Peterborough North

[Taz]

I think they are also Parkside. Same page as the link but further down  - PC31

[jwealleans]

Took the words right out....

 

Anyway, Ducky, what's improper about a Sulphate wagon?

[Mallard60022]

If you saw what went on in those wagons whilst they were parked up in Enfield mate..............................................

Q

[Andy Y]

I can fully appreciate how frustrating it is for Gilbert, if you were designing a layout to make it easy to photograph you wouldn't build it this way but that's just not practical in the room size and the size of the layout. It's the length of the views Gilbert can achieve which are part of the problem which creates a lot of work with image content which is out of the hyperfocal range and the fact that a backscene of up to 3' height would be needed inside the layout. It's not practical to keep storing, moving and affixing such either.

 

There's only two solutions really: 1) brick up the windows and bounce artificial light of the new pure white wall (no that's not really practical either!) or 2) use a free version of Photoshop CS2 (GIMP isn't as user friendly and I hope Gilbert doesn't mind me saying that he's not a high-speed whizz on the PC) and spend longer over manually removing content. This will dramatically reduce the number of pictures people get to see.

 

Maybe the in-between stage is to suggest to Gilbert that everyone's more than happy to see shots including the contents of the railway room but every once in a while Gilbert pulls out all the stops to give readers a 'special' where it's had the photoshop treatment?

[Mallard60022]

I think they are also Parkside. Same page as the link but further down  - PC31

Those look good. I've not really taken any notice of them before. Any ideas if they worked on the SR WOE Line in the 60s?

Q

[landscapes]

Thanks Al, and all who hit the agree button. The trouble is that I have found it more and more difficult myself to be satisfied with undoctored images. It is easy when actually operating the layout to ignore the bookcases and other such things, but I've got into this mode where I need to make the images as realistic as I can. I suppose one of my greatest desires when planning this layout was to make it look as much like the real thing as possible, though that wasn't on my original list of priorities.

 

It is the very strong light that is the most frustrating aspect when it comes to photography. That in turn leads to dissatisfaction with my camera, which is most unfair of me, because it is very good indeed at what it can do. Then finally there is the photoshopping programme, which because of its deficiencies or mine, or a combination of both, creates even more problems.

 

I suppose yesterday was just a very bad  day, but everything that could go wrong, did, and I found myself questioning why I should want to sit for what seemed like ages in front of the PC trying to produce something acceptable to me, only to find, more than once, that Paint.net had succeeded in removing things like roofs about fifty moves back in the shopping process. Motivation is sadly lacking at present, I'm afraid, and I'm going to have to accept that either I resign myself to what I have, and what it can do, or spend a lot of money on a better camera, and a proper photoshopping programme, which in turn would mean a lot more time spent in front of this thing.

Hi Gilbert

 

I hope you do not mind me putting in my five pennyworth as well.

 

I know how frustrating model railway photography can be and I do not have a layout yet, just a photo plank which I take out in the garden on a sunny day a play around with different settings on my Canon G1X.

 

In fact I did learn a few very valuable tips on model railway photography from Tony Wright on the occasion I was fortunate enough to visit him at his home and experience his Little Bythan layout.

 

I do think Peter has put a very good suggestion forward in having a good backdrop, the main problem with photoshopping images is trying to put in a background around all those fiddly bits such as lattice signals, buildings and telegraph poles.

 

if you have a good backdrop say in a very pale blue the whole length of your layout or to cover the areas you want to use for photography, it does not have to be that high, just high enough to clear all the tall elements on your layout so you already have the blue behind your signals etc.

 

Then blend in a sky background down to were it meets the blue back board. that should save a lot of frustrating and time consuming editing.

 

By the way you mentioned about buying a better camera, I have a Canon 5D MK11 and its terrible for taking model railway photos far to big and to complexed as well.

 

I always use to use an iPad but now use the G1X on a tripod or beanbag, you have a G12 which is even better than the G1X for focusing as you can focus down to within few inches from the subject where as the G1X can only focus down to about 1'-4" and thats at it's widest angle if I zoom in a little it goes unto about 1'-10".

 

I would definitely stick with your Canon G12 I am considering buying a second hand one myself.

 

With regards to natural sunlight problems, could you not install curtains or window blinds and then install better lighting over your layout area.

 

I use Photoshop Elements 12 which cost around £60 it has more than enough options in it to cover any editing you would wish to do apart from Photo Stacking.

