Lost Exhibitions

[009 micro modeller]

14 hours ago, john new said:

A mix of changing life styles and the age bands below the baby-boomer years appearing to have a reduced desire to assist run things although they still want to consume.

I refer you to my previous post (or part of it, anyway):

 

On 02/09/2023 at 18:10, 009 micro modeller said:

As a ‘younger person’ who does model railways, I would agree it is to do with spare time and also being able to commit to things a long way in advance, which for a lot of people is difficult if they need that spare time time for career development/extra work/study, or if they’re working on a short term contract etc. etc. I realise I’m not a typical example because my chosen career means that I’m currently working lots of weekends (but not this particular one) which means I don’t go to as many of my 009 Society group’s meetings as I did when I was younger and also means I’m not always available to volunteer for the local amateur sport events run by another group I’m involved with. But I help out when I have the time and energy to. Similar arguments have been made about volunteering on heritage railways, although I think they perhaps don’t apply to model railway exhibition organisation to the same extent as obviously the specialist training and frequency of commitment required isn’t really comparable.

Younger people do still volunteer, when we can. Actually, when I was at university there were lots of student-led volunteering groups, some undertaking projects of significant complexity, and other people volunteering with other local organisations while they were studying. I’m not sure what conclusion we can draw from that about how people can be encouraged to volunteer, but that’s again a bit off-topic.

[Mike_Walker]

I think the lack of volunteers is the saddest part.  Our local railway society (real not model) is typical.  At the end of the evening you almost get trampled by the rush for the door even as the speaker is wrapping up in case they have to put the chairs away and generally clean up.  That's if you can get them to come in person and not sit on the sofa at home watching on Zoom and eating Hobnobs.  Suggesting we stop Zoom and you'd think we were suggesting culling their first born!

 

It's not just a railway thing either.  Our local cricket club has the same issues, no shortage of players but are they prepared to arrive a little early to set things up and stay late to pack away?  No - some can't even be bothered to stay to watch the end of the game if we are batting second even if it looks like a tight result is in prospect.  Legislation issues mentioned by others have resulted in the club having to disband its Colts section as none of the senior players want to go through the bureaucracy required before they can coach the youngsters. 

 

Locally we have lost two exhibitions, the Beaconsfield show and the High Wycombe club's Wycrail which was always much looked forward to by many.  I understand that in both cases the main reason is diminishing club membership and an unwillingness among those that remain to organise them.  The Wycombe club did have a much smaller show earlier this year as an experiment but despite being well attended I hear that it's unlikely to be repeated - hopefully that will not be the case.

 

The internet is responsible for much of this, and in our field, RMweb in particular!  Here are dozens, nay hundreds of inspirational layouts and any "how do I" questions will almost certainly be answered by our most knowledgeable contributors within minutes.  I'm not a member of any MRC but I have considered it.  However, it's the cost that puts me off.  I have only a certain budget for modelling and I can best use that (in my opinion) in actual modelling rather than subscriptions - ten or twenty years ago it would have been different.  Hopefully, that doesn't make me sound "selfish".

 

Every time I see those BT adverts on the TV with the tag line "Staying in is the new going out" I want to scream!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

31 minutes ago, Mike_Walker said:

It's not just a railway thing either.  Our local cricket club has the same issues, no shortage of players but are they prepared to arrive a little early to set things up and stay late to pack away?  No - some can't even be bothered to stay to watch the end of the game if we are batting second even if it looks like a tight result is in prospect. 

Locally we have lost two exhibitions, the Beaconsfield show and the High Wycombe club's Wycrail which was always much looked forward to by many.  I understand that in both cases the main reason is diminishing club membership and an unwillingness among those that remain to organise them. 

 

I think that there are several factors - some of which might be :

 

1. People in general have lost the concept of a 'club' in the sense that every member shares the responsibility to make that club 'work'. Back in the day (1960's/70') my club had very active general meetings (four per year) which would sometimes go on for two hours or more as members queued up to voice their opinions on every issue facing the club - nowadays we have just our AGM which can be over in 20 minutes. Members now leave decision making 'to the committee'. 

 

2. In that same context, people are used to 'paying a bit extra' rather than contributing by helping out. For example, if you join a gym you don't expect to stay behind and tidy up the place, turn out the lights, lock up etc - you pay the company who owns the gym to hire someone to do that for you. In a model railway club that's not the way it works!

