LGBT+ modellers & modelling

[njee20]

16 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Why do we need to be AWARE? It has precisely nothing to do with our ability, or otherwise, to enjoy railway modelling.

 

Personally, I couldn't give a monkey's what the inclinations are of any member of this group - why do we NEED to know?

 

CJI.

Why are you still posting here!? This isn’t a soapbox for you. We have a thread for people who get up early. What’s wrong with one for LBGT+ members? Not for you, move on, you don’t need to loudly announce that it’s not for you, and then repeat it every 5 minutes!

I hope it’s a successful topic! I for one like the various ‘pride’ trains we have, inject a bit of colour and variety to lots of stock!   

[Oldddudders]

3 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I think it's very easy for people such as myself (white, straight, middle class, able bodied, educated etc) to dismiss stuff like this as token gestures or say 'it doesn't matter, you're all the same as us' but if it helps people who might feel a bit isolated within the wider society to feel less isolated, then it's worth doing. And the same goes if the LGBT+ members want to set up their own support network on here. 

Nicely put. Alighting at Crewe on Friday, we saw a Pride Pendolino, and Sherry was impressed. I explained that GWR have a stripey 8XX, too. As well as offering visible "public" support for the LGBT community, it also brightens the gricers' landscape, so everyone wins!

[roundhouse]

2 hours ago, Gatesheadgeek said:

I’m not aware of an LGBT+ topic so I thought I’d take the plunge and start one. Hopefully this won’t cause too much hand wringing but LGBT+ modellers do exist (I know because I’m one of them). The rail industry & allied support sector has 000s of us too. 
 

We had a very wet Northern Pride in Newcastle yesterday and it was partly sponsored by Lumo Trains, so there’s another connection if you wanted one. 

I know that some mutter about so-called “pink washing” of the railways with Pride liveries, but I have seen the impact that such relatively small gestures have on young LGBT travellers (in particular) and I know the Pride-liveried Pendolino has been popular. 
 

Hopefully we can have a safe space on here too. 

We were in Newcastle area over the weekend and picked up that there was an event going on. Yes it was very wet at times.

 

Also by coincidence we had our first trip on Lumo today from Newcastle back to London and it was that very unit. Unfortunately one loo was out of use from the start of the trip and the disabled one went out of use leaving just one at the other end of the train with a massive queue. Ontop of that it was very late and our carriage had two screaming kids and a group of 8 all talking at volume 10 at the same time eventually some of the older females were screeching so much that we went and stood in the vestibule. Amazingly the only delayed and unpleasant train journey of  our two weeks by rail around the UK.

 

So unfortunately we will remember that unit for all the wrong reasons.

Edited July 23, 2023 by roundhouse

[Mallard60022]

11 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Why are you still posting here!? This isn’t a soapbox for you. We have a thread for people who get up early. What’s wrong with one for LBGT+ members? Not for you, move on, you don’t need to loudly announce that it’s not for you, and then repeat it every 5 minutes!

I hope it’s a successful topic! I for one like the various ‘pride’ trains we have, inject a bit of colour and variety to lots of stock!   

Here here.

P

[Phil Parker]

I suppose railway modelling brought me into contact with the first gay couple I recognised - The John and Jerry show, whose breathtaking modelling can now be viewed at Pendon. At the time, they were showing at York, and as far as I recall, no one was remotely bothered. 

 

I'm sure we all know LGBTQ+ modellers, and generally this is a safe space because we are interested in trains before everything else. There will always be bigots, but they are the minority,at least I hope so. 

[John Isherwood]

33 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Why are you still posting here!? 

 

Because I happen to have an opinion concerning the subject of the thread.

 

Inevitably, cries of bigotry are making themselves heard - I defy any and all to point to anything that I have posted here that could remotely be so construed.

 

I made, and repeat, one point - that I fail to see the need for any member to know the orientation of any other member  -

 straight or otherwise. It will add nothing to our appreciation of the posts made, or of the results of that person's modelling activities

 

As such, I can see no justification for a sub-group of members of a particular persuasion. That is my opinion - as valid as any other.

 

CJI.

[njee20]

Yes, and you gave your opinion. Now go away, because the OP started the thread, and therefore does see a reason behind it. You're still literally posting to say "I DON'T THINK THIS IS NECESSARY". Hit the ignore button and move on with your life. I feel frustrated on behalf of the OP that people see fit to declare his topic as pointless, when being totally unaffected by it.

