Frasers Group (nee Sports Direct) raises stake in Hornby to 9%

[Clearwater]

19 hours ago, JohnR said:

He's doubled his money already - price at the moment is 40p

 

On paper but selling 10% is not the same as selling  0.0000001% so he'd likely not achieve the current quoted market price.

[Clearwater]

At the heart of the Sports Direct model is efficient and rapid distribution of their product.  They can and do move goods to and from their large distribution hub in Derbyshire.  I can see how they must look at businesses like Hornby and think we can cut the distribution overhead.  I suspect that's why they brought GAME and other businesses.  If they can add marginal load to lorries already doing a trip from the type of small towns that still have a model shop and a branch of Sports Direct, then they increase their overall profits.  

 

As a large single shareholder, whether Phoenix wants to invite them into join the board is a good question - I'm sure they're talking.  For Fraser Group, this is not just a financial play - it's an operational play.

[BachelorBoy]

On 27/02/2024 at 17:36, Deano said:

He’s a businessman and makes money on the back of people losing money. 

 

How?

[BachelorBoy]

22 hours ago, JohnR said:

He's doubled his money already - price at the moment is 40p

 

But to realise that gain, he has to sell the shares at that price.

 

That's a lot of shares to get rid of without other players noticing.

 

And once they notice that a large shareholder is selling shares, then the price drops again.

 

In fact, it might well drop below what he paid for them, as such a sudden change of mind would raise suspicions that once he'd bought the shares, he'd found out something negative about Hornby.

 

 

 

 

 

[BachelorBoy]

3 hours ago, Clearwater said:

As a large single shareholder, whether Phoenix wants to invite them into join the board is a good question - I'm sure they're talking.  For Fraser Group, this is not just a financial play - it's an operational play.

 

I see Hornby's done a U-turn on Playtrains already. I wonder if that was because Mike got on the blower to Margate.... :-)

 

I wonder what Mr Ashley thinks of TT120?

 

 

[Deano]

2 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

How?

There’s no additional money in the world of commerce, it just moves around. When you win the lottery, you are just getting someone else’s money. Same in business.

[ColinB]

15 minutes ago, Deano said:

There’s no additional money in the world of commerce, it just moves around. When you win the lottery, you are just getting someone else’s money. Same in business.

Seeing as most of our major companies get taken over by foreign investment I do often wonder if there is any money left in this country.

[BachelorBoy]

10 hours ago, Deano said:

There’s no additional money in the world of commerce, it just moves around. When you win the lottery, you are just getting someone else’s money. Same in business.

 

If that were the case, the economy would never grow.

 

[BachelorBoy]

11 hours ago, Deano said:

There’s no additional money in the world of commerce, it just moves around. When you win the lottery, you are just getting someone else’s money. Same in business.

 

If that were the case, the economy would never grow.

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 25/02/2024 at 19:19, adb968008 said:

I’m more interested to know whom he bought from…

 

Just catching up but the percentage held by Artemis has dropped although not by quite as many percent as the extent of the Frasers Group holding.  So Frasers must also have picked some up from elsewhere.

 

But the loony (??) thing is the way the Hornby share price has now leapt up by around 40% in just over a week and today stands at a bid price of 37.50.  Where has all this supposedly added value in the company suddenly come from?  Is someone expecting Ashley to try to buy up even more or what is really going on?  The Financial Report is c.3 months off  but has the sales/finance picture changed that dramatically since the Trading Statement posted on 17  January - barely six weeks back?  

 

Definitely something a bit odd going on over the share price and it can't be for any real reason apart from a suspicion that Ashley, or 'someone', might be going to buy up more.  But why does Frasers Group/Ashley (and anybody else)hsuddenly see value in Hornby?

[JohnR]

5 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Just catching up but the percentage held by Artemis has dropped although not by quite as many percent as the extent of the Frasers Group holding.  So Frasers must also have picked some up from elsewhere.

 

 

 

Frasers must already have had a small holding beforehand. If you track the trades, you can see they purchased their 11 million shares in a single block last week at a price of 20p. Can only have come from Artemis.  

 

[adb968008]

23 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Just catching up but the percentage held by Artemis has dropped although not by quite as many percent as the extent of the Frasers Group holding.  So Frasers must also have picked some up from elsewhere.

 

But the loony (??) thing is the way the Hornby share price has now leapt up by around 40% in just over a week and today stands at a bid price of 37.50.  Where has all this supposedly added value in the company suddenly come from?  Is someone expecting Ashley to try to buy up even more or what is really going on?  The Financial Report is c.3 months off  but has the sales/finance picture changed that dramatically since the Trading Statement posted on 17  January - barely six weeks back?  

 

Definitely something a bit odd going on over the share price and it can't be for any real reason apart from a suspicion that Ashley, or 'someone', might be going to buy up more.  But why does Frasers Group/Ashley (and anybody else)hsuddenly see value in Hornby?

me too’ism…

 

I think the wave has crested but it doesn't stop a few surfers joining the ride.

until the main shareholder makes a move, or Hornby surprises us, everything else is just deck chair shuffling.

 

Maybe HoF can improve the website and help with logistics ?

 

Edited March 1 by adb968008

[PeterStiles]

10 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

the economy would never grow

That's why you Mine, refine and build things, it adds value to the economy.

 

Any why you have Foreign Countries you can export to and import from...

 

But in a closed economy you're just Moving Money Around...

 

At least I've Started to read Adam Smith..

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

If that were the case, the economy would never grow.

 

It does if you print more, then inflate prices.

[adb968008]

9 minutes ago, PeterStiles said:

That's why you Mine, refine and build things, it adds value to the economy.