 

3. The very fact that many/most clubs are dominated by 'old people' might tend to put youngsters off. Generally speaking we tend to bond more with people where we have things in common to chat about - music, films, culture - and I am aware that I would share very few such interests with someone 40 years younger than me.

 

 

[009 micro modeller]

4 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

1. People in general have lost the concept of a 'club' in the sense that every member shares the responsibility to make that club 'work'. Back in the day (1960's/70') my club had very active general meetings (four per year) which would sometimes go on for two hours or more as members queued up to voice their opinions on every issue facing the club - nowadays we have just our AGM which can be over in 20 minutes. Members now leave decision making 'to the committee'. 

Is there a reason for this though? In some organisations, that have become much bigger over the years than they were originally, I can sort of see how the format you describe wouldn’t make as much sense as it did originally. Equally there are other groups that have ended up operating more and more like a business and less like a membership organisation, so perhaps their members are just following that with the way they perceive and contribute to them.

 

10 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

For example, if you join a gym you don't expect to stay behind and tidy up the place, turn out the lights, lock up etc - you pay the company who owns the gym to hire someone to do that for you. In a model railway club that's not the way it works!

It’s not the way it works in an amateur sports group either though, which is more comparable to a model railway club. A gym is generally either a commercial business or sometimes a subsidised facility for public use.

 

13 minutes ago, TEAMYAKIMA said:

people are used to 'paying a bit extra' rather than contributing by helping out.

Is this because they don’t have as much time as they would like to but feel that they should contribute in other ways?

[john new]

I live on an island, so a partially closed catchment. It always seems to be the same people helping with chairs etc.,  at the event end even if they aren’t actively involved in that group. 

 

At the risk of thread drift I think there is a “doing/helping” ethic which is transmitted down the generations based partially, but not exclusively, on parental attitudes. I also think that is not 100%, let’s say an arbitrary 25% drop off to which social factors like modern shift patterns  etc,, etc., amplify. During the last major war the helping ethic was very high. If each succeeding generation has lost a percentage who have that familiarly influenced helping out factor, and the reasons are varied and in many cases genuine, it is unsurprising it is now a lot lower. Think of it like triangle with the widest input at the top heading downwards towards the point.

 

The points others have mentioned also assist in the change. My eldest daughter would volunteer but can’t at the present time due to her and my son in law’s shift patterns. She works days, he works a twilight shift so family circumstance preclude either joining clubs even where they want to.

 

Nb my other daughter can and often does.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by john new
Added the end note.

[john new]

5 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

I shall be going to High Wycombe to visit Scaleforum. The clash of dates has always precluded a trip to Staffordshire to see what the fuss is all about, although looking at the list of  traders I would find very little to put my wallet under strain.

 

Keep the hobby going? I wonder to what extent the internet now plays a bigger role in that than exhibitions?  Exhibitions were where you went for inspiration, specialist traders/products not always available locally, demos on how to do/make things, etc. That is lacking at many "local " shows (I can't think of one in East Anglia since the Southwold show stopped). Perhaps that is indicative of where the hobby has gone.

Definitely some part. There have been a few of the regional shows towards the borderline areas for me of being a comfortable out and back drive in the day visits (as punter not exhibitor) where I have thought I will just wait for the YouTube coverage.

[TheQ]

If you live on the coast that's half your possible show area gone. If you live on the coast of Norfolk that's 2/3s of the possible show area gone.. sea north north east, round to south of me...

 

The child protection act post the 2002 murders at Soham had a lot to answer for.

Some authorities went way over the top in their requirements. My sailing club had to provide  to the council, to the police, to the child protection authority ...a map of the sailing club , the grounds, plus  a map of the pub and the grounds next door!!

 

My MRC decided juniors were just not worth the effort, ...

 

At the sailing club someone was complaining about the bird poo on the club quay, " someone should clear it up" I handed them the brush and said... you're a someone ... amused... not..

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by TheQ

[adb968008]

You know I just woke up to the fact that nearly all my local exhibtions have gone…

 

Wimbledon, Carshalton, Epsom all havent hosted a show in some time.

Ive got Tolworth in November, I missed South Croydon…

 

Just 1 in 5 this year…

 

 

[Not Jeremy]

A couple of thoughts, nothing stays the same forever, much as we may like it to, and various posts above have highlighted lots of  reasons for the contraction of shows, some much missed for sure.
 

