Peterborough North

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

That looks better.

 

manna

[Market65]

Gilbert, that is superb! The ‘new’ Crescent Bridge really makes all the difference. I can’t really think of anything else for you to do apart from routine maintenance and re-colouring of the ballast.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

[31A]

Wot they sed!  ^^

 

Yes, a big improvement - you must be very pleased with this progress.

[great northern]

Wot they sed!  ^^

 

Yes, a big improvement - you must be very pleased with this progress.

 

 

Gilbert, that is superb! The ‘new’ Crescent Bridge really makes all the difference. I can’t really think of anything else for you to do apart from routine maintenance and re-colouring of the ballast.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

Thank you gentlemen. I am indeed very pleased, but as always I can now see the possibility of making things even better. I'll put up the other photos I took tonight, and then comment generally.

Here you can see the full extent of the extension on this side. It makes a big difference, but Peter and I both think it could go a bit further still.

Impressive bulk from this angle, and we have now been able to extend the loading dock to a ramp coming down just past the bridge, which is prototypically more correct. There wasn't time to paint the extension though. Some form of backscene on that blank wall is also essential, and I have idea as to what that might entail.

and here is the extension seen from the Up platform. This shows, I think, why we consider a shortish further extension would be even better.

pretty self explanatory I think. Some detail and some people and vehicles will be needed. Is it really true that a bridge has to have a bus on it?

This is one I really want to get right, the view along Station Road from the forecourt. Even with the new bridge, I still can't quite get what I'd like, as I've had to angle the camera so as not to show the bridge coming to an abrupt end.

 

Tomorrow I shall take some more, including perhaps some trains, and in daylight instead of this horrid unnatural artificial stuff. I shall then also be able to show the closer view of Station Road heading under the bridge, and the extension to the loading dock. I couldn't do that tonight as the paint wasn't dry.

[Fenman]

Thank you gentlemen. I am indeed very pleased, but as always I can now see the possibility of making things even better. I'll put up the other photos I took tonight, and then comment generally.

bridge 2.JPG

Here you can see the full extent of the extension on this side. It makes a big difference, but Peter and I both think it could go a bit further still.

Bridge 3.JPG

Impressive bulk from this angle, and we have now been able to extend the loading dock to a ramp coming down just past the bridge, which is prototypically more correct. There wasn't time to paint the extension though. Some form of backscene on that blank wall is also essential, and I have idea as to what that might entail.

bridge end.JPG

and here is the extension seen from the Up platform. This shows, I think, why we consider a shortish further extension would be even better.

across bridge.JPG

pretty self explanatory I think. Some detail and some people and vehicles will be needed. Is it really true that a bridge has to have a bus on it?

bridge from forecourt.JPG

This is one I really want to get right, the view along Station Road from the forecourt. Even with the new bridge, I still can't quite get what I'd like, as I've had to angle the camera so as not to show the bridge coming to an abrupt end.

 

Tomorrow I shall take some more, including perhaps some trains, and in daylight instead of this horrid unnatural artificial stuff. I shall then also be able to show the closer view of Station Road heading under the bridge, and the extension to the loading dock. I couldn't do that tonight as the paint wasn't dry.

That is an utterly glorious addition to PN. I'm so pleased for you.

 

Paul

[Jesse Sim]

Well, I spotted this photo in one of my many books....LOOK, a bus on a bridge! 

 

[trw1089]

Now that is a bridge, well, a better bridge!  Will be interested in how you get along with the backdrop on the wall and if I can help at all, just let me know.

 

Cheers

Tony

[Tony Wright]

1626 high.JPG

Hornby's front end is definitely nearer to the real thing than this Crownline kit managed to get.

 

Good morning Gilbert,

 

What's wrong with the front end of Crownline's B17? Or is it the fault of the builder? In that case, who built it? It looks to me as if the smokebox extends a twitch too much. 

 

With respect, I think you're unkind to the Crownline kit. Whoever built/painted yours hasn't paid attention to the fact that it should have 12-spoke bogie wheels, cylinder drain cocks, lubricator pipe runs along the boiler side, hasn't glazed the cab (which isn't perpendicular), has used the smaller numbers and I'm not sure about the colour.

