Frasers Group (nee Sports Direct) raises stake in Hornby to 9%

[1andrew1]

6 hours ago, adb968008 said:

IHornby is just a company, just a name, its not set in stone that it as a company exists to serve super detailed modellers…if it found profit in being a Bakery… then a Bakery it should become.

 

And let's not forget that the original Hornby brand owner diversified into model cars and trains from its primary business of Meccano.

[Legend]

20 hours ago, Ravenser said:

 

Nothing is currently showing on the Dapol shop under OO coaches Dapol OO coaches which is why I made the comment.

 

They have the tooling, but apparently no current stock (And again, the Toplights are hardly a "budget" product. One suite of tooling doesn't really allow you to make a budget play in OO coaches)

 Ravenser you’re wrong here . Dapol are heavily invested in OO you only need to look at GWR Mogul . Prairie and I think there’s a forthcoming 28xx for that. . Their class 68 I still rank as one of the best diesel models produced and price wise these tend to be more reasonable than most suppliers . There’s also the 52 Western . 
 

For coaches there are the top lights but these are fairly high spec for £55. Wagons is where they really do score though , with lots of ex Hornby Dublo wagons at very reasonable prices possibly even lower than Railroad .

 

So while Dapol do have a wide ranging remit covering O , OO and N  to say they are not very interested in OO is clearly wrong . 

[Geep7]

6 minutes ago, Legend said:

 Ravenser you’re wrong here . Dapol are heavily invested in OO you only need to look at GWR Mogul . Prairie and I think there’s a forthcoming 28xx for that. . Their class 68 I still rank as one of the best diesel models produced and price wise these tend to be more reasonable than most suppliers . There’s also the 52 Western . 
 

For coaches there are the top lights but these are fairly high spec for £55. Wagons is where they really do score though , with lots of ex Hornby Dublo wagons at very reasonable prices possibly even lower than Railroad .

 

So while Dapol do have a wide ranging remit covering O , OO and N  to say they are not very interested in OO is clearly wrong . 

Not to mention the Class 73, Class 22, Class 121 & 122 DMU railcars and the excellent B4 0-4-0. 

[melmerby]

24 minutes ago, Legend said:

lots of ex Hornby Dublo wagons at very reasonable prices possibly even lower than Railroad .

But pretty low spec, like the ex Airfix stuff at Hornby.

They were great bodies at the time they were released but don't come up to modern expectations.

 

I wish Dapol would spend more time getting things right on some items before releasing them.

The Mogul (and Prairie) was a prime example, silly gearing and daft slidebars which have been corrected on later batches, meaning early adopters like me get a relative lemon of a loco.

 

 

[jjb1970]

I tend to think that when it comes to stuff like pricing and costs the best approach for a manufacturer is to say nothing. Whatever they say is just likely to provoke more questions.

 

A few years ago we were told by some that models were expensive because of production costs associated with superdetailed models. Then others told us that reducing detail wouldn't alter costs by much. And it's possible both statements could be true as different companies have different commercial and management models, some are more or less efficient, have a different expectation on rate of return on investment and some will just be better at what they do. So the fact a statement may be true for company 'A' means nothing for other companies. 

 

Given that it's a complex issue, the commercial sensitivity of much of the info needed to form an opinion and the fact that ultimately prices are what they are leads me to believe suppliers are best off just keeping quiet - that's the price, if you like it you'll buy it if not you'll go elsewhere. 

[1andrew1]

This could be good news for improving Hornby's systems and logistics.

Quote

Mike Ashley has entered into a consultancy agreement with Hornby through Mash Holdings Ltd (a company wholly owned by Mike Ashley). Mike will be available to support Olly Raeburn, CEO of Hornby, and the wider business, particularly in relation to systems, operations, logistics and, where relevant, broader matters of strategy.

