Peterborough North

[great northern]

8 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Gilbert

 

I have some Hornby Railroad coaches that need converting to something. Would you like, for your Cleethorpes train one of them there RKB with only 4 seats?

 

That would be very nice and extraordinarily kind Clive. Having something to look forward to is getting to be of paramount importance, I think, so I will most certainly take you up on that. In return, I promise not to say negative things about EE Type4s.

Edited March 25, 2020 by great northern
to correct spelling

[great northern]

1 hour ago, bigwordsmith said:

thanks Ian

 

Ive had it once before and now have a long term interstitial lung disease which means I run out of gas quite easily

 

it turns out I tore the lung pleura and the lung itself, rupturing an artery along the way. This wound is quite sore, and feels like I’ve been knifed when I cough.

 

I’m feeling  a whole lot better but shattered from lousy nights in hospital and desperate to get home

Its understandable you want to get home Peter, but aren't you probably in the safest place right now?   The great thing is you have the diagnosis and the treatment, and it sounds as though it is working.

[great northern]

9 hours ago, jukebox said:

A suggestion, Gilbert?

 

Some of your shots might benefit from cropping to a wider format than 4:3.

 

That first one above, for instance, takes on more oomph (at least I think that's the technical term) if you letterbox it:

 

 

Of course this sort of thing is totally subjective.  One mans' meat, another man's poison and all that...

 

Regards

 

Scott

 

edit:  I wonder if it may have something to do with the "rule of thirds" coming into play.  With the sky and rails cropped, the horizontal "thirds lines" touch the train rather than the sky and rails, and the eye runs along the train to the station...  Important disclosure: I don't always believe in that rule.

 

 

 I like to give the impression of space where I can Scott, and this shot is one of the few places where there is that opportunity. I'm also influenced by the Vic Fincham 1950s images I have, so I tend to follow them. Of course they have been cropped to fit in a book, so that isn't necessarily the best thing to do.

Scrolling back and looking at all three again though, I think I prefer yours, but not cropped quite so severely at top and bottom. As you say, personal taste comes into it.

[great northern]

Centenary has gone on its way, and another load of coal runs through, Tango in charge.

 

 

The vans had not been moved when this was taken, but I believe stern instructions have since been given.

 

The 02 was in turn followed by our lovely little J3, on its way to do some shunting down at south yard, or possibly Fletton.

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

8 hours ago, manna said:

 

G'day Folks

 

Are you taking 'Order's'...........

 

manna

Hi Terry

 

Sorry I am not. Anyhow two little points, one the conversion to a RKB took place after nationalisation which out of your time period and second you have the skills, imagination, are clever enough etc. to whittle one from a Hornby Mk3 HST coach.  And get it right.

[CUTLER2579]

11 hours ago, great northern said:

Plenty about by 1960, I'm afraid. Down south it was just the original five, D201/6/7/8/9, but they appeared a lot. Gateshead York and Haymarket got a batch starting from D237 though, and they seemed to be around a lot as well.

 

Down South we actually had the original 10 . 5 @  34B Hornsey & 5 @ 30AStratford.

I can't actually remember which five were at Stratford although I saw all Ten. I know D200 & D202 were definately @ Stratford , I think D204 was as well but the other two escape me at the moment.

Obviously D203 & surprisingly to me D205 were at Stratford

Both brain cells still waking up .I agree fully with your remarks about the Northern ones though Gilbert.

Regards.

Edited March 25, 2020 by CUTLER2579

[great northern]

21 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

 

Down South we actually had the original 10 . 5 @  34B Hornsey & 5 @ 30AStratford.

I can't actually remember which five were at Stratford although I saw all Ten. I know D200 & D202 were definately @ Stratford , I think D204 was as well but the other two escape me at the moment.

Obviously D203 & surprisingly to me D205 were at Stratford

Both brain cells still waking up .I agree fully with your remarks about the Northern ones though Gilbert.

Regards.

I was limiting it to the ECML Derek, but I should have made that clear.