That  said, I suspect that there might have been too many shows “pre Plague” if I may put it that way, there were a lot of shows for sure - were they all that good?

 

If big shows are too expensive then start with a small one, and pick your participants with a view to how you want the show to appear. Give it a theme, be imaginative, persuade participants to join in for little money, donate proceeds to a charity, make it scale specific, make it something you or your friends are interested in, it is possible to get some good trade if you limit the numbers and have a theme or focus. In short - start something new! Reasonably priced venues are around, if you budget accordingly then you don’t “need” thousands of visitors either. You won’t create a Warley but you might have a lot of fun and grow something new, acorns and oak trees etc. Also, do it with people you like and get on with, and who will “get” what you are trying to do. An example of this, which is also a “lost”” show was the Shepton Mallet Small and Delightful NG show, a great bunch of people first and a great show second!

[John M Upton]

This thread has got me totting up the shows I used to go to as well.  Of the dozen or so I used to attend, this year just Bognor in January, Ally Pally in March (and only just as a train strike nearly sunk the plan) and the very good Seeboard Southern US outline show in Crawley last Saturday (there is a overseas show for you) so far this year.

 

I am hoping to attend Fareham in October and Brighton but that will be it and even then if train strikes are called (Yes, that irritating political bun fight is STILL rumbling on!) that could become non runners too.

 

Missing from my annual lists are Horsham (Crawley), Ewell East, Woking, Chichester Lions Club and at least three or four others.

[Jol Wilkinson]

9 hours ago, John M Upton said:

This thread has got me totting up the shows I used to go to as well.  Of the dozen or so I used to attend, this year just Bognor in January, Ally Pally in March (and only just as a train strike nearly sunk the plan) and the very good Seeboard Southern US outline show in Crawley last Saturday (there is a overseas show for you) so far this year.

 

I am hoping to attend Fareham in October and Brighton but that will be it and even then if train strikes are called (Yes, that irritating political bun fight is STILL rumbling on!) that could become non runners too.

 

Missing from my annual lists are Horsham (Crawley), Ewell East, Woking, Chichester Lions Club and at least three or four others.

 

I suggest you add the SHMRC Portsmouth show, held in November, to your list of shows to visit. An excellent one day show.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Jol Wilkinson
typo

[ELTEL]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

I suggest you add the SHMRC Portsmouth show, held in November, to your list of shows to visit. An excellent one day show.

You could be even more adventurous and come to the Stafford Exhibition this weekend as we rail strike free this weekend and a complementary preserved bus trip from Stafford station to the exhibition.

 

Terry 

[PMP]

13 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

 

That  said, I suspect that there might have been too many shows “pre Plague” if I may put it that way, there were a lot of shows for sure - were they all that good?

 

If big shows are too expensive then start with a small one, and pick your participants with a view to how you want the show to appear.

 I agree regarding the pre Plague number of shows and quality, there were definitely some that were past their sell by date too. I’d already cut back by 2020 on the shows I’d visited, and frequently there wasn’t anything trade or layout that I wanted to see in many of those shows so they had no appeal for me to visit.

 

The one day, small themed show is an area I think has the potential to expand, and I’ve started the initial process of looking at one in the East Midlands for potentially Summer 2024. I think had Derby, Nottingham and Lincoln still been active it would still have work in its own right, as it’s different and will use a different model to the ‘traditional club show’. Having done the initial venue queries as @Not Jeremy says they are out there, but it’s a different ‘business model’ approach being taken, and small sized that might be potentially opening doors.

[Jol Wilkinson]

4 hours ago, ELTEL said:

You could be even more adventurous and come to the Stafford Exhibition this weekend as we rail strike free this weekend and a complementary preserved bus trip from Stafford station to the exhibition.

 

Terry 

 

Terry, thanks for the invite but had you read my earlier post, would would have seen that I am going to Scaleforum at High Wycombe.

 

Whilst the Stafford show has some excellent layouts of interest, as a modeller/maker of P4 pre-group models the trade at your show has very little of interest to me. On the other hand, shows like Scaleforum and expoEM does attract those traders whose products I buy. As is often the case, while it is possible to buy from online, it is good to meet and support them at a show.

 

It is good that the weekend will be free from rail strikes for travel to Stafford. However, from Felixstowe it is a 10 - 1/2 hour round trip by rail. By car  it is about 6 -1/2 hours round trip, making for a rather longer day than I like to contemplate at my age.