 

 

Here's the Crownline one I built for myself, posed in a similar position. Geoff Haynes painted/weathered this for me - somewhere, on the floor of the Springfields Centre at Spalding, someone will find the missing nameplate! As far as I can tell (photographs and drawings), the front end proportion is correct (as I hope it is on GAYTON HALL which I built for you). 

 

There's no doubt that the Hornby B17 is a very good model, though the bogie wheels (despite having the right number of spokes) are awful. I'm not sure about its smokebox door either - it looks more like the original NER-style 'door, much rarer on B17s in BR days than the later, more bulbous one. 

 

I've no wish to be contentious, but I think you're being a bit unfair on the Crownline kit. 

 

Wonderful bridge, by the way.

 

See you later this morning,

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[great northern]

A couple more of the V2 hauled Class C this morning, before I go and contemplate my lovely new bridge again.

There is already a significant change to the second view since this was taken, which the sharp eyed among you may perhaps have noted in pictures above.

[trw1089]

1626 high.JPG

Hornby's front end is definitely nearer to the real thing than this Crownline kit managed to get.

 

Good morning Gilbert,

 

What's wrong with the front end of Crownline's B17? Or is it the fault of the builder? In that case, who built it? It looks to me as if the smokebox extends a twitch too much. 

 

With respect, I think you're unkind to the Crownline kit. Whoever built/painted yours hasn't paid attention to the fact that it should have 12-spoke bogie wheels, cylinder drain cocks, lubricator pipe runs along the boiler side, hasn't glazed the cab (which isn't perpendicular), has used the smaller numbers and I'm not sure about the colour.

 

B17 61620.jpg

 

Here's the Crownline one I built for myself, posed in a similar position. Geoff Haynes painted/weathered this for me - somewhere, on the floor of the Springfields Centre at Spalding, someone will find the missing nameplate! As far as I can tell (photographs and drawings), the front end proportion is correct (as I hope it is on GAYTON HALL which I built for you). 

 

There's no doubt that the Hornby B17 is a very good model, though the bogie wheels (despite having the right number of spokes) are awful. I'm not sure about its smokebox door either - it looks more like the original NER-style 'door, much rarer on B17s in BR days than the later, more bulbous one. 

 

I've no wish to be contentious, but I think you're being a bit unfair on the Crownline kit. 

 

Wonderful bridge, by the way.

 

See you later this morning,

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Sorry Tony, but I would respectfully disagree. I realise you have a distaste for ready to run products and Hornby bogie wheels in particular but I would have to say that the front overhang on the example you have shown is much greater than on than on the prototype or the Hornby, the cab windows are too small, the front steps are miniscule, the cab also looks out of square and you can clearly see the Romford/Markit wheel nuts. As for the shade of green, well your photo seems to show it as closer to olive green than BR Brunswick Green. The sweep of the rear of the footplate also looks too steep. I would therefore contend that Gilbert was actually being rather kind to the Crownline example he showed and your image appears to confirm that.

 

I, for one, am a keen admirer of B17s and I do prefer the Hornby example as a more reasonable representation of the prototype, even though it could be further improved too. What I observe though is that prior to the entry of the Hornby model, the Crow line kit gave a representation of the B17, but compared to the Hornby example, it does seem to have more faults. I’m not as expert on all prototype matters as you are, but in terms of representing one of my favourite locomotive classes, I certainly know which one I’d prefer to run on my layout.

 

Kind regards

Tony

[Mallard60022]

I have no idea about the details of B17s however I do recognise a most amazing piece of engineering that is that bridge. Just look at those rivets on the inner plating for example. What a damn fine piece of work. 

Phil

[Tony Wright]

Sorry Tony, but I would respectfully disagree. I realise you have a distaste for ready to run products and Hornby bogie wheels in particular but I would have to say that the front overhang on the example you have shown is much greater than on than on the prototype or the Hornby, the cab windows are too small, the front steps are miniscule, the cab also looks out of square and you can clearly see the Romford/Markit wheel nuts. As for the shade of green, well your photo seems to show it as closer to olive green than BR Brunswick Green. The sweep of the rear of the footplate also looks too steep. I would therefore contend that Gilbert was actually being rather kind to the Crownline example he showed and your image appears to confirm that.

