009 micro modeller Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 11 hours ago, DK123GWR said: Which of these is Uxbridge? Good point - though Uxbridge is still I think south of Cockfosters (obviously both it and Heathrow are west). Does anyone know why they had north-south signage on the Cockfosters end of the line, and when the official designation of the line changed to east-west? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 12 hours ago, pH said: If the Overground is extended to Wimbledon (where the Underground already reaches) there’s a ready-made name for that line! https://youtu.be/XWQMMPFtoG4?feature=shared I’ve always wanted this to happen, but only if they put the Underground roundel above the Overground one on the signpost outside the station… 1 hour ago, letterspider said: perhaps this is part of tfl's plan to further discourage our elder population from attempting to use the rail network What plan would that be then? 12 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: Not infallible - it doesn't apply to the circle line! What about clockwise and anti-clockwise? On the Glasgow Subway map they describe the circular routes as ‘inner and outer’ (the same line but going opposite ways) which again doesn’t seem hugely meaningful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, letterspider said: ... perhaps this is part of tfl's plan to further discourage our elder population from attempting to use the rail network by making it impossible to navigate? The elder population probably know much of their way round already and actually know how to read a map without resorting to a little hand-held screen in their pocket ................ I think I'm officially 'elderly' after passing my three score years and ten in December. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 4 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: ... On the Glasgow Subway map they describe the circular routes as ‘inner and outer’ (the same line but going opposite ways) which again doesn’t seem hugely meaningful. London had Inner and Outer Circle lines at one time .......... most of the Inner remains as what we know as the Circle ( though no longer a circle ) and bits of the Outer ended up as 'Overground' - which brings us neatly back on topic ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted February 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19 1 minute ago, 009 micro modeller said: Good point - though Uxbridge is still I think south of Cockfosters (obviously both it and Heathrow are west). Does anyone know why they had north-south signage on the Cockfosters end of the line, and when the official designation of the line changed to east-west? It is a long time since I lived in London, but platform signage didn't used to be connected to any official designations. The Metropolitan line had northbound at places like Baker Street (and Aldgate, if I remember correctly), but Eastbound and Westbound along the top of the Circle and between Uxbridge and Rayner's Lane. 1 minute ago, Wickham Green too said: London had Inner and Outer Circle lines at one time .......... most of the Inner remains as what we know as the Circle ( though no longer a circle ) and bits of the Outer ended up as 'Overground' - which brings us neatly back on topic ! London Underground used to (and probably still does) designate the two directions of the Circle Line as "inner rail" and "outer rail". These aren't used used in any public announcements, though. I think these names date from when the circle was completed in 1884. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 14 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: London had Inner and Outer Circle lines at one time .......... most of the Inner remains as what we know as the Circle ( though no longer a circle ) and bits of the Outer ended up as 'Overground' - which brings us neatly back on topic ! Indeed (and they also had ‘Super Outer Circle’, even further out), but it’s not the same way as the terms are used on the Glasgow Subway (where they are literally the same route, but one is clockwise and the other is anti-clockwise). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEdwardII Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 29 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said: without resorting to a little hand-held screen in their pocket I am already drawing my pension, but the "little hand-held screen" is exactly where I read my maps - including both the Tube map and also the more complex London Tube + Rail map. There isn't always some convenient map on a wall nearby to peruse . The assumption that old folks are clueless with tech is somewhat overdone, although I can agree that there is a higher proportion of older folk who are not comfortable with tech. Hell, I even drive my model railway off my smartphone... Yours, Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 19 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, letterspider said: Exactly - imagine the nonsense of naming the bus routes in London - it's hard enough remembering the numbers. It is? Really? Many, with attendant destinations read from the front of a bus I was never going to catch, are etched in my 75-y-o memory. So if someone, unconnected with buses or London, says 73, Stoke Newington comes to mind. Numbers mean something. And I do not regard myself as remotely numerate. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted February 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19 My goodness some of us get so excited about the most trivial of things. The names selected for these former BR lines seem fine to me with an historical or geographical reference. People will, I'm sure, soon get used to them. I am much more exercised by the news that the three ROSCOs made £400m profit, or a profit rate of 41%, in 2022/3. Compared to the Train Operating Companies, the ROSCOs have very little risk, either safety or financial, given that the Taxpayer underwrites the TOCs. Now that is a railway news piece that is worth looking at... Kind regards, 30368 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Oldddudders said: ... Many, with attendant destinations ... 