 

Anyway in my opinion the photos you put on your thread background or no background are always superb, so please keep them coming in any form.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited July 20, 2015 by landscapes

[Alister_G]

I've had a go at one of your photos, Gilbert. Please excuse the vandalism.

 

 

 

 

Al

[trw1089]

Hi Gilbert

 

Sorry I am late to the party! I know you set some very high standards for yourself and my brief first hand experience of your layout showed me the challenges you have in producing high quality model photos, but I for one love every image you post (except perhaps that one where the duck was in the picture, that was a bit much when eating my wheaties!). I really enjoy the comings and goings of each working and in that last lot the shiny B17 and the J6 do it for me. I wish I was over there so could help you out with the finer points of using image editors, but you do very well even with the frustrations you deal with and I'm sure Andy Y is always on hand when you get stuck.

 

The thing that really helped me with my layout was the backdrop, but then is that something you want to reach over all the time from the operating well? I think all our railways end up being compromises of some sort, it's just how many of them can we put up with to have an operable, photographic model.

 

Cheers

Tony

[islandbridgejct]

Gilbert, if you think you have problems with getting your modelling right, at least you don't have to contend with this kind of interruption to service!

 

Was it John Ahern who used to run his railway on 110V?

 

(I'm only asking, you understand.)

 

 

 

 

-Edited to get photo to display-

Edited July 20, 2015 by islandbridgejct

[islandbridgejct]

You could try kicking golf balls. It's a good use for them. Unfortunately, one tends to overshoot and end up on ones a**e looking at the sky.

 

I know we've been through most of the permutations for backscenes already, but I was just wondering, if you used a stronger colour card than your sky blue as a backdrop - something really unrealistic - would paint.net manage to render it all in the one colour? It's possible that there's not enough contrast between the foreground and background, and that that's why it keeps eating your layout. (It's also possible it was designed in Swindon and eats LNER layouts for breakfast.) I was thinking something lurid, like crimson lake, but that would be too close to the colour of your signals. Magenta, perhaps, or indigo, or a nice CIE orange.

 

Alternatively, Phil's suggestion sounded good.

 

Alan

[bigwordsmith]

@Alan

Pepper asked me to tell you she's not amused and that she takes her role as furry controller very seriously!

 

However  she did wonder if your suggestion could come in useful for when next door's cat visits...

 

Peter

[Mallard60022]

@Alan

Pepper asked me to tell you she's not amused and that she takes her role as furry controller very seriously!

 

However  she did wonder if your suggestion could come in useful for when next door's cat visits...

 

Peter

Ummmmm, furry controller could cause Mods to intervene if we are not careful................................

Now, if I actually had a layout to photograph it would be useful so I'm off to think abouit that (again, yes, I know).

Quackers.

 

Edit: to point out that any similarity between the items in the pic and Mods is completely intentional.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Mallard60022

[great northern]

Sulphate wagon? Are you having the Ashburton Pullman through, Gilbert?

Phil offered me it as he doesn't need it Jonathan, and it will sit in the sidings by the old engine shed, either awaiting or just having emerged from the wagon repair shop which is just off stage so far as the layout is concerned. I need to have a few things sitting there, so something which wouldn't normally be of use is ideal, if you see what I mean.

[great northern]

OK, chaps, time to catch up. Many thanks to everyone who has made suggestions and offered possible solutions. Rather than quote all the original posts I'll do a single reply, which will save some space. As Andy Y says, it is rather difficult to fully grasp the difficulties involved without having actually seen the railway and the room in which it lives. I shall reject his suggestion of bricking up the windows, mainly because I would not then be able to see the willowy blonde lady wih the two gorgeous spaniels who passes by on the parkland at the back quite regularly.

 

On a more serious note, permanent backscenes are not an option on most of the layout. Why? Well, the main viewing area is from the operating well, so even a two foot high board would be a considerable factor, and would shut off the view of foreground detail. There is already the board behind the water tower and the approach to the Engineer's buildings, or at least there will be when we can get it to stay in position, and I'd like to do something similar behind the loading dock at the south end, but that's as far as it can go.

 

Permanent boards on the window side are not viable either, for several reasons. There are some lovely views from that side, if one is prepared to duck under a second time, and more importantly, that is the side from which photography is easier. The contre jour shots from the operating well are very difficult most of the time, and impossible in bright sunlight. The view of the B17 at the excursion platform in my last photoshoot would be lost, both when photographing and in normal viewing, and I'm sure you will agree that it would be a great shame not to be able properly to see and appreciate Peter Leyland's building and canopies. Again, a board can and I hope will go in at the North end, which is not a viable or comfortable viewing point, but that is as far as I can go.

