How many nameplates survive?

[Andy Kirkham]

I was in the Kidderminster Railway Museum the other day, looking at the loco nameplates, and the question struck me: how many nameplates were scrapped and how many survive?

 

Presumably in pre-grouping days and perhaps in pre-nationalisation days, most nameplates were scrapped. But considering the locomotives that were still in service in, say, 1960: what proportion of those hundreds of Hall, Grange and Castle plates still survive?

Edited October 11, 2023 by Andy Kirkham

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Andy Kirkham said:

I was in the Kidderminster Railway Museum the other day, looking at the loco nameplates, and the question struck me: how many nameplates were scrapped and how many survive?

 

Presumably in pre-grouping days and perhaps in pre-nationalisation days, most nameplates were scrapped. But considering the locomotives that were still in service in, say, 1960: what proportion of those hundreds of Hall, Grange and Castle plates still survive?

 

Virtually all of them I would guess.

 

The railway companies were selling them off well before the Big Four days. Seen quite a few of the pre BR era ones in private collections. Things like GWR Bulldogs and Atbaras. The LNWR type are also pretty common.

 

 

Jason

[Matt37268]

Depends on how you judge it though?  A certain Merchant Navy has a set of plates from its pre preservation career and it’s then it’s post preservation career, I know of a certain mainline certified Class 50 that is possibly on its 8th set? The original patterns for the castings have been used several times, the locomotive is still in service, so what would qualify as original? 

[Rugd1022]

7 minutes ago, Matt37268 said:

Depends on how you judge it though?  A certain Merchant Navy has a set of plates from its pre preservation career and it’s then it’s post preservation career, I know of a certain mainline certified Class 50 that is possibly on its 8th set? The original patterns for the castings have been used several times, the locomotive is still in service, so what would qualify as original? 

 

A certain number of Westerns also had more than one name or number plate whilst in BR service, usually due to collision damage. Unlike most other locos, their plates were made of several parts, not cast in one go, so they were more susceptible to damage. As far as I know, the seven surviving Westerns all carry replica plates at the moment, made in exactly the same way as the real plates.

 

My other half's late dad once told me of a visit to Swindon Works not long after the Kings were withdrawn where he came across a large stack of cab side numberplates leaning against a wall inside A-Shop, he asked a nearby fitter about them who told him they were for sale at £15 each.

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

... a nearby fitter ... told him they were for sale at £15 each.

... and I guess fifteen quid was out of his reach at the time ! ☹️

[kevinlms]

You'll probably never get a true count of 'genuine' nameplates, because some would be rather warm to touch!

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

A certain number of Westerns also had more than one name or number plate whilst in BR service, usually due to collision damage. Unlike most other locos, their plates were made of several parts, not cast in one go, so they were more susceptible to damage. As far as I know, the seven surviving Westerns all carry replica plates at the moment, made in exactly the same way as the real plates.

 

My other half's late dad once told me of a visit to Swindon Works not long after the Kings were withdrawn where he came across a large stack of cab side numberplates leaning against a wall inside A-Shop, he asked a nearby fitter about them who told him they were for sale at £15 each.

 

They weren't that much more in Collectors Corner. I think many people have even forgotten about that or didn't know it existed!

 

Used to be able to buy totems for a couple of quid. There was a whole wooden box of shedcode plates.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/40172673@N03/49215114656

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/72123072@N04/8459953044

 

Even the Collectors Corner name is collectable!

 

https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/british-railways-sign-lmr-collectors-corner-painte-2022jul-0687.html

 

 

For clarity, I mean genuine railwayana, not copies.

 

 

Jason

[AMJ]

Many that have significance will exist at the appropriate location.  I'm aware of many football clubs having plates off of LNER locos.  Similar for halls, castles etc.

 

There are a lot of private individuals with many plates.  I am aware of one gent who died who's plates will be going to an auction house so that the benefactors then get their fair share of the assets.

