Lost Exhibitions

[wainwright1]

Does anyone know if the former Epsom and Ewell and/or Woking (REC) exhibitions will return next year ?

 

Many thanks

 

Ray

Edited August 27, 2023 by wainwright1
spelling

[cp409067]

*

Sadly the REC exhibition is no more.  See  below.

 

CP

 

 

 

[Dave Searle]

Hi,

 

We (Epsom & Ewell MRC) are looking at options for future exhibitions and open days, however, nothing is planned at the moment.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Chris M]

There is a double whammy regarding exhibitions. First, the average age of members for most clubs is steadily rising. Secondly it is increasingly difficult to find a good location for an exhibition at a reasonable price.

[wainwright1]

Many thanks for the information.

 

At least the Chatham club seem to be on the up and bringing back their show at the Dockyard next year.

 

All the best

 

Ray

[TheQ]

My club Broadland MRC, lost the use of the big hall we used to use which was church owned, it's church use only now . With the deficit of big halls in the area, we've gone to having two, smaller events in different village halls.

 

From what we've found village hall cost is so much cheaper than the big hall it more than compensates for the loss of big show income.

It's easier to both organise and operate the two smaller shows than the big one.

The physical effort to transport, assemble and disassemble the show is much less.

 

Even if a big hall became available again I doubt the membership would wish to back to such a show.

[geoffers]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

My club Broadland MRC, lost the use of the big hall we used to use which was church owned, it's church use only now . With the deficit of big halls in the area, we've gone to having two, smaller events in different village halls.

 

From what we've found village hall cost is so much cheaper than the big hall it more than compensates for the loss of big show income.

It's easier to both organise and operate the two smaller shows than the big one.

The physical effort to transport, assemble and disassemble the show is much less.

 

Even if a big hall became available again I doubt the membership would wish to back to such a show.

Enjoyed your show yesterday. Good talking to you and thanks to "the loco doctor" for repairs to 6869 " Resolven Grange".

[PMP]

Does anyone have any news if the Chiltern St. Albans/Stevenage show will return at any foreseeable point? 
 

I know the reasons for both venues stoppages, however it was always a favourite show and a good start to the new year. One of the shows I miss the most.

[cornelius]

Last I heard was that with the loss of the Stevenage venue and the usual demographic issues it is not actively being considered.

[jonhall]

2 hours ago, PMP said:

Does anyone have any news if the Chiltern St. Albans/Stevenage show will return at any foreseeable point? 
 

I know the reasons for both venues stoppages, however it was always a favourite show and a good start to the new year. One of the shows I miss the most.

 

It needs people to stand up and do the organisation, and when I last discussed it with a CMRA board member there wasn't anyone in the frame, therefore its future is bleak until that changes.

 

personal opinion - And the longer it remains moribund, the less likely a re-staging is likely to be, as the knowledge and workforce drift away.

 

Jon

Edited August 29, 2023 by jonhall

[Geep7]

I think the biggest hurdle these days (other than the ageing memberships and venue costs) is finding enough people with the spare time on their hands.

 

When I was helping out with the REC exhibition (mostly as chief stewards and marking out), a typical Exhibition weekend would be as follows; I would be at the exhibition venue, from about 12pm on the Friday, and not getting home until somewhere between 9 and 10pm, then be back at the venue again on the Saturday from about 7am until after the show has closed, and the halls all locked up, then back again (slightly later at 8am) on the Sunday, until at least 6-7pm, once all the hall and barriers had been cleared. Even though being a fairly young (mid-40's), fit? and able person, I usually took the following Monday off work, just to get over it.

 

Also, as the show guide editor, the month before the show would be spent drafting, editing and re-editing the guide, before the deadline to send to the publishers. I'd usually be burning the midnight candle the week before the deadline, just to make sure the guide was correct (the odd mistake still crept in). All this whilst bringing up a family and working full time 9-5.

 

I must confess, that i'm probably rather unusual, in that i've been a lifelong modeller, and haven't really taken a break away from it (except whilst at university, where I just didn't have the space), and my wife has been hugely understanding in me spending so much time at exhibitions (especially the REC exhibition, as it always used to fall on or around our wedding anniversary).

 

But I do understand that there are a lot of people out there who can't spare this amount of time, essentially, volunteering, and this is increasingly becoming the case I feel, unfortunately. Even I have felt the squeeze recently, with an almost teenage son, and have a much more important job role than previously, so have to carefully choose when I can be free to help out.