 

Removeable boards? I've tried that on the operating well side, and it worked to a degree. It's a bit of a nuisance constantly putting them up and taking them down though, so I'm afraid they have largely been forgotten. The suggestion of strong colours to make Paint. Net work better is on the face of it, a very good one, but for some reason it doesn't work. I've found that the programme just won't fully remove blocks of strong colour, such as reds and browns. I may experiment with white background below the bookcases at the North end, though I suspect that may play havoc with  shopping the lattice posts.

 

As to the camera, I love it, and it is very good at what it does. In the past Tony Wright has brought his big Nikon, and achieved far better depth of focus than I can, but the downside of that is the inability to get such a big camera into some of the places where my G12 will go, and the fact that the lens will always be well above the eyeline of a human being, so near rail level shots are out. Catch 22, I'm afraid.

 

I think that leaves the question of lighting. It would certainly make the contre jour images more feasible, but it would be difficult to squeeze the lamps in the small space available on the window side. I'm reluctant to spend money which is needed for the model itself frankly, which applies also when considering a "better" camera.

 

So, where does that leave us? I'm conscious that this may come over as very negative, and I do therefore apologise to all of you who have taken the time to make such helpful suggestions, all of which I seem to have rejected. As I say though, it is hard to grasp the difficulties without actually standing in the room. I'll try to take one or two images to illustrate what I'm saying when time is available. I don't seem to have much of it at present.

 

Is there anything positive at all that comes out of this then? Well, on Monday at Moortown, where we were duly swallowed up, and the pips spat out yet again. my mate and I played with two chaps from Keighley who we'd never met before. Over a nice glass of red in the clubhouse afterwards, one of them said to me. " I have never seen anyone as hard on himself on the golf course ever before in my  life". Perhaps that is the real lesson for me to learn, though it is hard to change the habits of a lifetime.

 

One last thing. On Tuesday, Mick, one half of the famous Wolverhampton MRC duo - Rob and Mick- came over for the day. He had a go at the photography problem, and noticed that an image which was nice and sharp when taken deteriorated in quality straight away when opened in Paint. Net, so that is another thing to be pondered. Perhaps a relatively cheap shopping programme might be an answer? But then you see, I really don't want to spend hours shopping one image. Now, there seems to be general agreement that you don't need me to do that, but I just don't like seeing those ****** bookcases. Oh, look, there's square one again.

[jukebox]

Was it John Ahern who used to run his railway on 110V?

 

(I'm only asking, you understand.)

 

 

 

 

-Edited to get photo to display-

 

I saw that movie when I was a lad: Digby, the Biggest Dog In The World.   Even had a train in it, if my memory serves me correctly...

[70b]

This goes back a few pages to the incredible insulator discussion but I was driving along the a17 east of Newark today and saw this and thought of this thread (hopefully the google links will work), I particularly like that streetview has a pigeon on the post

 

if the links don't work then its between fosdyke and holbeach on the south side

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.854456,-0.030158,3a,23.3y,297.29h,87.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx_b-B4u2WbkVKvtXkBR-rQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://goo.gl/maps/F11c0

 

Ian

[TimH]

Having lurked reading the whole topic for a while now and being massively impressed by Peterborough North I suddenly had a thought about the lighting question. It may not be feasible but would it be possible to roller blinds to pull down to cover the bookcases when you need to do photos and then allow them to roll up afterwards to enable access to the books? Might also work to shade the sunlight as well on a temporary basis. You could have a pole to pull them down and release them which works quite well in my experience with conservatory blinds. Just a thought and I know you've had lots of suggestions but I don't remember seeing that option.

Edited July 23, 2015 by TimH

[Mallard60022]

This goes back a few pages to the incredible insulator discussion but I was driving along the a17 east of Newark today and saw this and thought of this thread (hopefully the google links will work), I particularly like that streetview has a pigeon on the post

 

if the links don't work then its between fosdyke and holbeach on the south side

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.854456,-0.030158,3a,23.3y,297.29h,87.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx_b-B4u2WbkVKvtXkBR-rQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://goo.gl/maps/F11c0

 

Ian

I think that's an ex Pigeon......................deceased etc.

