Popular Post TEAMYAKIMA Posted January 18 Popular Post Share Posted January 18 (edited) I thought this was the best place to announce the end of what some of us like to call 'real' steam - i.e. steam locomotives which just do a boring, every-day job not supporteded by the tourist/nostalgia/enthusiast industry. Needless to say it was in China - Sandaoling opencast coal mine - on January 15th this year. Edited January 18 by TEAMYAKIMA 8 1 9 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Hitting "like" doesn't mean I enjoy this news - as seen reported on other sites. I guess it begs the question as to whether "real steam" includes the operation of fireless steam locomotives in Germany, Austria and Slovenia. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, EddieB said: I guess it begs the question as to whether "real steam" includes the operation of fireless steam locomotives in Germany, Austria and Slovenia. Yes, and TBH I think there may be some steam workings in a coal mine in Bosnia, but I think it's only shunting now. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 18 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18 There is something very different about working steam operating freight trains. I was lucky enough to see Chinese steam in its sunset years in the 90's and even then it tended to be shunting in yards or less well travelled lines as designs such as the ubiquitous DF4 series (like the Chinese 47.....) were everywhere. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Theres still some steam on the indonesian sugar cane 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 18 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18 And what might be regarded as grey area operations. Union Pacific's 844 has never been withdrawn from service, but is not quite 'real' steam despite ticking a lot of the boxes. Steam use on freight services in Germany also ticks a lot of the boxes, as does the weekly timetabled service train in Patagonia, and steam operation on the Snowdon Mountain Railway and the Isle of Man, in that the locos are performing the commercial function for which they are designed and are not 'preserved' in the generally understood sense. Some Swiss, Austrian. and German narrow gauge lines' 'heritage' steam workings might arguably fall into similar categories. Then there's Tornado and Prince of Wales. Semantics perhaps, but the engines are/will be functioning in the commercial activity for which they were/are being built, again several of what I would contend are 'real steam' boxes ticked. Real Steam is one of those terms that we all know the meaning of (or we all know what we individually mean by it at least) but which proves to be surprisingly difficult to pin down definitively! 2 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 The Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania sometimes uses steam to move 'proper' revenue freight over it's line, although it's main operation is as a tourist/heritage outfit. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19 I'm not sure whether the steam operation at Wolsztyn in Poland counts as 'real' or not. Undoubtedly it would have ceased years ago were it not for the efforts of The Wolsztyn Experience, and more recently interested people locally, but it does provide an ordinary passenger train daily, shown in the public timetable as such and open to ordinary fare paying passengers, and it isn't in a tourist area. Currently it's down to one working loco (2-8-2 Pt47 65) and one return trip each weekday afternoon, although they do have plans to return other locos to traffic. 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19 11 hours ago, F-UnitMad said: The Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania sometimes uses steam to move 'proper' revenue freight over it's line, although it's main operation is as a tourist/heritage outfit. To Paradise..a truly apt name for the other end of the Line! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 If you want to go pandantic the ffestiniog is working steam, its still owned by the same company from 1832, its just that a lot of work is done by volunteers so that they no longer need hundreds of employees like before Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 7 minutes ago, sir douglas said: If you want to go pandantic the ffestiniog is working steam, its still owned by the same company from 1832, its just that a lot of work is done by volunteers so that they no longer need hundreds of employees like before To just be pedantic... 2 3 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted January 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19 I'd say that to qualify as a "real steam" service, regular fares should be charged and ordinary tickets be valid. Where premium fares are charged and passengers travel expressly to experience steam, that is not "real steam". 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 6 hours ago, sir douglas said: If you want to go pandantic the ffestiniog is working steam, its still owned by the same company from 1832, its just that a lot of work is done by volunteers so that they no longer need hundreds of employees like before Yes, 'but'... it's not running revenue freight, or providing something like a commuter service; it's undoubtedly a tourist/heritage operation which doesn't count as 'real working steam' as per the OP. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19 Snowdon ...has that been mentioned? It is a Service, it charges fares and serves a purpose. Phil 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 19 Does the RH & DR Still Run their School Trains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said: Snowdon ...has that been mentioned? It is a Service, it charges fares and serves a purpose. Good point - I hadn't considered that 'option'. This only goes to show that the definition of 'real steam' is very subjective. TBH I sort of agree and at the same time disagree with the concept of that being 'real steam;. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 hours ago, F-UnitMad said: Yes, 'but'... it's not running revenue freight, or providing something like a commuter service; it's undoubtedly a tourist/heritage operation which doesn't count as 'real working steam' as per the OP. Ah. But some railways were built entirely for tourists. Surely those are real railways? Snowdon Mountain Railway and the original Welsh Highland for example. The Vale Of Rheidol was still owned by BR until privatisation in 1989 and that was definitely a real railway, it hasn't changed that much since. So is it no longer a "real" railway just because it's changed owners? Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) It's a blurred distinction but I'd see "real steam" as fulfilling a real transport function at normal rates rather than primarily providing entertainment. in other words getting people or goods from a to b rather than the journey between a and b being their main purpose. I doubt if many people use the WHR just because it's a convenient way to travel from Porthmadog to Carnavon. The dead giveaway would be whether they're fulfilling that transport function midweek in winter. I'm not sure what the current status of the Darjeeling Railway is in that regard. Edited January 20 by Pacific231G 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20 On 18/01/2024 at 22:32, F-UnitMad said: The Strasburg Railroad in Pennsylvania sometimes uses steam to move 'proper' revenue freight over it's line, although it's main operation is as a tourist/heritage outfit. The Strasburg considers the tourist trains as a sideline to it's short haul freight business, which was doing so well they opened a new yard at Paradise 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20 What about the Harzerschmalspurbahnen (HSB) in Germany? It's a proper railway line not a heritage line, although popular with tourists. Plenty of steam operation and the timetable is in the DB timetable guide. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20 Plenty of grey area here, but a Chinese opencast coalmine pilot is beyond doubt ‘real steam’. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 20 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 20 5 hours ago, The Johnster said: Plenty of grey area here, but a Chinese opencast coalmine pilot is beyond doubt ‘real steam’. I'd agree, but it doesn't carry Passengers as does Snowdon or Hartz! Discuss. P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir douglas Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said: but it doesn't carry Passengers passengers necessarily dont matter, if its goods/industrial and still doing its job, it should count 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 20 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20 Railways do not just carry passengers (ok, some do, but by the same token some just carry freight as well). We need for the purposes of this discussion to objectively define 'real steam', and attempting to do that will lead to further possibly divisive discussion. We each individually understand what is meant by the term, but your understanding of it will probably be slightly different to mine; it is easy to define the term subjectively but very difficult to define it objectively without going around in self-defeating circles. Discuss. 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 hours ago, Mallard60022 said: I'd agree, but it doesn't carry Passengers as does Snowdon or Hartz! Discuss. P I'd define 'real' passenger steam the same way I'd define any 'real' passenger train, as transport that people use to get from point A to point B, for the purpose of doing something else at point B - working, holiday, visiting somewhere, point B being the end of that journey, rather than riding the train to point B, then riding it back to point A again - a heritage line journey. Of course, this definition still falls down when it comes to Snowdon.... 🙄🤦♂️ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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