[The Border Reiver]

I saw a few D49s in Darlington North Road scrapyard in the early 1960s still with their nameplates on...

Edited October 11, 2023 by The Border Reiver
typo

[Steamport Southport]

Just now, The Border Reiver said:

I saw a few D49s in Darlington North Road scrapyard in thw early 1960s still with their nameplates on...

 

They would have been reclaimed later on. None of them had them when sold to private scrapyards, even the shedcodes were removed.

 

Most are known to exist. There are genuine experts on railwayana who will have all the details.

 

Try the specialist auction houses, it's how they make a living. I think there is even a list of all the station totems. Someone even wrote a book about them.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Railways-Station-Totems-Complete/dp/1800351410

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green too]

44 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

... I think many people have even forgotten about that or didn't know it existed! ...

How could anyone forget about Collector's Corner - the Auntie Wainwright's of the railway world ! ........... maybe Auntie Wainwright's was modelled on it ?

The building was luxury flats last time I was in that area - but it's since gone to make way for more luxury flats in lieu of a full HS2 terminal.

[ess1uk]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

They weren't that much more in Collectors Corner. I think many people have even forgotten about that or didn't know it existed!

 

Used to be able to buy totems for a couple of quid. There was a whole wooden box of shedcode plates.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/40172673@N03/49215114656

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/72123072@N04/8459953044

 

Even the Collectors Corner name is collectable!

 

https://www.gwra.co.uk/auctions/british-railways-sign-lmr-collectors-corner-painte-2022jul-0687.html

 

 

For clarity, I mean genuine railwayana, not copies.

 

 

Jason

I got a couple of name plates from collectors corner and they cost a lot more than £15!

[Steamport Southport]

22 hours ago, ess1uk said:

I got a couple of name plates from collectors corner and they cost a lot more than £15!

 

Prices started to rocket when there became a market for them beyond what was seen as scrap prices.

 

It did get strange in the 1980s and 1990s when people started spending more for a nameplate than what it would have cost to buy an engine!

 

Personally I never got into the collection lark apart from a few wagon plates and a couple of shedcode plates which are somewhere in the loft.

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green too]

New thread added for "Nameplate Photos" ........ over to you ..........................

[The Stationmaster]

On 11/10/2023 at 14:17, Wickham Green too said:

... and I guess fifteen quid was out of his reach at the time ! ☹️

It was also a substantial increase as that had originally been Swindon's c.1960 price for nameplates - that went up to £25.  Casr iron cabside numberplates were sold at iron scrap price so i think mine was less than £1 - it cost more than  that to have sent 'delivered' (by freight train) the c.50 miles from Swindon

 

I also understand that the price to BR staff for name and numberplates (or maybe it was just to those who worked ay Swindon?) was much less than the amount the public were charged.  No doubt it was the sort of arrangement we all applied where there was an official price for, say, a timber sleeper but we only charged a few bob for 'firewood'.    Although that one was sort of cracked down on when 'they' introduced a charge particularly for 'sleepers sold as firewood' (although very few were sold like that down in the part of Wiltshire/Somerset where I worked, we simply sold firewood.

[MJI]

Hanbury hall plates are in the cafe

[Steamport Southport]

One of the oddest places I found a GWR nameplate was in the Sheffield Tap!

 

Not my photo and can't find credit.

 

 

Jason

 

[Welchester]

On 13/10/2023 at 16:41, The Stationmaster said:

II also understand that the price to BR staff for name and numberplates (or maybe it was just to those who worked ay Swindon?) was much less than the amount the public were charged.  No doubt it was the sort of arrangement we all applied where there was an official price for, say, a timber sleeper but we only charged a few bob for 'firewood'.    Although that one was sort of cracked down on when 'they' introduced a charge particularly for 'sleepers sold as firewood' (although very few were sold like that down in the part of Wiltshire/Somerset where I worked, we simply sold firewood.