[Clive Mortimore]

It is sad for what ever reason a popular and good exhibition stops being held. It is part of life.

 

As part of the DEMU showcase team there are a multitude of hurdles to overcome in arranging a show. A couple of examples form our show this year. Not enough stewards caused by us booking too many of those willing help bring their layouts, that was our own fault.  Cost of hotels in the Sutton Coldfield area, our show was the same date as a cricket match with some Bruces from down under held nearby and some geezer calls Springsteen singing some songs at the NEC, so as not to break the bank we had to put the exhibitors in hotels further away than we would have liked. It only takes a few too many of these little problems and those who have the enthusiasm to organise a show to lose that drive and either the show goes into decline or doesn't happen.

 

A big one is finding a new suitable venue at a price which can be afforded, no matter why a show needs to move it will never be terrific new location for many here on RMweb.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Let's face it - exhibitions are under threat for all the reasons outlined above.

 

As regards the age issue - I don't think that it's necessarily that younger people aren't modelling, it's that the younger modellers who do exist are not so keen to join clubs these days - because they don't need to as much as they did in earlier times (i.e. pre-internet).

 

There is a trend in some cases to move to one day shows with cheaper layouts  - that is not good news for those of us that have large 'exhibition-only' layouts.

 

 

That's why I'm keen to 'make hay, whilst the sun shines' and exhibit as often as I can - whilst there are still big shows around who will be able to accomodate us.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Whilst the concept of Magazine/Trade promoted shows started pre Covid, since the noticeable decline in the number and size of shows post Covid, I can foresee this trend continuing and one day "pop up" exhibitions becoming more the norm, and generally the only "big" shows are going to be the Magazine /Trade shows who must continue to service the hobby/industry in which they have such a vested interest.

Does anyone else think this is the future?

 

Mike. 

[Pacific231G]

Can we learn anything from the exhibition scene in other countries (even though post Brexit customs requirements now make it much harder to actually take layouts to them from Britain and vice-versa as we used to )?

 

I've noticed that in France most club exhibtions- which almost all the regular exhibitions are- seem to be biennial. Perhaps that puts less strain on a club's human resources while model railway clubs, though fewer in number than in Britain, also seem to have a higher proportion of younger members). The emphasis also seems to be on showing off the hobby, not on raising funds for the club.  Possibly for that reason, local clubs seem to benefit from sports halls etc. being regarded as a public good for a range of leisure activities by local authorities rather than as a revenue generator. The large annual two-day exhibition held every January in St. Mandé (a suburban town at the end of the Paris Métro) is even held in the town hall.

However, one of the best and largest biennial exhibitions - the one in Orleans- wasn't held in 2022 and won't be returning in that form because the city passed its large exhibtion halls to a private operator who naturally bumped up its rates (and cannot yet provide WiFi which is a no-no for traders) 

Loco-Revue (the largest circulation model railway magazine in France)  did organise two large three-day exhibitions "Trainsmania" in Lille, the first and larger of them   inn 2017 to mark its own 80th anniversary. They were planning to make this show biennial and held a show in 2019 and a virtual show during the pandemic in 2021, but decided not to  hold one in 2023 given uncertainties about likely attendances. 

 

Trainsmania is the only sponsored Model Railway exhibtion that I'm aware of but there are multi-format model shows like the biennial RAMMA in Sedan (next one in June 2024) where the local mulidisciplinary model club (based in a large social centre)  partners with the town, département and region and with Edtions Loco-Revue. 

 

I know very little about them but it might be interesting to also find out what MRCs in Belgium, The Netherlands and Germany do in terms of exhibitions.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Pacific231G

[009 micro modeller]

On 29/08/2023 at 16:18, cornelius said:

Last I heard was that with the loss of the Stevenage venue and the usual demographic issues it is not actively being considered.

I might have missed this, or just forgotten, but what happened with the Stevenage venue? I’m not sure if it’s affected by the current redevelopment of the town centre. Ironically I was in Stevenage earlier to visit KS Models in the old town. Would it have been possible to go back to St Albans instead? This wasn’t the most accessible or easy to navigate venue but presumably better than nothing. Appreciate if there are other reasons that haven’t been made public of course.

 

Another loss within the past decade or so is NG South West (Shepton Mallet) which if I remember correctly was because the same group of people who had always been running were getting older and needed a break, so demographic issues again. I understand that ExpoNG at Swanley stopped mainly because of the redevelopment of the venue (though there might have been other factors as well). I don’t know if the redevelopment includes new sports halls of similar size to the old ones that would be suitable for an exhibition in any case.

