk with some leaflets may be a nice easy weekend for the people behind the desk but it doesn't add much to the show.

 

 

I agree with you Tony, but I do know of one group/society where the demonstrators can be so engaged in model making that it deters anyone from interrupting their activity. I even saw a post where one of their demonstrators said they were looking forward to manning the stand at a particular show as they hoped to build a particular loco kit over the weekend.

 

For demonstrators, Society representatives, layout owners/operators and traders there is a careful balance to be struck between being welcoming /helpful or off putting/disinterested. The former can put people off (as well as attracting those who want to tell you their modelling life story), as much as the latter.

[john new]

12 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

... snipped ....

 

The former can put people off (as well as attracting those who want to tell you their modelling life story), as much as the latter.

Many also always seem to have a grandfather who drove or fired (the) Flying Scotsman. They never seem to know whether that was the locomotive or the train. I suspect also even where it is true (the locomotive) it was something like 50 yards up the shed road to say they've done it or some other move around the shed as a just passed out fireman or similar.

 

At the risk of thread drift. I worked on the clerical side in the Police Garage 55 years ago straight out of college as my first job, I did once drive a police car a short distance up the car park to move it as it was in the way - I can legitimately say I drove a police car at work, but a big difference between that small yard shunt and being a traffic cop. 

Edited April 11 by john new

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, john new said:

Many also always seem to have a grandfather who drove or fired (the) Flying Scotsman. They never seem to know whether that was the locomotive or the train. I suspect also even where it is true (the locomotive) it was something like 50 yards up the shed road to say they've done it or some other move around the shed as a just passed out fireman or similar.

 

At the risk of thread drift. I worked on the clerical side in the Police Garage 55 years ago straight out of college as my first job, I did once drive a police car a short distance up the car park to move it as it was in the way - I can legitimately say I drove a police car at work, but a big difference between that small yard shunt and being a traffic cop. 

 

I have told this tale on RMWeb before but many years ago, I was at a show in Doncaster with a layout. A mum and dad were looking on with a girl, probably around 8 or 9 years of age. The girl piped up with "My grandad drove the Mallard". I said that I knew the names of some of the people who had driven Mallard and if she told me her grandad's name, I might have heard of him. "Joe Duddington" was the answer. So especially around the right parts of the country, I never treated such claims as suspicious again!

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I agree with you Tony, but I do know of one group/society where the demonstrators can be so engaged in model making that it deters anyone from interrupting their activity. I even saw a post where one of their demonstrators said they were looking forward to manning the stand at a particular show as they hoped to build a particular loco kit over the weekend.

 

For demonstrators, Society representatives, layout owners/operators and traders there is a careful balance to be struck between being welcoming /helpful or off putting/disinterested. The former can put people off (as well as attracting those who want to tell you their modelling life story), as much as the latter.

 

I agree entirely Jol and I have seen and heard similar things. The best demonstrators get that balance just right. You need to be able to spot the right person to open up a dialogue with. You also need to be showing methods that encourage people to have a go when they get home, rather than "look how clever I am"  techniques that are so complex you have to be a well practised expert to get them to work. Some of my favourites are simple tips like making a nice tiled roof for a building, or doing the glazing bars on a window. Another is showing people just how quick and easy it can be to file up rails to make a crossing nose or a blade. Such things can make the difference between somebody having a go at making buildings or points or never trying. It is immensely satisfying if you see the same person a while later and they are now confident at carrying out the work. That has happened more than once to me.

 

I never have any delusions about actually completing much modelling at such a show. The best I do is to come away with a few filed up bits of rail, if I haven't given them away.

 

I really enjoy doing demos but it took me several years to learn how to do it in a way that I think suits the situation of an exhibition. It is a skill that needs to be developed and honed, like so many others. My next trip out will be at EXPO EM in May, where I will be doing a demo on making buildings.

[john new]

14 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I agree with you Tony, but I do know of one group/society where the demonstrators can be so engaged in model making that it deters anyone from interrupting their activity. I even saw a post where one of their demonstrators said they were looking forward to manning the stand at a particular show as they hoped to build a particular loco kit over the weekend.

 

For demonstrators, Society representatives, layout owners/operators and traders there is a careful balance to be struck between being welcoming /helpful or off putting/disinterested. The former can put people off (as well as attracting those who want to tell you their modelling life story), as much as the latter.

Fully concur. 

 

When I do my watercolouring weathering demo I have a stock of completed projects on show. On the Saturday morning I have a set of wagons primed only and also some unprimed ready to do. I can then show how easy adding the over layer is and/or depending on what they have asked prime one. That can dry to join the stock later and I can then move on in best Blue Peter fashion to do the one I primed earlier for phase two. If necessary at a two day show prime a few more late on Saturday to dry off overnight ready for Sunday. I am demonstrating the technique, which is what I am there for, so that the person asking the questions might then go home and have a go themselves. I am not there to do up a string of wagons or whatever for my own layout. Any I do finish in the quiet hour towards the end of the day are a bonus.

 

I think I am there to show people how it can be done and if they want a go let them, rather like a teacher in a school class, I am not there to be head down and actively doing it with no interaction, with no explanation of the whys and wherefores  We have all seen examples of the head down working on the project demonstrators - they are not actually showing anybody anything to learn from as they do not provide context or guidance to those wanting to pick up the knowledge. 

Edited April 12 by john new
Added an extra note