LMS 10000

[50025]

Does anybody know what the deal is with  the LMS 10000? I missed out the Tails exclusive LMS livery. Do we know if there are any plans to make these available generally?

[jonnyuk]

doubt it, i owned one and to be honest was disappointed, not a great runner, detail on the body is poor by today's standards, it really needs a refresh and i can't see enough people wanting one to justify that. released at about £150 and it might sell in its current guise, 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Hattons/Dapol and Rails/Bachmann flooded the market between them in 2010, H/D definitely didn't release all the originally announced versions, and same may be true of R/B. I get to play occasionally with both, Dap's 10000 and Bach's 10001 versions, owned by a friend, and there's really nothing to choose between them; still run and pull well, and unmistakably look like the subjects.

 

I doubt that another entrant will emerge any time soon, with several of the numerous BR D+E traction units still to get 'latest all singing and dancing' models.  Timescale check: Hornby are about to duplicate the wondrous Deltic Prototype, NRM/Bachmann release of Jan 2008: which sold out and has continued selling: so that's 15+ years gap for a model of proven good sales potential.

 

Realistically if you want one now, it's s/h: but at least there are two options worth consideration. If trying a search include 'twins' with LMS 10000/1.

[E100]

I would imagine a new model would only make sense when the new build one is completed.

[Edge]

I can vaguely see a possibility of a premium Hornby Dublo version if DP1 turns out to be a success, but that’s a shot in the dark from me tbh rather than any actual knowledge 

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Hattons/Dapol and Rails/Bachmann flooded the market between them in 2010, H/D definitely didn't release all the originally announced versions, and same may be true of R/B. I get to play occasionally with both, Dap's 10000 and Bach's 10001 versions, owned by a friend, and there's really nothing to choose between them; still run and pull well, and unmistakably look like the subjects.

 

I doubt that another entrant will emerge any time soon, with several of the numerous BR D+E traction units still to get 'latest all singing and dancing' models.  Timescale check: Hornby are about to duplicate the wondrous Deltic Prototype, NRM/Bachmann release of Jan 2008: which sold out and has continued selling: so that's 15+ years gap for a model of proven good sales potential.

 

Realistically if you want one now, it's s/h: but at least there are two options worth consideration. If trying a search include 'twins' with LMS 10000/1.

There were actually three. Before the Bachmann  “twins “,Ajin of Korea did them.Forget the name they were marketed under here.A pretty solid FMJ one too. If you can find one now

[No Decorum]

2 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

There were actually three. Before the Bachmann  “twins “,Ajin of Korea did them.Forget the name they were marketed under here.A pretty solid FMJ one too. If you can find one now

FiaTrains? Very expensive. I have both the Dapol version and s few Bachmann ones. For what it’s worth, I think the Bachmann version is superior. The bogies are much better modelled for a start. The Dapol ones have brake blocks moulded as part of the bogie frame and rather obviously out of line with the wheels; also some brake blocks aren’t modelled at all. The LMS lettering and numbers are etched and glued on but the tags haven’t been filed off. If they had been, they would probably have looked a bit better than the Bachmann, which are moulded on and painted. The Bachmann ones are good runners and powerful but I would concede that the Dapol is heavier and more powerful.

[Ian Hargrave]

Just now, No Decorum said:

FiaTrains? Very expensive. I have both the Dapol version and s few Bachmann ones. For what it’s worth, I think the Bachmann version is superior. The bogies are much better modelled for a start. The Dapol ones have brake blocks moulded as part of the bogie frame and rather obviously out of line with the wheels; also some brake blocks aren’t modelled at all. The LMS lettering and numbers are etched and glued on but the tags haven’t been filed off. If they had been, they would probably have looked a bit better than the Bachmann, which are moulded on and painted. The Bachmann ones are good runners and powerful but I would concede that the Dapol is heavier and more powerful.

 

That’s the name. Thanks. Yes of course expensive as you’d expect from Ajin.Amazing performance though and beautifully crafted.  The Dapol version I think rides far too high due to body clearances. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

21 minutes ago, E100 said:

I would imagine a new model would only make sense when the new build one is completed.