[jazzer]

15 hours ago, great northern said:

Plenty about by 1960, I'm afraid. Down south it was just the original five, D201/6/7/8/9, but they appeared a lot. Gateshead York and Haymarket got a batch starting from D237 though, and they seemed to be around a lot as well.

 

Faulty memory now corrected by digging out my old Ian Allen Combined Volume.  Apart from the GE based locos I actually saw  3 others from D237 onwards although goodness knows where I saw them, as I never went further than Grantham on the GN line until years later. Incidentally you mention 201and D207 but I saw these at Liverpool St at sometime around 1961, so they must have been Stratford engines for a time, In fact I came back from Norwich behind D207 . I still, for the life of me can’t remember seeing one at KX. Nice stirring up old memories though.

[jazzer]

4 hours ago, CUTLER2579 said:

 

Down South we actually had the original 10 . 5 @  34B Hornsey & 5 @ 30AStratford.

I can't actually remember which five were at Stratford although I saw all Ten. I know D200 & D202 were definately @ Stratford , I think D204 was as well but the other two escape me at the moment.

Obviously D203 & surprisingly to me D205 were at Stratford

Both brain cells still waking up .I agree fully with your remarks about the Northern ones though Gilbert.

Regards.

 

I saw D200 -D203/5/7 at Liverpool St , that’s six so presumably they were moved around a little . I never saw D204 but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. However whenever I passed through LSt there always seemed to be one at the buffers and one at the other end ready for departure so it would be unusual if I missed one.

[great northern]

2 minutes ago, jazzer said:

 

I saw D200 -D203/5/7 at Liverpool St , that’s six so presumably they were moved around a little . I never saw D204 but that doesn’t mean it wasn’t there. However whenever I passed through LSt there always seemed to be one at the buffers and one at the other end ready for departure so it would be unusual if I missed one.

I can't find my later Ian Allans at the moment, but my recollection is that 200/2/3/4/5 were at Stratford, and 201/6/7/8/9 at Hornsey. Perhaps they did move on short term loan.

 

I didn't answer your query about the Talisman. My recollection is that it was very often steam hauled, and photos confirm that. Maybe photographers just didn't take photos of diesels though.

 

It seems to have been realised quickly that the EE4s were no improvement on a good Pacific, and taking into account older drivers being somewhat set in their ways, if you put the two together you see why steam hung on till 61/62 when the Deltics arrived. Diesel availability wasn't that good in the early days either.

[JeffP]

My first visit to KX in the blue era, a 40 was on a northbound train. Circa 1974, it was allocated to Healey Mills, which threw me. HAYLEY Mills, sure, but Healey Mills? Where on earth was that???

It left from the platform closest to the locals, whichever that is? Platform 1?

[CUTLER2579]

Funnily enough Gilbert I purchased Steam World in 2017/2018 as they had a Ten part item on Peter Townend and since then have never been able to read them. i am now having a course of Injections to save my eyesight and I am pleased to report they seem to be doing the trick Hospital appointment with Consultant Eye Man @ Lincoln tomorrow.

I digress, Mr Townend is quoted as saying that for the wedding of the duke & Duchess of Kent at York minster in 1961, the powers that be instructed him to prepare three steam engines to pull the Royal Train and two trains of guests. Reason being Diesels were not reliable enough.

The following day all staff involved in the operation including drivers & Firemen were summoned upstairs for a "Firkin" of ale.

[great northern]

2 minutes ago, JeffP said:

My first visit to KX in the blue era, a 40 was on a northbound train. Circa 1974, it was allocated to Healey Mills, which threw me. HAYLEY Mills, sure, but Healey Mills? Where on earth was that???

It left from the platform closest to the locals, whichever that is? Platform 1?

I think that used to be the old Platform 10.