73, Stoke Newington comes to mind. ... Stoke Newington, I've heard of - one of my local routes ( 353 ) runs from Ramsden Estate to Forestdale ........... it actually goes through the centre of Orpington and connects with Croydon Tramlink near the other end - places people might want to go to ! ( or might not ) .................. oh for the days of proper destination blinds - with 'Via' points ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 It may just be from a common root, but rebranding Romford-Emerson Park-Upminster as the "Liberty Line" chimes with the name of a major shopping centre in Romford. An unfortunate inroad of commercialism, perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Scotian Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Enough people have now raised it - time to rename the circle line. It's no longer a circle. You can't glance at a station on Google maps listing a circle connection and know immediately whether you can go both directions, one direction, if you're out on the dogleg etc. Or make it a circle again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted February 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19 18 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said: Enough people have now raised it - time to rename the circle line. It's no longer a circle. You can't glance at a station on Google maps listing a circle connection and know immediately whether you can go both directions, one direction, if you're out on the dogleg etc. Or make it a circle again. Name it after its end points. The Hammersmith and Edgware Road Line would be too much a mouthful, but shorten it and Ham and Egg would go down a treat. 1 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted February 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19 46 minutes ago, EddieB said: It may just be from a common root, but rebranding Romford-Emerson Park-Upminster as the "Liberty Line" chimes with the name of a major shopping centre in Romford. An unfortunate inroad of commercialism, perhaps? That's a problem if names are selected based on commercial basis. If a business is closed or renamed, the publicly owned infrastructure becomes orphaned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted February 19 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19 20 minutes ago, Jeremy Cumberland said: Name it after its end points. The Hammersmith and Edgware Road Line would be too much a mouthful, but shorten it and Ham and Egg would go down a treat. Careful. Some cultures might object to any reference to ham. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 53 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said: Enough people have now raised it - time to rename the circle line. It's no longer a circle. You can't glance at a station on Google maps listing a circle connection and know immediately whether you can go both directions, one direction, if you're out on the dogleg etc. Or make it a circle again. Announcements and signage refer to trains ‘via Liverpool Street’, ‘via Aldgate’ etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Scotian Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 17 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: Announcements and signage refer to trains ‘via Liverpool Street’, ‘via Aldgate’ etc. Yes. But when you're not at the station those announcements aren't very useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 13 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said: Yes. But when you're not at the station those announcements aren't very useful. Do journey planners, map apps etc. not indicate this as well though? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Every metro I have been on so far, numbers the lines. Clearly every one of those countries were WRONG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Scotian Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said: Do journey planners, map apps etc. not indicate this as well though? Journey planners certainly do. I don't struggle, I grew up in the UK and used the underground regularly. My partner didn't and has been thrown off by some of the idiosyncrasies in the network. Naming/identifying the overground lines would likely have been my priority based on her experience. Next might be dealing with some of the GWR oddities like Greenford to West Ealing. Probably some on southern/swr I'm forgetting too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Which line is Battersea Park station on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DK123GWR Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 9 minutes ago, ess1uk said: Which line is Battersea Park station on? I think it's an alternative terminus on the ELL/Windrush Line for trains that would normally run to Clapham Junction. It only has a few trains per day and if I recall correctly these are mostly early mornings and late evenings. Is this just to avoid formal closure of the line? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 6 hours ago, Oldddudders said: Careful. Some cultures might object to any reference to ham. Careful. Some parts of London - and further afield - might have to be renamed ............... and we'll have to start a new thread on the merits of whatever they're going to be called. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted February 19 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 19 My boss when I worked for London Underground was always rather amused by the "H A M" destination blind. Always on its own, with wide gaps between the letters to try to fill the space. The more usual practice was to cram in as much as possible with supplementary information, so we had things like EALING RUISLIP ROAD EAST and NORTH ACTON GYPSY CORNER. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green too Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 ... shame the following vehicle isn't a coach going to SANDWICH ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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