This approach is aligned to Fraser Group's policy of partnering with strategic investments in order to add value for the respective shareholders of Hornby and Fraser Group. No remuneration is payable to Mash by Frasers or Hornby for these consultancy services.

https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/Hornby/news/rns/story/wv4d40w

Edited March 20 by 1andrew1

[BachelorBoy]

59 minutes ago, 1andrew1 said:

This could be good news for improving Hornby's systems and logistics.

https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/Hornby/news/rns/story/wv4d40w

 

I hope he kicks some ar5e.

[1andrew1]

1 hour ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

I hope he kicks some ar5e.

In this video at 13:47, an Airfix retailer who is a critical friend of Hornby Hobbies describes how the company is difficult to order from with no online portal. This would seem a priority for the new management to tackle.

 

[Grovenor]

That sounds very like Sam.

[micklner]

8 hours ago, 1andrew1 said:

This could be good news for improving Hornby's systems and logistics.

https://polaris.brighterir.com/public/Hornby/news/rns/story/wv4d40w

Or with 9%  he seems to be quitely taking over via the back door . Access to all systems etc etc , of course he is'nt charging for all of this !! How kind of Mr Ashley 🤬

[1andrew1]

27 minutes ago, micklner said:

Or with 9%  he seems to be quitely taking over via the back door . Access to all systems etc etc , of course he is'nt charging for all of this !! How kind of Mr Ashley 🤬

Fraser Group's 8.9% Hornby stake is substantial but Hornby is currently well and truly controlled by Phoenix who own a whopping 73.4% of the company.  It could be that Ashley is a bit bored having handed over managing Frasers Group to his son-in-law, and he certainly doesn't need the money!

Edited March 20 by 1andrew1

[Bob83a]

In the Evening Standard article about Mike Ashley consulting for Hornby, it describes Hornby as the maker of Thomas the Tank Engine. Once again poor reporting or lack of proper research.

[micklner]

36 minutes ago, 1andrew1 said:

Fraser Group's 8.9% Hornby stake is substantial but Hornby is currently well and truly controlled by Phoenix who own a whopping 73.4% of the company.  It could be that Ashley is a bit bored having handed over managing Frasers Group to his son-in-law, and he certainly doesn't need the money!

Very Early days , money is irrelevant.

[ruggedpeak]

51 minutes ago, 1andrew1 said:

Fraser Group's 8.9% Hornby stake is substantial but Hornby is currently well and truly controlled by Phoenix who own a whopping 73.4% of the company.  It could be that Ashley is a bit bored having handed over managing Frasers Group to his son-in-law, and he certainly doesn't need the money!

He takes a small stake, gets in and does "consultancy" to understand the business and its potential in detail, if it looks a nice proposition for Frasers he will make a tasty offer to Phoenix for them to exit. Hornby is then absorbed into Frasers. If it doesn't stack up he will exit at some point but the sums involved are piddly for him.

 

Don't be shocked if this is all concluded in a matter of weeks with a "sudden" announcement of a takeover or similar. Ashley's team know how to leverage undervalued brands and struggling businesses. It won't be pretty at our end I suspect.

Edited March 20 by ruggedpeak
typo

[The Stationmaster]

The bit that worries me is the asset-stripping reputation of Mr Ashley getting involved in 'strategy' for Hornby.  The share price hasn't reacted to the latest announcement which suggests that snmall onvestors don't yer see much in it and phoenix are staying in there.

 

But what will be most telling is when the Group announces its full results but that is still several months away but there is usually a year end 'Trading Statement' published around the end of April.  Ashley's involvement will have had little or no impact as far as that statement goes because the company's financial year ends at the end of this month.   If the results are good (and various late deliveries of model railway items could have a positive impact on sales the share price might well hold up to something approaching the current level and maybe promises of Ashley tinted 'jam tomorrow' might help.

 

On the ther hand if the results are less than earth shattering (which could happen I suppose) things will be in a rather different ball park and I would put a lot of money on a bet that individual brand results will be getting very close study.   Time will tell but we'll be seeing possibly interestng words from Hornby Group within no more tha 6 weeks if they report to their normal timescales.