Had no idea this was underway. That likely will be the trigger for a new model.

 

16 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

There were actually three. Before the Bachmann  “twins “,Ajin of Korea did them.Forget the name they were marketed under here.A pretty solid FMJ one too

Still hoping for one of the standard  'Antiques Roadshow' claims to come my way: 'Saw it in a skip', 'Paid £10 for it in a charity shop', 'Left it in the will of an old chap I did shopping for'.

 

The production run was very small, couple of hundred in LMS black?

[cctransuk]

17 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

That’s the name. Thanks. Yes of course expensive as you’d expect from Ajin.Amazing performance though and beautifully crafted.  The Dapol version I think rides far too high due to body clearances. 

 

From my recollections, the FIA ones wouldn't go round bends, and were the subject of published modifications in order to achieve this rather important function!

 

CJI.

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Had no idea this was underway.

 

If you believe that a cut-down Class 37 body plus a Class 58 engine equals 10002!

 

CJI.

[Ian Hargrave]

52 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Had no idea this was underway. That likely will be the trigger for a new model.

 

Still hoping for one of the standard  'Antiques Roadshow' claims to come my way: 'Saw it in a skip', 'Paid £10 for it in a charity shop', 'Left it in the will of an old chap I did shopping for'.

 

The production run was very small, couple of hundred in LMS black?

Plus the one with the BR e/c lion

[Ian Hargrave]

57 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

From my recollections, the FIA ones wouldn't go round bends, and were the subject of published modifications in order to achieve this rather important function!

 

CJI.

That’s right. I had 10001 of the modified lot fortunately .

[Ian Hargrave]

It’s resurrection is currently being engineered at the Wirksworth end of the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway in Derbyshire .

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

If you believe that a cut-down Class 37 body plus a Class 58 engine equals 10002!

 

CJI.

Isn't it the Class 58 frame and an EE engine with class 77 bogies

 

The cutdown class 37 on class 20 bogies is a Baby Deltic.

[50025]

Cheers all for replies. I’ll keep a cheeky eye out for a second hand one😉

[GraemeWatson]

So, I got the publicly released Early Crest BR Black pair.

 

Prior to this, the two twins were available in one, non-matching livery, each.

 

I'm sure it was during part of lockdown?

I remember having a great difficulty trying to find one of the two, because my usual local model shops hadn't been given their full allocation.

 

Because of this, one of them seemed substantially harder to find, and certain shops, aware of this, raised the price significantly above RRP, which I had to pay, to complete the pair. Fair enough.

That being said, one of them had functionally unusual lights, a problem it has, to this day.

[Covkid]

On 07/09/2023 at 12:28, cctransuk said:

If you believe that a cut-down Class 37 body plus a Class 58 engine equals 10002!

CJI.

 

On 07/09/2023 at 13:29, Ian Hargrave said:

It’s resurrection is currently being engineered at the Wirksworth end of the Ecclesbourne Valley Railway in Derbyshire .

 

On 07/09/2023 at 13:56, woodenhead said:

Isn't it the Class 58 frame and an EE engine with class 77 bogies

 

The cutdown class 37 on class 20 bogies is a Baby Deltic.

 

From what I understand the new Ivatt replica is a class 58 mainframe with most stuff gas axed off. The bogies are ex EM2 electric locos, modified. The English Electric power unit is a 16cyl SVT unit, very similar to the class 40 and similar engines, which were 4 cyl larger than the 12 pot class 37 engine, and not intercooled like the class 37 engine was. 

 

I believe the class 58 brake frame and electrical frome are being refurbished to form the basis of the Ivatt internals, and wouldn't be surprised if a class 56 or class 58 generator is to be married to the 16SVT. 

 

Another modernism is going to be the locomotive braking system which really needs to be more controllable that the vacuum system fitted by Ivatt.  Owners of the Bachmann model will note the two vacuum cylinders mounted diagonally under the loco presumably actuating pullrods onto the locomotive bogies - steam style.  I think air brakes controlled from brake cylinders mounted on the bogie frames would be considerably safer and more beneficial. 