 

7 hours ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

As regards the age issue - I don't think that it's necessarily that younger people aren't modelling, it's that the younger modellers who do exist are not so keen to join clubs these days - because they don't need to as much as they did in earlier times (i.e. pre-internet).

 

On 31/08/2023 at 14:21, Geep7 said:

I think the biggest hurdle these days (other than the ageing memberships and venue costs) is finding enough people with the spare time on their hands.

As a ‘younger person’ who does model railways, I would agree it is to do with spare time and also being able to commit to things a long way in advance, which for a lot of people is difficult if they need that spare time time for career development/extra work/study, or if they’re working on a short term contract etc. etc. I realise I’m not a typical example because my chosen career means that I’m currently working lots of weekends (but not this particular one) which means I don’t go to as many of my 009 Society group’s meetings as I did when I was younger and also means I’m not always available to volunteer for the local amateur sport events run by another group I’m involved with. But I help out when I have the time and energy to. Similar arguments have been made about volunteering on heritage railways, although I think they perhaps don’t apply to model railway exhibition organisation to the same extent as obviously the specialist training and frequency of commitment required isn’t really comparable.

 

In my own group (like many 009 Society/NG groups) we had an ‘open day’ which grew into a one-day, village hall-based, but still impressive exhibition (with proper food available, guest layouts from outside our group as well as our own etc). We can’t run this in quite the same form any more; as well as not having anyone to take over as the main organiser (despite lots of people in the group having the necessary skills/expertise, again it’s more about time and energy), we also are not able to use the original venue, which we were originally able to get at a reduced price because one of our members was local and connected with the venue. There was also a feeling that we should scale back a bit to running an event showcasing our own layouts a bit more (as implied by the original idea of an ‘open day’) and with reduced staffing requirements so that we don’t all have to be stewards/front of house/catering and can operate our layouts. We did generally derive some income from the show but there was also risk, in the form of hotel bookings and expenses for guest layouts and the possibility that we might have to cancel due to bad weather (or whatever).

 

As a general point, I think Covid has forced a lot of clubs to have a bit of a rethink (not just in the model railway world but in other volunteer/community groups). You could say that it’s the pandemic itself and that it’s made organisations more risk-averse, which I suppose is true in some cases, but I think the enforced break in in-person events also encouraged everyone to review what they were doing and in some cases meant that potential volunteers/organisers drifted away to other things.

[ELTEL]

Stafford Railway Circle (Chilterns Association Member) will be going ahead at a new date of 23rd & 24th September 

 

We are a totally club based exhibition and probably the largest independent model railway exhibition.

 

See our website at www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk/exhibitions

 

Full list of all layouts including photographs and a comprehensive list of top traders 

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

13 hours ago, ELTEL said:

Stafford Railway Circle (Chilterns Association Member) will be going ahead at a new date of 23rd & 24th September 

 

We are a totally club based exhibition and probably the largest independent model railway exhibition.

 

See our website at www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk/exhibitions

 

Full list of all layouts including photographs and a comprehensive list of top traders 

 

 

 

A date that also clashes with Scaleforum in High Wycombe, where the really top traders will be attending. 

 

In response to other comments in this topic, perhaps we were oversubscribed with exhibitions prior to Covid. It seemed every club held an exhibition, partly for reasons of Kudos and partly to make money. Equally visitors expected (and some still do) very low entrance charges. Whilst valid for a small local show where an hour or two is perhaps the most many or us could keep ourselves entertained that is unreasonable for a larger show where better and larger layout owners/operators need accommodation and travel expenses. So perhaps fewer but larger shows jointly arranged by several clubs in a locality or bi-annual events might be worth considering.

 

Sadly we have relatively few dedicated exhibition venues and so have to rely on schools, village halls and sports centres, most of which are often not very suitable. Poor exhibitor/trader access, poor catering (especially sports centres), insufficient parking (taking into account the regular users).  Some venues (usually local council run) insist on specific use of their staff for "security" reasons, adding unnecessary cost.

 

All this needs organisation and management which needs people. Sadly, with some exceptions it seems to fall to a few people within a club and, if for a variety of reasons, they are unable to continue year after year, an exhibition will cease unless other members come forward to help/takeover. I have seen this with several otherwise very good and successful exhibitions, as well as other volunteer run/supported activities outside railway modelling.