[Mallard60022]

4 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Yes, and you gave your opinion. Now go away, because the OP started the thread, and therefore does see a reason behind it. You're still literally posting to say "I DON'T THINK THIS IS NECESSARY". Hit the ignore button and move on with your life. I feel frustrated on behalf of the OP that people see fit to declare his topic as pointless, when being totally unaffected by it.

Here Here again. He will just go on and on. He does not like being challenged.

Phil 

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Yes, and you gave your opinion. Now go away, because the OP started the thread, and therefore does see a reason behind it.

 

He's not been offensive (like someone else has) but, if there are contributions from others, may begin to understand a bit more about why it's important to many.  Tolerance should work both ways on this one.

[Mallard60022]

10 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Because I happen to have an opinion concerning the subject of the thread.

 

Inevitably, cries of bigotry are making themselves heard - I defy any and all to point to anything that I have posted here that could remotely be so construed.

 

I made, and repeat, one point - that I fail to see the need for any member to know the orientation of any other member  -

 straight or otherwise. It will add nothing to our appreciation of the posts made, or of the results of that person's modelling activities

 

As such, I can see no justification for a sub-group of members of a particular persuasion. That is my opinion - as valid as any other.

 

CJI.

"I can see no justification..."

You are a minority of one. Please just move on.

Phil

[njee20]

  

2 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

He's not been offensive (like someone else has) but, if there are contributions from others, may begin to understand a bit more about why it's important to many.  Tolerance should work both ways on this one.

 

 

Noted! As you were! 

 

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by njee20

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

You are a minority of one.

 

I doubt it but isn't such an isolating and derisive stance in that comment what we would accuse an opponent to the topic doing?

[Guest]

Apologies for being naive in starting this thread and for trouble it’s caused. Should have known better. Thanks to those who’ve messaged in support. 

[John Isherwood]

26 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Yes, and you gave your opinion. Now go away, because the OP started the thread, and therefore does see a reason behind it. You're still literally posting to say "I DON'T THINK THIS IS NECESSARY". Hit the ignore button and move on with your life. I feel frustrated on behalf of the OP that people see fit to declare his topic as pointless, when being totally unaffected by it.

 

There is a greater issue here - if the group is to fracture into cells where only those of a particular sensitivity are welcome, what is to prevent even further factionalisation on the basis of race, creed, colour, etc., etc.

 

We have hitherto been a cohesive group of railway modellers - despite our diverse interests of scale, period, geographical location, methods of construction, etc., etc.

 

Firm views have been expressed, and there have been strong disagreements at times, but we have always managed to maintain an inclusive attitude to all shades of opinion.

 

However, the subject of this thread - which has nothing whatsoever to do with railway modelling per se - has already lead us into a situation where I am being told to 'go away' - effectively  'you're not one of us, so your views are not welcome'.

 

I do not feel that the presence of such a sensitive sub-group can in any way enhance this forum, and could well damage it.

 

Again, my honest opinion - to which I am entitled.

 

CJI.

[Jeff Smith]

I have not lived in the UK for 30+ years although am generally aware of the LBGT climate through internet radio and visits.  RMweb is a UK platform and Wheeltappers is a generally non-modelling forum which caters to many unrelated topics of interest to various groups within the overall membership.  This is as it should be and there are members worlwide.

 

I belong to a minority group (clothing optional) and live part time in a resort catering to myself, my wife and other like-minded people.  We have lively discussions about various topics but politics and religion are definitely off the table unless we know someone's views and agree.  There are several same-sex couples but their personal preferences are never discussed or challenged.  So the point I am making from a US viewpoint is that here the LGBTQ aspect is incredibly politically charged and linked very closely with political identity any general discussion of which can quickly spiral out of control.

 

I would finally point out that peoples' interests, including those on Wheeltappers and my own are optional.  For most of the LGBTQ community it is not an optional interest.  Some might say that this should probably exclude it from Wheeltappers but that's not an argument I plan on taking part in......

[sandra]

21 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

There is a greater issue here - if the group is to fracture into cells where only those of a particular sensitivity are welcome, what is to prevent even further factionalisation on the basis of race, creed, colour, etc., etc.