[great northern]

Just now, CUTLER2579 said:

Funnily enough Gilbert I purchased Steam World in 2017/2018 as they had a Ten part item on Peter Townend and since then have never been able to read them. i am now having a course of Injections to save my eyesight and I am pleased to report they seem to be doing the trick Hospital appointment with Consultant Eye Man @ Lincoln tomorrow.

I digress, Mr Townend is quoted as saying that for the wedding of the duke & Duchess of Kent at York minster in 1961, the powers that be instructed him to prepare three steam engines to pull the Royal Train and two trains of guests. Reason being Diesels were not reliable enough.

The following day all staff involved in the operation including drivers & Firemen were summoned upstairs for a "Firkin" of ale.

I read all of those Derek. A lot of it was a rehash of what he'd written in the past, but well worth a good look, as with Dick Hardy.

[CUTLER2579]

11 minutes ago, JeffP said:

My first visit to KX in the blue era, a 40 was on a northbound train. Circa 1974, it was allocated to Healey Mills, which threw me. HAYLEY Mills, sure, but Healey Mills? Where on earth was that???

It left from the platform closest to the locals, whichever that is? Platform 1?

 

No mate in Steam days it was Platform Ten, although I believe by 1974 it may have become Platform Eight. 

There was no Platform 4 or 9 as far as I remember. might have been 3 & 9 ,but I don't think so.

Sorry Gilbert I didn't see your reply,but you are spot on.

Edited March 25, 2020 by CUTLER2579

[CUTLER2579]

2 minutes ago, great northern said:

I read all of those Derek. A lot of it was a rehash of what he'd written in the past, but well worth a good look, as with Dick Hardy.

 

I do agree Gilbert,much of it was in "Top Shed"  but these youngsters probably never got to read that.

[great northern]

Here is an experiment. I have all the Railway Observers from the mid 50s to the early 60s. and I though t a few extracts might be of interest, giving eye witness acounts of day to day happenings. As Jazzer has recently been enquiring  about A3 duties, I'll start with this extract.

 

Two hours observation at Wood Green on Friday 8th August 1958. " A veritable feast of early A3s".

 

7.20 KX-Peterborough 60107

 

Down Ardsley braked goods 60102.

 

7.30 FO KX- Aberdeen 60044

 

7.45 KX-Aberdeen  60038

 

Up Heart of Midlothian 60050

 

unidentified relief  60104.

 

One every twenty minutes on average. If there is sufficient interest, I'll post some more.

[jazzer]

2 hours ago, great northern said:

I can't find my later Ian Allans at the moment, but my recollection is that 200/2/3/4/5 were at Stratford, and 201/6/7/8/9 at Hornsey. Perhaps they did move on short term loan.

 

I didn't answer your query about the Talisman. My recollection is that it was very often steam hauled, and photos confirm that. Maybe photographers just didn't take photos of diesels though.

 

It seems to have been realised quickly that the EE4s were no improvement on a good Pacific, and taking into account older drivers being somewhat set in their ways, if you put the two together you see why steam hung on till 61/62 when the Deltics arrived. Diesel availability wasn't that good in the early days either.

 

Yes you are probably about right.  Once Type 4’s arrived at Stratford all the Britannia’s were sent to Norwich so if Stratford had a failure it probably made more sense to borrow one from Hornsey than to get a Brit down From Norwich.

 

I don’t know about drivers being set in their ways but the Type 4 ‘s weren’t popular among the KX men.  Just before the Deltics  and Brush 4’s arrived I did a return trip to Doncaster ( the one occasion I had been further than Grantham ). By that stage the GN section still seemed to be heavily steam even though the GE section was heavily dieselised . Travelling down on the 8.25 KX-Hull behind V2 60889. I travelled in the first compartment along with a driver and fireman who were travelling up on the cushions to bring my return train from Doncaster. They were moaning about the diesels (presumably EE 4’s) and said they had brought a diesel back the previous day and didn’t like it at all. As we entered Doncaster we saw our return loco 60003 Andrew K. McCosh in the bay and the fireman said “Just what we wanted “.   ‘  Nuff said !