 

I, for one, am a keen admirer of B17s and I do prefer the Hornby example as a more reasonable representation of the prototype, even though it could be further improved too. What I observe though is that prior to the entry of the Hornby model, the Crow line kit gave a representation of the B17, but compared to the Hornby example, it does seem to have more faults. I’m not as expert on all prototype matters as you are, but in terms of representing one of my favourite locomotive classes, I certainly know which one I’d prefer to run on my layout.

 

Kind regards

Tony

Thanks Tony,

 

I don't know whether I've really expressed a 'distaste' for RTR products. It's just that I much prefer to see something someone has actually made; by themselves, for themselves. Even if the end-product does not reach the 'perfection' of an RTR alternative. 

 

I take your valid points about the Crownline B17 (one thing I need to do is move the bogie further forward on mine, which would alter the front overhang appearance). Thanks for not noticing that one of the washout plugs is in the wrong place. 

 

'Olive green'? Perhaps, but Hornby's BR green isn't right at source, either.

 

Are you saying the cab on mine is out of square? In what way?

 

Speaking of 'preferences', rightly (or should that be Wrightly?) or wrongly, I know which I'd sooner run, despite its deficiencies. When I have visitors (many of them) to see Little Bytham, what can I say about an RTR loco? I bought it? And, it's perfect? 

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Fenman]

Thanks Tony,

 

I don't know whether I've really expressed a 'distaste' for RTR products. It's just that I much prefer to see something someone has actually made; by themselves, for themselves. Even if the end-product does not reach the 'perfection' of an RTR alternative.

 

I take your valid points about the Crownline B17 (one thing I need to do is move the bogie further forward on mine, which would alter the front overhang appearance). Thanks for not noticing that one of the washout plugs is in the wrong place.

 

'Olive green'? Perhaps, but Hornby's BR green isn't right at source, either.

 

Are you saying the cab on mine is out of square? In what way?

 

Speaking of 'preferences', rightly (or should that be Wrightly?) or wrongly, I know which I'd sooner run, despite its deficiencies. When I have visitors (many of them) to see Little Bytham, what can I say about an RTR loco? I bought it? And, it's perfect?

 

Kind regards,

 

Tony.

I suppose it's horses for courses, though it seems to me you almost risk fetishising the process over the outcome. I guess most of us are in awe of "great modelling" - certainly I love going to exhibitions and having my breath taken away by what people have achieved. Though I confess I'd be less interested in looking at a collection of demonstrably inaccurate models no matter how proud the owner of their achievements (or how hopelessly worse my own ham-fisted efforts would look).

 

Gilbert often generously gives credit to the superb craftsmen who have contributed to achieving his vision. I think most of us are with him, whether they are named or are Hornby's own craftsmen.

 

Paul

[Tony Wright]

I suppose it's horses for courses, though it seems to me you almost risk fetishising the process over the outcome. I guess most of us are in awe of "great modelling" - certainly I love going to exhibitions and having my breath taken away by what people have achieved. Though I confess I'd be less interested in looking at a collection of demonstrably inaccurate models no matter how proud the owner of their achievements (or how hopelessly worse my own ham-fisted efforts would look).

 

Gilbert often generously gives credit to the superb craftsmen who have contributed to achieving his vision. I think most of us are with him, whether they are named or are Hornby's own craftsmen.

 

Paul

Thanks Paul,

 

I love the second part of your opening sentence. 

 

I don't think anyone would be interested in seeing 'a collection of demonstrably inaccurate models', anywhere, though I did see a display of wooden locomotive made by a blind man. Though 'inaccurate', the achievement was outstanding. 

 

We all have our own personal opinions and likes/dislikes. My greatest like in attending exhibitions, or visiting layouts, or visiting the homes of fellow modellers is to ask the builders of things how they made something; themselves. They might not be the finest example of the modeller's craft (or as good as an RTR equivalent), but they're theirs in a unique way. A personal opinion, of course. 