 

Jol

[298]

On 17/09/2023 at 17:36, Willie Whizz said:

The East Midlands has suffered very badly with the loss of 'large' exhibitions - in the last few years Nottingham, Derby, the GCR event at Quorn and other locations along the preserved line, and the Newark (run IIRC by the Lincoln club) shows have all gone outright or been reduced to a shadow of their former selves.  There didn't seem to be a shortage of bodies through the doors at any of them (pre-COVID at least), except Nottingham (East Mids) was as I understand it badly affected by an 'extreme weather event' killing the attendance on the Sunday and never recovered.  All so sad ...

 

2 hours ago, PMP said:

The one day, small themed show is an area I think has the potential to expand, and I’ve started the initial process of looking at one in the East Midlands for potentially Summer 2024. I think had Derby, Nottingham and Lincoln still been active it would still have work in its own right, 

 

Nottingham upsized to the Harvey Hadden Stadium sports hall in 2000 but about ten years ago had to take a temporary hiatus to a nearby school due to the council closing it to build a swimming pool next to it. Despite show being as large as previously and other shows being held in similar venues the public didn't really get along with the change and attendance dropped even after returning to the Harvey Hadden. This coincided with the passing of long term exhibition manager Ian Trivett, and with no-one available with as much time to spare to organise such a show the club downsized to a smaller and more manageable annual event in Clifton. The council must have got wind of this and decided to close that venue too, so currently the club organises a small spring show in Hucknall, a larger one in the east of Nottingham on the first weekend in November, and members also organise one for the GCR(N) in Ruddington at the end of June.

[pete_mcfarlane]

 

On 18/09/2023 at 07:31, Mike Bellamy said:

As far as I am aware, the only "large" exhibition is the Soar Valley Club's show at Loughborough in August with around 30 layouts and 25 traders and was well worth a visit. Of course it depends on your interpretation of East Midlands - isn't there a large show at Spalding and of course over on this side of Derbyshire, we're not far from Stafford..

 

There's also a big Gauge One show in the agricultural centre in Bakewell. Apart from that, Spalding and Loughborough are now the only big East Midlands shows I can think of. 

 

On 17/09/2023 at 19:57, Claude_Dreyfus said:

Knowing a few people involved with Scouting, the reasons for adults (and volunteers in general) dropping out is in part due to the increase in administrative and legal requirements. Whilst these are, in part, necessary when working with young people, the hassle is so great that people do question if it is worth it. 

Having gone through this with am AmDram groups, the extra work was a) stuff we should have been doing anyway (but didn't, because previous committees decided that the law didn't apply to them) and b) mostly one off tasks like writing policies and getting lots of people DBS checked. After that it was just a steady trickle of form filling. Like a of of these things it was going to be a complete disaster and unworkable, until you actually started on it. Having a couple of former members in the paper with child porn convictions also helped to silence doubters....

 

 

[ELTEL]

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Terry, thanks for the invite but had you read my earlier post, would would have seen that I am going to Scaleforum at High Wycombe.

 

Whilst the Stafford show has some excellent layouts of interest, as a modeller/maker of P4 pre-group models the trade at your show has very little of interest to me. On the other hand, shows like Scaleforum and expoEM does attract those traders whose products I buy. As is often the case, while it is possible to buy from online, it is good to meet and support them at a show.

 

It is good that the weekend will be free from rail strikes for travel to Stafford. However, from Felixstowe it is a 10 - 1/2 hour round trip by rail. By car  it is about 6 -1/2 hours round trip, making for a rather longer day than I like to contemplate at my age.

 

Jol

 

1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Terry, thanks for the invite but had you read my earlier post, would would have seen that I am going to Scaleforum at High Wycombe.

 

Whilst the Stafford show has some excellent layouts of interest, as a modeller/maker of P4 pre-group models the trade at your show has very little of interest to me. On the other hand, shows like Scaleforum and expoEM does attract those traders whose products I buy. As is often the case, while it is possible to buy from online, it is good to meet and support them at a show.

 

It is good that the weekend will be free from rail strikes for travel to Stafford. However, from Felixstowe it is a 10 - 1/2 hour round trip by rail. By car  it is about 6 -1/2 hours round trip, making for a rather longer day than I like to contemplate at my age.