 

Any why you have Foreign Countries you can export to and import from...

 

But in a closed economy you're just Moving Money Around...

 

At least I've Started to read Adam Smith..

Britains problem is its mercantile routes…

 

belief everyone brings everything to London, the a British middle man shares it with wider empire, and takes his cut for being little more than broker, financier, logistics etc.

 

Thats why were so bad at making something ourselves and having to go hunt for places to sell it in a competitive global market… we only seem to win when we set the rules and police it… but that requires others to agree to listen to us and be policed… something ended in everything but sport, when empire collapsed.

Edited March 1 by adb968008

[Deano]

23 hours ago, ColinB said:

Seeing as most of our major companies get taken over by foreign investment I do often wonder if there is any money left in this country.

It does make you wonder doesn’t it. Britain does have some of the largest banks lending globally, so there is an offset. The bit I’ve never understood is, for example, why we import so many cars, when we make enough here to satisfy new car sales. It’s a poor example, but, hopefully you understand the sentiment behind it.

[Clearwater]

23 hours ago, ColinB said:

Seeing as most of our major companies get taken over by foreign investment I do often wonder if there is any money left in this country.

 

That's not how it works.  If a company listed in the UK is taken over by a foreign firm, the UK shareholders receive cash.  They then reinvest that cash in other companies / investments. From the UK shareholders' perspective, they will only agree to sell to the investor if the price the foreign investor offers is greater than that the shareholder values the company at itself and the selling shareholder feels they have other reinvestment options that offer them greater value.

 

Its just like thinking about savings accounts or mortgages.  If you have a fixed rate mortgage with a penalty fee, there will be a point when mortgage rates have fallen sufficiently that you can save money even after accounting for the extra cost.

 

[Deano]

11 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

If that were the case, the economy would never grow.

 

Engineering supply to be slightly less than demand, increasing prices, raising revenues, raising economy’s. New ideas, new start ups, borrowing from cash reserves converted from gold or other valuable substance's free’s up capital and grows economy’s. There’s no additional monies in the world. Someone will always lose out somewhere, currently it’s Chinese builders.

[Clearwater]

7 minutes ago, Deano said:

It does make you wonder doesn’t it. Britain does have some of the largest banks lending globally, so there is an offset. The bit I’ve never understood is, for example, why we import so many cars, when we make enough here to satisfy new car sales. It’s a poor example, but, hopefully you understand the sentiment behind it.

 

The ranges of cars purchased are greater than those manufactured in the UK.  It simply isnt economic to manufacture all types of car in any single market hence cheaper to build at scale in one country and export to another.  Cheaper to have the toolings etc for car type A in one factory and build that car to the plant capacity and pay the distribution costs of cars rather than carry 10 types of toolings in 10 different countries and have lower distribution costs.  

[Deano]

9 minutes ago, Clearwater said:

 

The ranges of cars purchased are greater than those manufactured in the UK.  It simply isnt economic to manufacture all types of car in any single market hence cheaper to build at scale in one country and export to another.  Cheaper to have the toolings etc for car type A in one factory and build that car to the plant capacity and pay the distribution costs of cars rather than carry 10 types of toolings in 10 different countries and have lower distribution costs.  

Quite correct, I should have used beef, lamb or maybe flour, as an example. All in all a complicated subject.

[ColinB]

2 hours ago, Clearwater said:

 

That's not how it works.  If a company listed in the UK is taken over by a foreign firm, the UK shareholders receive cash.  They then reinvest that cash in other companies / investments. From the UK shareholders' perspective, they will only agree to sell to the investor if the price the foreign investor offers is greater than that the shareholder values the company at itself and the selling shareholder feels they have other reinvestment options that offer them greater value.

 

Its just like thinking about savings accounts or mortgages.  If you have a fixed rate mortgage with a penalty fee, there will be a point when mortgage rates have fallen sufficiently that you can save money even after accounting for the extra cost.

 

I actually know that. Generally they sell because they can't raise enough capital for what they want to do. Please credit most of us with a bit of knowledge. The more important thing is that not many of our big companies are being bought by Brits similarly virtually all of our football clubs at Premiership level are again foreign owned. The point is that if you are a medium sized business it is incredibly difficult to raise funds.

[ColinB]

2 hours ago, Deano said:

It does make you wonder doesn’t it. Britain does have some of the largest banks lending globally, so there is an offset. The bit I’ve never understood is, for example, why we import so many cars, when we make enough here to satisfy new car sales. It’s a poor example, but, hopefully you understand the sentiment behind it.

I can only comment on my old firm. The US management though they would sell more units if they could put "German Made" on their product plus a bit of creative accounting by the Germans to make the unit price look cheaper (they got a huge shock when the real one surfaced 6 months later). The other thing with Germany, it is a bit like Hotel California you can enter but you can never leave, the Workers Council makes sure of that. I don't think they sold anymore anyway and it is the same robot that makes them whether it is Germany or the UK.

[ColinB]

14 hours ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

If that were the case, the economy would never grow.

 

Why not, the Government still collects taxes, it is just the profits are moved elsewhere. Seeing as the economy is mostly focussed on the Service Sector with a big emphasis on banking, the economy can still grow although long term there might be a few issues.

[BachelorBoy]

22 hours ago, Deano said:

Engineering supply to be slightly less than demand, increasing prices, raising revenues, raising economy’s. New ideas, new start ups, borrowing from cash reserves converted from gold or other valuable substance's free’s up capital and grows economy’s. There’s no additional monies in the world. Someone will always lose out somewhere, currently it’s Chinese builders.

 

Bonkers.

[Deano]

1 hour ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

Bonkers.

You ridicule, but add nothing, I’m done here.