Avanti services deteriorate again

[Phatbob]

5 hours ago, darrel said:

 They lost cross country they lost the west coast franchise even though they were the best bid.

 

IIRC Virgin lost XC in 2008 because Arriva put in a better bid.  Also, IIRC Virgin were excluded from the second re-letting of the WCML franchise because they would not honour the pension requirements in the new contract.

[Rivercider]

The last part of my railway career was in traincrew rostering (for a freight company), and although I

retired in 2007 I suspect that similar problems remain. Throughout the eight years I was in rosters (1999-2007)

I do not think there was one week where we were not asking for drivers to work rest days, or move start times.

Sure some weeks were better than others, with only a few odd turns to cover here or there, but quite often

at busy times if a driver on a rest week put his hand up to work I could easily find him a full week of work,

 

cheers 

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Phatbob said:

IIRC Virgin lost XC in 2008 because Arriva put in a better bid.  Also, IIRC Virgin were excluded from the second re-letting of the WCML franchise because they would not honour the pension requirements in the new contract.

The beardy one did nothing but whinge since he started his railway company

He new exactly what they were getting when they originally got west coast and then constantly complained about how the stock they inherited was rubbish.

The public liked his entrepreneurialism and general demeanour but I'm not sure the service ever matched up to all the Virgin hype.

[33C]

1 hour ago, Rivercider said:

traincrew rostering

Our old roster clerk was a genius, understood the job inside out and was a pleasure to work with.

Unfortunately, he was getting put upon from above and decided to come over to the driving grade to get away from the B/S.

The replacement was a poor substitute, so much so, they asked our old R/C to come back and help out,

O/T rate.

I think it took about 3 years of shadowing the replacement before all parties were happy! He came back driving for a while and then retired. Well deserved!

[Phatbob]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

but I'm not sure the service ever matched up to all the Virgin hype.

It didn't.  A bunch of airline managers trying to run a railways led to all kinds of poor decisions being made from day one.  By example, the abysmal Client Specification for the rolling stock still leaves their sucessors with problems.  Not least XC with four coach Voyagers with only three coaches worth of seats and no luggage space. :-(

[jjb1970]

There are two aphorisms which are quite relevant in the case of TOCs and DafT - whoever pays the piper calls the tune, and you don't bite the hand that feeds. 

 

I suspect those running the TOCs would have quite splendid opinions of the sorry mess and I'd be amazed if they were particularly complimentary about DfT, but they know who they have to keep sweet. 

[jjb1970]

I have never particularly liked Richard Branson. He has a genius for self-promotion and is clearly an astute business person (he has a history of licensing the Virgin image, if it goes well he gets the credit and if it goes wrong someone else loses) but I find his tendency to throw mud and blame others for stuff tiring. That said I always had good experiences on Virgin trains and it was an awful lot better than what followed.  I don't think he had much to do with it anyway, Stagecoach was the majority partner and the business had its own leadership team. I have to say as well that although Virgin Atlantic are not an airline I have used that much, whenever I have used them they have been very good.

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Rivercider said:

The last part of my railway career was in traincrew rostering (for a freight company), and although I

retired in 2007 I suspect that similar problems remain. Throughout the eight years I was in rosters (1999-2007)

I do not think there was one week where we were not asking for drivers to work rest days, or move start times.

Sure some weeks were better than others, with only a few odd turns to cover here or there, but quite often

at busy times if a driver on a rest week put his hand up to work I could easily find him a full week of work,

 

cheers 

Moving booking on times (within the limits set by National Agreements in BR days) has been art of foorplate staff rostering for well over a century.  In fact the agreements were made in order to limit just how far men on some companies were being moved.  As it happens you can't really do the job, especially on freight work, without it

 

For many years ASLE&F policy was strictly against Rest Day working - in fact if a depot needed to go to that extreme the local branch had to get permission from the ASLEF Executive to take part in it.   The big change came in privatisation where something which had been limited to a few depots in BR days became part of deal being made by inexperienced 'hot shot' 'managers' to impress their unknowing betters by cutting out Spare Turns and bringing in a pay deal which included voluntary Rest Day Working (RDW).  The union got far cleverer than the Managers (not difficult in most cases) over such deals as they negotiated not only a pay increase but made sure the RDW was voluntary and in some cases even secured a change to rostering Sunday turns to make them voluntary as well.  Incredibly to any seasoned train crew manager, traincrew staff establishment expert, or a competent roster clerks, various idiot 'hot shot managers' accepted these ideas and made Sundays voluntary - as well as from having to rely on voluntary RDW.

 

As Drivers' salaries increased (in a market which increasingly favoured whatever the union were asking at every pay negotiation) the attraction of working a voluntary. Sunday decreased, as did the attraction of RDW.  Add some franchisees who deliberately managed down Driver numbers by talking advantage of RDW etc and you get to where we are today.  Virgin West Coast - albeit only a brand in terms of who called the shots but he still took the money - deliberately failed to fill Driver vacancies as RDW was cheaper than paying a new member of staff.  Quite what they saved is debatable as the Wrest Coadst Section of the former BR pension fund has a massive hole in it thanks to the bearded one and his mates not making the additional contributions it needed too restore its viability - but at least that meant they were banned from bidding when their franchise expired

 

I get the impression that the halfwits at DafT - who probably understand less abut rostering than our cats - are also keen on RDW to keep down numbers.  But they aren't the ones who will be up in front of the man or woman wearing the white wig when something leads, rightly, to a prosecution.  And with a history of that sort of thing behind him when 'managing' traincrew it should not come as surprise that someone on a management side in recent negotiations with unions is not trusted by them (despite once being a Guard).