 

Just before my father retired from BR in 1980, he acquired an enormous quantity of 'firewood'. It filled three sides of our garage to roof height and was neatly cut into 12" blocks. I think he considered it would last him through retirement, which it did.

[adb968008]

On 11/10/2023 at 11:25, Matt37268 said:

Depends on how you judge it though?  A certain Merchant Navy has a set of plates from its pre preservation career and it’s then it’s post preservation career, I know of a certain mainline certified Class 50 that is possibly on its 8th set? The original patterns for the castings have been used several times, the locomotive is still in service, so what would qualify as original? 

Probably none of them from a value / trust perspective.

Provenance is a big thing in value.

[adb968008]

On 11/10/2023 at 14:38, Steamport Southport said:

 

They would have been reclaimed later on. None of them had them when sold to private scrapyards, even the shedcodes were removed.

 

Most are known to exist. There are genuine experts on railwayana who will have all the details.

 

Try the specialist auction houses, it's how they make a living. I think there is even a list of all the station totems. Someone even wrote a book about them.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Railways-Station-Totems-Complete/dp/1800351410

 

 

Jason

Even auction houses have errors.

 

Ive a station totem thats only appeared at Auction twice, the first time it records as “unsold”… I bought it via the auction but from when I lived in the US… so it was still an auction sale, but they must have considered exported as unsold.

 

 

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

One of the oddest places I found a GWR nameplate was in the Sheffield Tap!

 

Not my photo and can't find credit.

 

 

Jason

 

Paddington station “Mad Bishop and Bear “ pub has several items, including a Warship nameplate.

 

Just outside Euston station was a pub with dozens of Totems on the wall.. but I suspect its been demolished and all binned during the HS2 works.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by adb968008

[adb968008]

Its a funny thing though, for some reason Black and White station signs never took off from BR days… I actually collect a few of those, not bad considering Ive acquired them in a range between free and £20 a piece.

Edited October 17, 2023 by adb968008

[brushman47544]

I went to Collectors' Corner hoping to buy a Western nameplate but sadly they were far too expensive for teenage me. I don't think anything there was ever cheap, but not overpriced either.

[pH]

I heard someone claim he had ‘reserved’ a nameplate off each of Corkerhill’s 11 Jubilees. Given who this person was, I thought (and still do) that this was possible. But was this something that could be done formally, or would it have been an informal arrangement with someone at the shed? Incidentally, the quoted price was 7 GBP per plate - and one of them was the very rare two-line name.

In 1962, the remaining sheds in 68 district (68A had been renumbered to 12A in 1958) were renumbered into 66 or 67 district. At that time, in St Rollox shed I saw, literally, a pile of 68 district shed plates. I presumed they were taken off engines as they passed through on the way to the Works. I had my satchel with me ….   No, I didn’t pick up one of each! I do have a 68B plate, but I got that many years later, and it cost much more than free.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by pH

[The Stationmaster]

I have a shedplate - and it was given to me by one of the workers  in the iron foundry as i passed through on the Wednesday afternoon visit.  He saw my interest in the moulding process and asked if I would like one - so I duly said that I would (it was cold and not freshly cast!).

 

 I often wonder how much visitors might have lifted out of C Shop at Swindon.  I remember seeing on a Sunday visit a couple of lads trying to get cabside numberplates into duffle bags.  And that was in the days when you buy a cast iron  one for almost nothing and even brass ones only cost a few £s.  C Shop was an incredible gold mine of all sorts of unexpected things as all kinds of stuff went there for scrapping and sorting ready to go into the works to be melted so there weren't just engines being dismantled but things like signal levers and cast iron signs.

 

My Taff vVle backlit station name came from demolition contractors who were demolishing a Taff Vale building on my then patch.  Y';d asked them to keep one for me if they got one out in one piece - they did.  I also had a totem from them which is also treasured as all the references and list of totems record none surviving from that station and none have ever come up at auction.