[wombatofludham]

It's rather like giving Jack the Ripper a set of top quality Japanese filleting knives and the Met Police watch list of Evening Horizontal Leisure Consultants on the pretext he'll give some advice on combatting prostitution.  Getting "consultancy" access to how Hornby doesn't work is pretty blatant for deciding whether to go in deeper or cut and run.  But hey ho, he has a pretty ruthless reputation and it'll be interesting to see how things progress.  Personally Hornby have long ceased to have any relevance to my modelling needs and sadly I wouldn't miss the company if it is asset stripped.  The name would no doubt be sold on as having probably the biggest value.  However, I have a bit of a dim view of Mr Ashley having read a bit about him although he does know how to make money.

I was shocked to see he was born in Walsall and as someone who emerged into the world at the Manor Hospital in Walsall can I offer my apologies on behalf of the town.

[Combe Martin]

This is creating as much froth as Kate's operation ! 

[BachelorBoy]

 

4 minutes ago, Combe Martin said:

This is creating as much froth as Kate's operation ! 

 

Yes, but this could actually affect modellers' lives.

[teletougos]

I don't know much about him but I assume he wouldn't look well at production schedules having to be constantly juggled as has happened with the TT range.

 

Are people like Ashley interested in new product ranges that will take years to bear fruit and which are likely to present headaches in the meantime ? 

[BachelorBoy]

1 minute ago, teletougos said:

I don't know much about him but I assume he wouldn't look well at production schedules having to be constantly juggled as has happened with the TT range.

 

Are people like Ashley interested in new product ranges that will take years to bear fruit and which are likely to present headaches in the meantime ? 

 

When did Hornby last bear fruit financially?

 

It's lost money for years. Profits are rare.

 

 

[ruggedpeak]

24 minutes ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

When did Hornby last bear fruit financially?

 

It's lost money for years. Profits are rare.

Which is exactly why Ashely and co are taking a stake. They specialise in businesses with a strong brand but weak management who can't turn a meaningful profit from it.

[adb968008]

Its just a fishing trip.

A chance to see whats in the cupboards.

 

They have to be careful showing too much interest, as theres so few shares in the wild, any speculation brings double digit share price moves, and obviously the impact on their investment, just as we saw with their entry, it could do the same if they exit too.

 

[teletougos]

1 hour ago, BachelorBoy said:

 

When did Hornby last bear fruit financially?

 

It's lost money for years. Profits are rare.

 

 

 

 

The question remains.

 

TT has shown pretty amazing early growth.  As predicted it found an obvious niche with folk wanting something more like OO, less like N, in smaller dwellings. Those people fed back that this was its appeal for them. So that guess was right. It's a growing part of the market.

 

But it will be a long time before it returns a profit. 

 

It'd be useful to know what he's done before when confronted with a production range with those characteristics, in a company he's bought.

 

Slow and steady growth with lots of production slot headaches on the way, doesn't sound appealing for someone with his approach or temperament. 

 

 

Edited March 21 by teletougos

[micklner]

Perhaps his interest is totally innocent.

 

All he wants to really do is run his ancient Triang Train set round and round in everdecreasing circles with  the Wagons full of lovely Gold Bars !! It brings back happy memories of  his childhood!!. I wonder where the Gold Bars came from ????.
🤐🫢😇

Edited March 21 by micklner

[Mike Bellamy]

9 minutes ago, micklner said:

Perhaps his interest is totally innocent.

 

All he wants to really do is run his ancient Triang Train set round and round in everdecreasing circles with  the Wagons full of lovely Gold Bars !! It brings back happy memories of  his childhood!!. I wonder where the Gold Bars came from ????.

 

Or does he build Airfix kits in his spare time - or has a Scalextric set up in the loft . . . we need to keep reminding ourselves that Hornby is not just about model railways.

.