 

[jazzer]

1 hour ago, CUTLER2579 said:

Funnily enough Gilbert I purchased Steam World in 2017/2018 as they had a Ten part item on Peter Townend and since then have never been able to read them. i am now having a course of Injections to save my eyesight and I am pleased to report they seem to be doing the trick Hospital appointment with Consultant Eye Man @ Lincoln tomorrow.

I digress, Mr Townend is quoted as saying that for the wedding of the duke & Duchess of Kent at York minster in 1961, the powers that be instructed him to prepare three steam engines to pull the Royal Train and two trains of guests. Reason being Diesels were not reliable enough.

The following day all staff involved in the operation including drivers & Firemen were summoned upstairs for a "Firkin" of ale.

Quite apart from the trains , Cutler , I really wish you all the best in your eyesight problems and hope all goes well for you. I do enjoy your insightful comments on here.

[cb900f]

2 hours ago, CUTLER2579 said:

Funnily enough Gilbert I purchased Steam World in 2017/2018 as they had a Ten part item on Peter Townend and since then have never been able to read them. i am now having a course of Injections to save my eyesight and I am pleased to report they seem to be doing the trick Hospital appointment with Consultant Eye Man @ Lincoln tomorrow.

I digress, Mr Townend is quoted as saying that for the wedding of the duke & Duchess of Kent at York minster in 1961, the powers that be instructed him to prepare three steam engines to pull the Royal Train and two trains of guests. Reason being Diesels were not reliable enough.

The following day all staff involved in the operation including drivers & Firemen were summoned upstairs for a "Firkin" of ale.

 

Macular degeneration ? Injection in the eye is bad enough psychologically, but for me it's the 5-6 hrs after until the Iodine wears off. Ironically I've had one this morning. I'll never get used to them but you don't have a choice.

 

Apologies for off topic Gilbert.

 

Pete

[landscapes]

2 hours ago, great northern said:

Here is an experiment. I have all the Railway Observers from the mid 50s to the early 60s. and I though t a few extracts might be of interest, giving eye witness acounts of day to day happenings. As Jazzer has recently been enquiring  about A3 duties, I'll start with this extract.

 

Two hours observation at Wood Green on Friday 8th August 1958. " A veritable feast of early A3s".

 

7.20 KX-Peterborough 60107

 

Down Ardsley braked goods 60102.

 

7.30 FO KX- Aberdeen 60044

 

7.45 KX-Aberdeen  60038

 

Up Heart of Midlothian 60050

 

unidentified relief  60104.

 

One every twenty minutes on average. If there is sufficient interest, I'll post some more.

Hi Gilbert 

 

yes please a great idea 

 

Regards

 

David

[great northern]

16 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi Gilbert 

 

yes please a great idea 

 

Regards

 

David

Would you like some Scottish observations as well, David?

[landscapes]

20 minutes ago, great northern said:

Would you like some Scottish observations as well, David?

Hi Gilbert

 

That would be very kind of you if you can, but any records of line side movements recorded in the 1950’s and early 1960’s I find really fascinating.

 

Thank you Gilbert 

 

Regards 

 

David

[great northern]

23 minutes ago, landscapes said:

Hi Gilbert

 

That would be very kind of you if you can, but any records of line side movements recorded in the 1950’s and early 1960’s I find really fascinating.

 

Thank you Gilbert 

 

Regards 

 

David

As it happens, first RO I opened "Interesting visitors to Waverley on 27/7/58 included 61034 (51E), and 61338 (51A), but the outstanding observation was a 9F, 92177 (36A), which brought in a parcels train on 21st August"

[FarrMan]

Re the first EE4's, from

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&id=206&type=D&loco=D206

 

it would appear that the first few did tend to hop about between Stratford, Hornsey, Finsbury Park, etc, quite a lot. I certainly remember traveling behind them between Peterborough and Grantham a few times, but nearly 60 years later with no records, do not expect me to remember which ones. All I remember is that they were a bit of a disappointment.

 

Lloyd