Simon60 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I recently saw a comment on this year’s Hornby releases lamenting the absence of up to date Hornby LMS Composites, a feeling I wholeheartedly agree with. Latest LMS offerings are R4803 LMS Period 3 Corridor 1st Class ‘1041’ (2017-20 inclusive) R4804 LMS Period 3 Corridor 3rd Class ‘1745’ (2017-19 inclusive) R4805 LMS Period 3 Corridor Brake 3rd Class ‘5726’ (2017-20 inclusive) Hatton’s database has the date for their tooling as 2005. But obviously no Composites there. The most recent Composites as far as I’m aware are R4130A LMS Composite Coach ‘4000’ (2001-2) R4130B LMS Composite Coach ‘4001’ (2001-3 inclusive) R4130C LMS Composite Coach ‘4020’ (2002-3) R4130D LMS Composite Coach ‘3954’ (2004) In this case, the tooling according to Hattons is 1977. My question is, in the absence of new offerings being planned, just how useful or not are these 1977 (presumably Triang) examples as the basis for an upgrade? Do they represent a particular diagram at all? What changes or additions would improve them or is the body shell completely inaccurate? The thoughts of those with more knowledge than I would be greatly appreciated 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 The problem for Hornby is that the standard LMS Composite was 60' long as opposed to the 57' of the single class coaches so requiring a new underframe. It's a shame as a Brake Composite would be a very useful vehicle as it provided the through coaches all over the system. The later, very good Staniers were all 57' and, as you note, featured an all first, which was not a common design. I think R4130 is a 60' design compressed onto a 57' underframe with origins in Airfix. Dapol's CKD kits (also Airfix) have (or is that now had?) a compo on the correct underframe which was a D1898. Your wish will not be granted even if the Coronation coaches are released in lake, no composites there. Bachmann's porthole stock did feature a 60' brake compo, but that may be too late for you, it's essentially a British Railways product. Alan 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
64F Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 The 1977 casting is not at all accurate. All LMS Period III corridor composites were 60' long, whereas the old Hornby composite scales at (about) 57' so as to share a chassis with the brake third (and has plenty of other problems, but being the wrong length is not fixable). Hornby could very usefully expand their carriage ranges to allow people to run accurate rakes, and the LMS composite is an obvious gap to fill. However it would need to be an all-new casting as other than the bogies and some small parts there would be no commonality with the 2005 models. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted February 6 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6 5 minutes ago, Buhar said: I think R4130 is a 60' design compressed onto a 57' underframe with origins in Airfix. Dapol's CKD kits (also Airfix) have (or is that now had?) a compo on the correct underframe which was a D1898. Alan I dont think the Hornby R4130 owes anything to Airfix, the planned Airfix open 3rd ended up as the rather compromised Replica Railways model - https://rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/171549-renovating-the-replica-railways-ex-lms-open-coach/ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Thanks to Behar and 64F That’s helpful and clear 8 minutes ago, Buhar said: Dapol's CKD kits (also Airfix) have (or is that now had?) a compo on the correct underframe which was a D1898. How much adaptation would this Dapol version need to get to an accurate representation? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Thanks MikeParkin65 The family trees of these models is hard to keep a grip on 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 R4130 is the Hornby 1977 one. Look at the windows. If they are printed on clear plastic then Hornby 1970s (and now part of the Railroad Range). As well as the planned Airfix Third Open there was also a twelve wheel Sleeper announced using the same chassis as the Dining Car. That never appeared. Also worth looking at the Mainline/Bachmann Period Two stock. Whilst earlier types they would be mixed in with the later coaches. Apart from a few prestigious trains such as the Coronation Scot the LMS didn't really go for fixed sets. They would just use them as needed. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Thanks Steamport Southport I’ll look into the Mainline models 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Are the Mainline/Bachmann models of period II correct at 57’? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimwal Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 24 minutes ago, Simon60 said: Are the Mainline/Bachmann models of period II correct at 57’? Yes. They are actually period 1 stock. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Thanks jimwal Yes just spotted that, again on Hattons As an aside, has anyone heard if the Hattons database has been/will be acquired and maintained A huge loss if not 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 7 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7 44 minutes ago, Simon60 said: Are the Mainline/Bachmann models of period II correct at 57’? The Mainline P1 are a bit crude having moulded on roof vents and gangway ends. One also has an error in the width of the right hand end compartment window but I can't remember which. The underframe is also basic and looks better with the dynamo and vacuum cylinder replaced. The Replica and Bachmann ones have individual vents and gangway connections, bit still the same underframe and window error. These are a Brake Composite and All Third that I made with a cut 'n' shut using three Replica bodies. I think that the Airfix, later Mainline then Dapol 60ft version is a better starting point for a P3 Composite. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Thanks jimwal Yes just spotted that, again on Hattons As an aside, has anyone heard if the Hattons database has been/will be acquired and maintained A huge loss if not Thanks to TheSignalEngineer for those recommendations and resources Sounds like I’ve got my work cut out 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 I don't know whether you have found it as it's a bit hidden, but there is a section on LMS Coaches. Unfortunately not being used much and some of the photos will be lost. But there might be something of use in it. https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/forum/144-lms-coaching-stock/ Jason 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted February 7 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7 There is also the art of using rtr shells with Comet sides to make more variety to be considered. I think I've seen the Hornby railroad model used like that and definately the more accurate Airfix/Dapol shape and of course recent Hornby and Bachmann models can be had reasonably cheaply for such purposes second hand. At one point carmine and cream Portholes were down to less than £30 new I recall! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Thanks to all 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 With the glazing and underframe trussing replaced the Airfix CK sits well with the Hornby coaches. This one is a work in progress. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Thanks Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Dapol LMS CK rework My own rework of the Dapol CK. Sadly all the pictures have been lost , so here are some from file Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon60 Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 Those are really helpful Working out the parts list is going to be half the fun 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 The Airfix Staniers came out around the same time as the (now Railroad) Hornby 'Staniers', but in terms of accuracy there was really no competition then. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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