 

So yes, before the bodyshell is formed and assembled, the locomotive will be subtly different but hopefully will be the best of both worlds. I however have no doubt a locomotive of rugged beauty will be crafted, and will sound absolutely  delightful, and so much like it's forebears. 

[cctransuk]

On 07/09/2023 at 13:56, woodenhead said:

Isn't it the Class 58 frame and an EE engine with class 77 bogies

 

The cutdown class 37 on class 20 bogies is a Baby Deltic.

 

Quite so - sorry for the misinformation.

 

CJI.

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, Covkid said:

So yes, before the bodyshell is formed and assembled, the locomotive will be subtly different but hopefully will be the best of both worlds. I however have no doubt a locomotive of rugged beauty will be crafted, and will sound absolutely  delightful, and so much like it's forebears. 

Anyone fancy taking a class 40 and ruggedly rebuilding it as one of the Bulleid 10xxx prototypes.

[jjb1970]

The Bachmann model is excellent and a great performer. Both the Dapol and Bachmann models offer great performance and capture the look of the real thing nicely. Either is well worth getting if you see them advertised but I have a preference for the Bachmann model.

 

That said, my favourite is the model made for FIA by Ajin. The model is beautifully finished and has a certain presence. That said, those familiar with Asian brass will know they come with challenges and if you want a layout model I would recommend Bachmann or Dapol. If you keep an eye open the FIA/Ajin models appear on EBay and with dealers.

[No Decorum]

15 hours ago, GraemeWatson said:

 

That being said, one of them had functionally unusual lights, a problem it has, to this day.

 

I don’t know if this is what you mean but the lights on my Bachmann models are one of its strong points, in my opinion. The locos were built before BR settled on the folding disc idea. The headcode lights can be switched between express passenger and express goods (all XP stock), two of the most useful codes. They are relatively dim with a yellowish cast, more like the electric bulbs of their day than the “searchlights” we often see on models. I don’t recall any other diesel having a simiar setup. Naturally, someone will be along to tell us that oil lamps were more usual.

[GraemeWatson]

6 hours ago, No Decorum said:

I don’t know if this is what you mean but the lights on my Bachmann models are one of its strong points, in my opinion. The locos were built before BR settled on the folding disc idea. The headcode lights can be switched between express passenger and express goods (all XP stock), two of the most useful codes. They are relatively dim with a yellowish cast, more like the electric bulbs of their day than the “searchlights” we often see on models. I don’t recall any other diesel having a simiar setup. Naturally, someone will be along to tell us that oil lamps were more usual.

It isn't.

Basically, the white lights never come on, only the red. The other loco in the pair, works fine.

[d46037]

On 17/09/2023 at 06:20, jjb1970 said:

The Bachmann model is excellent and a great performer. Both the Dapol and Bachmann models offer great performance and capture the look of the real thing nicely. Either is well worth getting if you see them advertised but I have a preference for the Bachmann model.

 

That said, my favourite is the model made for FIA by Ajin. The model is beautifully finished and has a certain presence. That said, those familiar with Asian brass will know they come with challenges and if you want a layout model I would recommend Bachmann or Dapol. If you keep an eye open the FIA/Ajin models appear on EBay and with dealers.

Would agree that Ajin/FIA locomotives look great ,but unfortunately as built have an inability to traverse even moderate curves and points (Peco medium radius). I had intended fitting mine with ultrascale wheels but subsequently managed to obtain both Dapol and Bachmann examples all of which are fine runners. The Ajin pair currently are only display queens.

[zr2498]

On 07/09/2023 at 11:51, Ian Hargrave said:

There were actually three. Before the Bachmann  “twins “,Ajin of Korea did them.Forget the name they were marketed under here.A pretty solid FMJ one too. If you can find one now

FIA trains 10000 - some details on curve handling:

 

FIA advised curves no less than 31 inch radius.

An artlicle on theses trains was included in Model Railway Journal No.182.