 

Jol

Yes a bit of trip, mind you I did Stafford to Glasgow and back in a day for Model Rail Scotland 

However a single train journey each way and less than £40 return is a bit easier than your trip would be.

 

If you go to Warley in November I will be there with my layout Camel Quay.

Come and say hello

Terry 

[Barry O]

Our first show at Leedswas in 1947.we have missed a small number since then (including this year as our venue excellent though it is) is busy rebuildingthe show area toilet block..

 

We have continued to deliver our show..in fact we have now got setting it up, stewarding it and taking it down to a fine art.

 

Volunteer numbers have ris3nand fallen over the years but we deliver what is achievable. We could put on a larger show (The Grammar School at Leeds has another Hall we could use)  but..what if any financial advantage would it give us? What additional financial and volunteer resource would be required.wouldwe get more visitors?

 

When Warley to the NECa smallgroupof nonClub members were asked  if it was a good idea to do this show. Only concerns raised was the need to protect the Club financially. This was organised very well by so e ofthe organising team and the I pact has been enormous.

 

Some people have been jealous of the success..commercial I terest would love to grab it.. but without a very large

Volunteer support group it would not be the  success it has been over the years.

 

Problem I see is that Tempus Fugit..  this year I will have attended every Warley NEC show plus a few of its predecessor at the Harry Mitchell Centre. I don't see volunteers with the required knowledge and skills (with some noticable exceptions) stepping upto the plate.

 

Baz

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pacific231G]

On 18/09/2023 at 08:33, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

That quote reminded me of a similar thing back in the earl 1980's when I was exhibiting what I think was unique back then - an American O gauge layout - Wyandotte Transfer.

 

 

Once we had set up and before the public were admitted, I went out into the gangway just to see how the layout looked. At this point the barrier team arrived and before they started to assemble our barrier the team leader looked my layout up and down and said, in a strong Welsh accent, "There's some people who like this sort of thing, I suppose."

 

I must admit that m view is almost the exact opposite - almost any foreign layout is usually more interesting to me than the average British one. 

 

Why? Because I've been going to exhibitions for about 60 years and I've seen just about ever conceivable 'take' on British model railways. Whereas, a good layout of a country, about which I know little, is educational, interesting and thought-provoking.

A good memory Paul. I can't remember where I saw it- it may have been the MRC show- but Wyandotte Transfer directly inspired my own first "serious" layout which was an H0 N.American switching/shortline terminus. I thought though that it was earlier than the 1980s but it certainly led to many visits to Victors to buy boxcars etc. 

We've had the same reaction at Ally Pally a few times when the "continental" layouts and society stands tended to be grouped together and one often heard visitors saying "Oh it's all foreign here" before walking away.

[melmerby]

On 18/09/2023 at 21:43, Not Jeremy said:

That  said, I suspect that there might have been too many shows “pre Plague”

Redditch MRC have decided to move to March rather than stay in September because it is becoming crowded around that time of year.🙂

[Jol Wilkinson]

16 hours ago, ELTEL said:

 

Yes a bit of trip, mind you I did Stafford to Glasgow and back in a day for Model Rail Scotland 

However a single train journey each way and less than £40 return is a bit easier than your trip would be.

 

If you go to Warley in November I will be there with my layout Camel Quay.

Come and say hello

Terry 

 

Thanks for the invite Terry. I hadn't been to Warley for some years, after John Redrup of London Road Models ( who I help out at some shows) stopped going when it became unviable for a small specialist trader. In 2016 I was invited to take my London Road layout as part of the Scalefour Society 40th Anniversary presentation, but haven't been since.

 

Like Stafford it has become a bit of a long haul from the far east of Suffolk for one day, unless I can fit it in with some other activity such as visiting/staying with  friends who live locally. 

 

Jol

 

London Road during set up at Warley 2016.

 

 

 

[Andy Hayter]

I fully appreciate your issues @Jol Wilkinson.  I find myself in an even worse situation regarding visiting a UK show.  Driving is really out of scope, so I have to find a flight to somewhere near the exhibition - and that currently means a two flight journey in each direction except for London, or a very expensive car hire (since the Loco flights all arrive in airports that are not close to the location - almost any location in fact).  With that constraint it generally means a  3 day visit.  Out and back in a day is just impossible.  Arrival on day one is often too late to visit that day and the need to get back to the airport in good time for the first leg of the return would mean leaving after a very short time at the exhibition.  It then adds 2 days hotel to the cost of the journey.