 

 

[Oldddudders]

Growing up in Surrey, the two big London exhibitions - Easter & August Bank Hol weekend - were always a target. If either venue still exists - Methodist Central Hall & RHS Vincent Square - no doubt the costs are off the scale. I suppose Ally Pally supplanted them.

 

Times change, and I sympathise with those trying to make bricks without straw. Exhibitions can inspire and inform, as well as being a marketplace. Their loss is bad news.

 

Our own RMweb Taunton show goes from strength to strength, it seems, but it is unusual in its financial structure, and has had a succession of bright and energetic organisers, as well as members who put a few coins in the tin. And the clientele is so exclusive....

 

As for Stafford, I went last year and loved it. Fine, spacious venue, excellent organisation, plenty of great layouts and traders, affordable food. And the vintage bus from Stafford station was really good news, being diverted the long way round due to a road-race!

[AY Mod]

3 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Our own RMweb Taunton show goes from strength to strength, it seems, but it is unusual in its financial structure, and has had a succession of bright and energetic organisers, as well as members who put a few coins in the tin. And the clientele is so exclusive....

 

As for Stafford, I went last year and loved it. Fine, spacious venue, excellent organisation, plenty of great layouts and traders, affordable food. And the vintage bus from Stafford station was really good news, being diverted the long way round due to a road-race!

 

Where there's a will (and a venue) there's a way.

 

Costs are spiralling for all venues, they've all got to cover increased staff, energy and insurance costs before any of the club's variable costs come into the equation.

 

Admission fees are consequently, and rightly, increasing - how much of an impact that has, particularly to casual local and family attendees, remains to be seen.

 

I can understand clubs reticencr to take increased cost risks if they don't have a good following wind.

[melmoth]

21 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

...if they don't have a good following wind.

 

Sooner or later, any conversation about exhibitions reaches the question of rucksacks and their owners.

[arran]

HI All

 

The exhibitions that have failed have done so for many reasons,  but i suspect the main one being  not enough people through the door to pay its way.

 

I know from experience that change of venues are not always by choice as circumstances can dictate that move but keeping the same dates or very close to help greatly, change the venue and dates you are going to struggle.  

 

Ego trips by some over the years has also played its part in downfalls of exhibitions where they cant get over the glory years .

 

I could go on But for once i wont .

 

Regards Arran

 

  

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

11 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

In response to other comments in this topic, perhaps we were oversubscribed with exhibitions prior to Covid. It seemed every club held an exhibition, partly for reasons of Kudos and partly to make money. Equally visitors expected (and some still do) very low entrance charges. Whilst valid for a small local show where an hour or two is perhaps the most many or us could keep ourselves entertained that is unreasonable for a larger show where better and larger layout owners/operators need accommodation and travel expenses. So perhaps fewer but larger shows jointly arranged by several clubs in a locality or bi-annual events might be worth considering.

In the 009/NG modelling world the local group ‘open days’/exhibitions are usually well-attended, as people are willing to travel long distances to attend a high quality and 009/NG-specific event even if it’s relatively small, but there are still local modellers and families attending as well, as at more general exhibitions. Some of them could probably benefit from a little bit of consolidation/cooperation though, i.e. two neighbouring groups joining forces to run an open day. The number of area groups in the 009 Society seems to have increased in recent years, and the number of members definitely has, although I don’t know how representative this is of the wider hobby. Also in terms of the smaller shows, there seem to be a few new ones starting (or at least running as a one-off) even as others stop.

[ngtrains.com]

1 hour ago, arran said:

The exhibitions that have failed have done so for many reasons, but i suspect the main one being  not enough people through the door to pay its way.

I don't think that is true at all. The ones I used to attend as a trader, all be it they were mostly narrow gauge shows stopped because: -

• A decision by the ageing organisers to finish on a high at a landmark 25th (NGSW)
• Lack of new blood/Ageing organisers (SWING)
• Loss of venue (EXPONG and DERBY)
• Not enough organisers (or the same few got fed up) (Chiltern NG)

I dont think many have Failed as such but then I may be misunderstanding what you mean by failed. I see failed as "gone bust" or "made a loss" whereas I think failed here is being used to describe the concious decision to not put a show on in the current financial climate. Not quite the same thing.

[TheQ]

On 28/08/2023 at 17:43, geoffers said:

Enjoyed your show yesterday. Good talking to you and thanks to "the loco doctor" for repairs to 6869 " Resolven Grange".

Thanks, John our loco doctor is also our show manager..

I'll let him know of your appreciation next time I see him.