Quaint sign though; an enthusiast?

[70b]

I think that's an ex Pigeon......................deceased etc.

Quaint sign though; an enthusiast?

yes indeed its ex- the photo I took today shows its in the same pose

any ideas what an insulator-collector-geek-ologist-enthusiast should be called?

i.also@36e

[great northern]

Having lurked reading the whole topic for a while now and being massively impressed by Peterborough North I suddenly had a thought about the lighting question. It may not be feasible but would it be possible to roller blinds to pull down to cover the bookcases when you need to do photos and then allow them to roll up afterwards to enable access to the books? Might also work to shade the sunlight as well on a temporary basis. You could have a pole to pull them down and release them which works quite well in my experience with conservatory blinds. Just a thought and I know you've had lots of suggestions but I don't remember seeing that option.

What a very good idea!  I do wish I had thought of it before I put the baseboards in. It is now impossible to reach to the top of the bookcases, which is why the blue card only goes part way up. I'm stuck with that situation now, I'm afraid. I do have blinds at the windows, but even with them fully closed the sun still has its malign influence. When there is no sun though, late afternoon it goes behind other buildings, it then becomes too dark for photography. so I suspect that putting temporary screens in front of the closed blinds may have the same effect.  I suppose moving the house round 45 degrees is out of the question?

[The Stationmaster]

If you can't put extra blinds inside the windows is there to stop you having an awning on the outside in order to put the outside of the wall in shadow - speaking from experience domestic awnings can have a major effect in reducing the amount of sunlight reaching a room.

[great northern]

If you can't put extra blinds inside the windows is there to stop you having an awning on the outside in order to put the outside of the wall in shadow - speaking from experience domestic awnings can have a major effect in reducing the amount of sunlight reaching a room.

Another very good idea Mike, but yet again there are problems. Some years ago a particularly daft pigeon flew into one of the windows so hard that it got half way through the double glazing. It is a long way up there, and the chap who did the replacement glazing told me any future work up there would require full scaffolding, which is expensive. Also, I'm in a conservation area, and we have considerable restrictions on what we are allowed to put on the outside of our properties, so that might mean that it couldn't be done anyway. I shall investigate though, so many thanks.

[stewartingram]

Photoshop CS2 is available as a free download.

 

Stewart

[great northern]

A quick couple of shots to show the effect of putting a 2ft high board along the back of the layout.

Taken from the operating well, on a very gloomy morning, with blinds open but not completely drawn back. Looks OK from here, though a lot of light is still getting in above the board. But look what happens to the view from the window side.

I've tried to get the camera where a person would be if looking down from immediately above the top of the board. For me, that is completely out of the question - one of the nicest views on the layout completely gone.

 

Anything lower of course would just let more light in, so things will stay as they are, except up the North end, where you have to be a contortionist to get any kind of view anyway.

[great northern]

Today was set aside for modelling, apart from taking those two photos to show the problem with backscenes. Then I looked to see what the next trains might be, and I thought that they would be of interest to some people, and that I owed a few after my recent ramblings. So, one of each train, and no photoshopping.   Strange then that there seem to be ten.

At least this is carefully cropped to avoid extra work. An immaculate KX B1 brings the first Up Hull fish through, and the memory of its passing will linger on.

Meanwhile another KX engine, Green Arrow herself, swings under Crescent Bridge with a Class C from KX Goods to Dringhouses. Again no shopping, quick and easy.

And shortly the crews will exchange greetings, or they would if there were any to do so. Still no shopping.

But then our man on the bridge captures a horrific scene. It seems that the city of Peterborough has been razed to the ground.There was just too much clutter behind this for my taste, so I shopped it. This was the fourth sky I tried, and by then I'd had enough.

I liked this angle sufficiently to try to make a proper job of it, but as you can see, even on a dark and dismal day with blinds shut, still enough light got in to bleach things out. Actually, I like this so much that I will return to this angle and do a better job on it.

The B1 again, with all the clutter left in for your delectation.

But things do look so much better with a sky, don't they?

A reminder of where we are.

And some of Green Arrow's wagons.

And the rear of the train. Actually, this has not been seen before, as I have only recently acquired the necessary pipe and tube wagons, though i haven't finished weathering all of them yet. There should be more, but things like this are getting a bit expensive when needed in fairly large numbers.

 

So there you have it, 10 photos I wasn't going to take, and which I was determined not to photoshop even when I had. Such willpower, such resolve!