 

Speaking of Gilbert, I visited him today and was able to fix an ailing locomotive and repair a point. That's what mates do - they help each other, if they can. Gilbert freely admits to being just about unable to do any practical modelling, especially with compromised eyesight. In that respect, he's a bit of a 'hostage to fortune', and the dud point rather stuffed the running of his timetable because it took out the Up slow. 

 

We discussed many things (especially over lunch - thanks Gilbert). The role of a modelling 'patron' can have real value. It enables professional model-makers to create things which can really take the breath away. 

 

After finishing my repairs (I hope it's still working, Gilbert), I took the opportunity to take some pictures featuring some of Peter Leyland's contributions to PN.

 

 

The new Crescent Bridge is simply stunning. It's a pity there isn't a lamp nor a front coupling on the B1 (and you really should dust the models my friend), but the new structure (even though there's a bus on it) sets this south end up very well indeed. 

 

 

 

Peter's train shed and station building are among the finest examples of architectural modelling it's been my privilege to photograph. I'm not sure which of these (similar) views through the train shed I prefer. The more 'moody' one? And, the track is 'wobbly' - prototypical? 

 

 

The new bridge makes an excellent frame for the trains. 

 

Thanks for a most-entertaining day.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Tony Wright

[great northern]

 Well, Tony and I had a lovely day, and I was very fortunate to come out at the end of it with both a working A2/2 and the ability to run trains on the Up slow once again. I got around the problem with the damaged turnout by the simple expedient of cancelling all trains routed over it, so it will be very good to get the sequence going properly once again. The A2 was not initially co-operative, but Tony let it know that it wasn't going to beat him, and it didn't, after some quite considerable remedial work. There are aspects of the hobby at which I was always fairly hopeless, and am now even more so, which makes the sort of help which Tony offered all the more important for me.

 

I'm also very good at not noticing when bits have fallen off locos, so I don't mind in the least being reminded of it. Finding those missing bits may be more problematic though. A search for the missing lamp off the B1 predictably revealed nothing. 

 

Now to some more happenings, but first a close up of another piece of Peter's wonderful modelling.

I just happened to look at this, and that caused me to look even more closely at the intricate detail on the tower, and to decide that it deserved a really close up photo for all to enjoy.

 

There are still some images in the bank which were taken before the new bridge arrived, this being the first of them.

 

I made sure that headboard was absolutely straight before the train started moving, but by the time it got to this point, it wasn't.

[great northern]

Shopping and golf today, but I will be back to the layout with renewed enthusiasm tomorrow. There is still one photo from a shoot nine days ago in the file, showing Dominion of Canada coming off and heading for New England.

Tony very kindly brought a copy of one of his latest books for me yesterday, full of lovely Keith Pirt photographs. I was most gratified to see a somewhat cavalier attitude to the display of correct lamps which took place on a number of them, so I now feel more relaxed about my own very similar attitude.

 

The next offering shows an 02 coming from under the old bridge on the Down slow, but it does also show a recent slight cosmetic improvement to the view in that area. Well, I think it does, anyway.

[trw1089]

The ballast is looking very good there Gilbert. Are you happy with how it’s going?

 

Cheers

Tony

[The Stationmaster]

 

 

After finishing my repairs (I hope it's still working, Gilbert), I took the opportunity to take some pictures featuring some of Peter Leyland's contributions to PN.

 

Dsc_5767.jpg

 

The new Crescent Bridge is simply stunning. It's a pity there isn't a lamp nor a front coupling on the B1 (and you really should dust the models my friend), but the new structure (even though there's a bus on it) sets this south end up very well indeed. 

 

DSC_5770.JPG

 

DSC_5772.JPG

 

Peter's train shed and station building are among the finest examples of architectural modelling it's been my privilege to photograph. I'm not sure which of these (similar) views through the train shed I prefer. The more 'moody' one? And, the track is 'wobbly' - prototypical? 

 

Dsc_5774.jpg

 

The new bridge makes an excellent frame for the trains. 