 

We have hitherto been a cohesive group of railway modellers - despite our diverse interests of scale, period, geographical location, methods of construction, etc., etc.

 

Firm views have been expressed, and there have been strong disagreements at times, but we have always managed to maintain an inclusive attitude to all shades of opinion.

 

However, the subject of this thread - which has nothing whatsoever to do with railway modelling per se - has already lead us into a situation where I am being told to 'go away' - effectively  'you're not one of us, so your views are not welcome'.

 

I do not feel that the presence of such a sensitive sub-group can in any way enhance this forum, and could well damage it.

 

Again, my honest opinion - to which I am entitled.

 

CJI.

I don’t see any objection to an LGBTQ thread. There are a number of different threads on here some of which hardly unite everyone. There’s one on cats. I love cats but some people hate them but if you don’t like the cats thread don’t read it.
 

There are many threads on here which I ignore because I’m not interested in the subject but I don’t object to their existence. Some of these threads don’t relate to model railways but does that matter? I don’t think it’s the right of any one person to try and dictate what should be discussed in this forum.

[Jonboy]

There was this previous topic that over its course was very informative about a legitimate section of society, and from what I remember (without re-reading it tonight!) was very supportive:

 

 

[The Johnster]

Good grief, there'll be women modellers next.  Oh, wait, hang on a mo...

 

As a straight man, I am delighted to have lived through a time when prejudice and bigotry against people who sexually identify differently to me has lessened considerably, both through legislative leadership and a general increase in public tolerance and acceptance; if any of my stated opinions or actions have helped this process in even a very small way, I would be very proud of that.  And the same goes for gender and racial equality as well; the world is hard enough to deal with without splitting it into pointless and damaging factions to satisfy threatened egos.  The world is a better place in this way than it was fifty years ago; let's be grateful for that and keep trying to make it better still!

 

If you're gay, you're the same as me, only gay, and I'm happy enough with that.  If you're straight, you're the same as me, and I'm happy with that, and the same as the gay bloke, only not gay, and I'm happy enough with that as well.  I'm much more interested in your layout in any event...

[The Johnster]

2 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I think it's very easy for people such as myself (white, straight, middle class, able bodied, educated etc) to dismiss stuff like this as token gestures or say 'it doesn't matter, you're all the same as us' but if it helps people who might feel a bit isolated within the wider society to feel less isolated, then it's worth doing. And the same goes if the LGBT+ members want to set up their own support network on here. 

 

 

 

Seconded, thirded, and fourthed; well said Pete. 

[Sidecar Racer]

51 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

However, the subject of this thread - which has nothing whatsoever to do with railway modelling per se - has already lead us into a situation where I am being told to 'go away' - effectively  'you're not one of us, so your views are not welcome'.

 

 

  My Bold above and my only comment is this ,  also my bold below .

 

Wheeltappers

The non-railway and non-modelling social zone. Please ensure forum rules are adhered to in this area too!

 

[jjb1970]

Wheeltappers is the social and off topic thread, therefore I don't see why the OP would be considered problematic. If people don't like it then fine, just ignore the thread but I don't see why it should be an issue to anyone if others have a social thread to interact. It's one thread, it's not like the whole of RMWeb is dividing based on identity, and if minority groups (of any group) feel more at home here with such a thread then why not? 

[Mallard60022]

9 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I doubt it but isn't such an isolating and derisive stance in that comment what we would accuse an opponent to the topic doing?

 

9 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I doubt it but isn't such an isolating and derisive stance in that comment what we would accuse an opponent to the topic doing?

Not so. On this thread and in the context of the discussion, that person is a minority of one. How is that derisive in this context?

They could accept that this thread isn't for them and just move on? 

I stand by my comment Andy.

Phil

[Mallard60022]

10 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I doubt it but isn't such an isolating and derisive stance in that comment what we would accuse an opponent to the topic doing?

 

10 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I doubt it but isn't such an isolating and derisive stance in that comment what we would accuse an opponent to the topic doing?

Not so. On this thread and in the context of the discussion, that person is a minority of one. How is that derisive in this context?

They could accept that this thread isn't for them and just move on? 

I stand by my comment Andy.

Phil

[AY Mod]

I am not in the mood to start the week off with arguments or further explaining myself and I have other things I have to get on with today.

 

That's it. Locked.