[phil-b259]

Avanti West Coast described taxpayer funding as ‘free money’'  😠

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/avanti-west-coast-described-taxpayer-funding-as-free-money/ar-AA1n4w2R?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=9d73cdc467da4b289cc45af6c05639d8&ei=35

[Darius43]

4 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Avanti West Coast described taxpayer funding as ‘free money’'  😠

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/avanti-west-coast-described-taxpayer-funding-as-free-money/ar-AA1n4w2R?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=9d73cdc467da4b289cc45af6c05639d8&ei=35

Puts them in the same cess pit as some Ministers and their donor friends…

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Wheatley]

This was about the Servqual regime (empty bins, correct posters, clean trains etc), not operations. I haven't seen the slides and I'm certainly not an apologist for Avanti, but having had to sit through a few tedious presentations from corporate branding/marketing types about similar subjects which are of no interest whatsoever to the operating or any other department, I suspect this was an ill-judged attempt to get across that Servqual really isn't difficult, and it's a battle that's yours to lose rather than one which requires something terribly complex to win. "Read contract - work to contract - perform to contract - get paid". 

 

Badly worded and crass certainly. Evidence of corporate p*** taking and taxpayer eye poking ? I doubt it. 

[The Stationmaster]

12 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Avanti West Coast described taxpayer funding as ‘free money’'  😠

 

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/avanti-west-coast-described-taxpayer-funding-as-free-money/ar-AA1n4w2R?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=9d73cdc467da4b289cc45af6c05639d8&ei=35

Link is dead.

[woodenhead]

@The Stationmaster

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67997916

[Fair Oak Junction]

Big companies having utter contempt for everyone around them? I'm shocked! 🤣

[1E BoY]

On 22/12/2023 at 08:20, jjb1970 said:

Stagecoach was the majority partner and the business had its own leadership team.

 

Virgin Trains ownership = Virgin Group 51% - Stagecoach 49%

Edited January 17 by 1E BoY
Virgin Trains added for clarity

[The Stationmaster]

20 hours ago, 1E BoY said:

 

Virgin Trains ownership = Virgin Group 51% - Stagecoach 49%

Fees for the use of the Virgin brand paid separately to a company based 'somewhere offshore' - standardprocedure with any concern using teh Virgin brand.  Oh and the relevant section of the pension fund not kept in surplus but with an ever growing level of deficit - which put the kybosh on Virgin being allowed to bif d for anything the next time a franchose ca,mme up unless they agreed to pay [roperly into the pension fund - they didn't

[jjb1970]

20 hours ago, 1E BoY said:

 

Virgin Trains ownership = Virgin Group 51% - Stagecoach 49%

 

Dunno how I got that reversed, it was in my head as 51 Stagecoach/49 Virgin.

[Wheatley]

Free Money - having done a bit of digging this is actually the HS2 North London Pothole Fund. 

 

DfT have gone to the TOCs and said "We have £Xm we weren't expecting, if you can spend it on something which a) makes a tangible improvement to the network and b) do it before the end of CP 6 (i.e. this March), it's yours." At the end of CP6 any unspent cash goes back to the Treasury and you have to bid for it all over again to spend it in CP7. 

 

So it is actually free money. 

 

 

[31A]

32 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

Free Money - having done a bit of digging this is actually the HS2 North London Pothole Fund. 

 

DfT have gone to the TOCs and said "We have £Xm we weren't expecting, if you can spend it on something which a) makes a tangible improvement to the network and b) do it before the end of CP 6 (i.e. this March), it's yours." At the end of CP6 any unspent cash goes back to the Treasury and you have to bid for it all over again to spend it in CP7. 

 

So it is actually free money. 

 

 

 

Sounds like "Operation Quickspend" on Network SouthEast!

 

[jjb1970]

This really annoys me, it's the typical government and big organisation approach to clutching at anything to spend money on near the end of the budget period. And in a few weeks they'll probably be arguing over pennies.

[rodent279]

It's a bribe

[Wheatley]

In fairness to the big organisations, being told "Spend money on anything quickly because we're only the government and organisational skills and joined up thinking aren't really our strongpoints ... " is not really a problem of their making.   

[APOLLO]

In the gas industry we were always busy Feb & March with mains diversions / mains renewals prior to road resurfacing etc for various local authorities who had to spend money (or loose it) before the start of the next financial year, usually April.

 

Brit15

[lmsforever]

Glad I dont go to Glasgow for the model show did it every for about fifteen years first with Virgin  then with the current operators  the best journeys were with Virgin and those with its succesor reasonable.The staff at Virgin were brilliant the staff who followed did thier best with a not very good product  ,the food in first class with Virgin was excellent and when they had gone it was down to the minimum standard and also at the end of my journeys only served from Prestoneynes .I think that the offerring now is a very poor quality only one train via Milton Keyneis glad I travelled when Virgin were around.