 

 

 

I love that aluminium paint edged smokebox numberplate on the B1 - I can't remember which depot it was that did it but it certainly stirred a few memories.

[CUTLER2579]

I love that aluminium paint edged smokebox numberplate on the B1 - I can't remember which depot it was that did it but it certainly stirred a few memories.

 

I believe it was  40B Immingham if memory serves me right and I also think 61142 was an  Immingham emgime.

[New Haven Neil]

Nice bus.

 

The new bridge is breathtaking, my favourite parts are the latticework cross beams above the road though - well away from the trains.  A real step on for PN, which continues to develop very nicely, and a few new photo opportunities made also.

 

I agree about yet more extension to the left, just to allow that photo angle more freedom to swing about.

 

Those new photos have made my day - thank you Gilbert and of course Peter 'Gravy Train' Leyland.

[great northern]

The ballast is looking very good there Gilbert. Are you happy with how it’s going?

 

Cheers

Tony

I think I'm getting the hang of it now Tony. I've just had a few more pastels delivered, mainly subtly different greys, which I reckon will do the job.

[great northern]

Nice bus.

 

The new bridge is breathtaking, my favourite parts are the latticework cross beams above the road though - well away from the trains.  A real step on for PN, which continues to develop very nicely, and a few new photo opportunities made also.

 

I agree about yet more extension to the left, just to allow that photo angle more freedom to swing about.

 

Those new photos have made my day - thank you Gilbert and of course Peter 'Gravy Train' Leyland.

 Those cross beams sum up Peter's pride in his workmanship, Neil. We were using the Roco bridge as the basis for the model, but Peter couldn't live with what the kit provided, so he scratchbuilt these. What a difference they make, and how I love that bridge!

[great northern]

Something strange is going on.

A B1 with express lights, but there is no E.Lincs Class A due for several hours, and anyway this is a Hitchin loco. What can the carriages behind the tender tell us?

Ah, I see! This is the Northumbrian, running out of course behind the Heart of Midlothian. Obviously there has been a failure down south, and this was the best Hitchin could provide at short notice. Perhaps we should examine the rest of the rake, just to make sure.

Yes, definitely the Northumbrian. Did you notice how I got myself out of the hole I'd dug myself there? It wasn't in the wrong place in the sequence, just running late. It also allowed me to deal with Andy's request to have a look at the stock. Almost clever, that.

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

I thought you could have had a good sequence of pics. when the A1 (?) had it's smoke deflector started to come adrift, there's no way in the world it would have been allowed to continue, the Driver would have been demanding to have it replaced, he would not have wanted that on his record, that he allowed a smoke deflector to fall off in his charge, so it should have been taken off and a replacement found (that filthy V2 standing around all day, on relief) I know it would have ruined the timetable, but it would have given you a perfect opportunity to get everything in the wrong place, just like the real thing.

I can remember one Christmas time, the KX-Newcastle stock was still in Newcastle, a couple of hours before it was due to leave the 'Cross' there were frantic calls to Bounds Green and Hornsey C/S to find some spare stock, guess who got the job to go pick it up and bring it in to the 'Cross', half was at Bounds Green, half was at Hornsey, still left on time, but only just.

 

manna

[thegreenhowards]

Something strange is going on.

N1.JPG

A B1 with express lights, but there is no E.Lincs Class A due for several hours, and anyway this is a Hitchin loco. What can the carriages behind the tender tell us?

NS1.JPG

Ah, I see! This is the Northumbrian, running out of course behind the Heart of Midlothian. Obviously there has been a failure down south, and this was the best Hitchin could provide at short notice. Perhaps we should examine the rest of the rake, just to make sure.

NS 2.JPG

NS 3.JPG

NS 4.JPG

NS 5.JPG

NS 6.JPG

NS 7.JPG

NS 8.JPG

Yes, definitely the Northumbrian. Did you notice how I got myself out of the hole I'd dug myself there? It wasn't in the wrong place in the sequence, just running late. It also allowed me to deal with Andy's request to have a look at the stock. Almost clever, that.

Love the triplet Gilbert, and the Cravens is icing on the cake!

 

Thanks

 

Andy