Frasers Group (nee Sports Direct) raises stake in Hornby to 9%

[MikeParkin65]

11 minutes ago, Sjcm said:

If Ashley's mob are after it, they must be on their uppers. I wonder just how overextended they are with the whole TT project? A year down the line and they still only have 4? different loco's available? Shouldn't have done the dirty on Heljun methinks.

 

 

15 minutes ago, ColinB said:

Trouble is they can't help it. Perhaps they should read how the shipping container became so popular, from what I read the design was given away for free, to make it universally accepted. You can make just as much money by being first in the market. There is an interesting conversation on the Hornby Forum with yet more assassination of Sam of Sam's Trains for stating what most sensible people are thinking. Hornby have a whole lot of OO releases that they have not made yet, add to that the TT range and a company with limited assets, what could go wrong?

Agree - it seemed initially that there was going to be quite wide eco system supporting the launch of TT that might attract the existing modeler looking for a change as well as the new entrant. Now its looking very different with much promised but relatively little delivered (unless you want LNER pacifics, Midland Railway buildings, MK's and Pullman cars) with the prospect of further 'greatest hits' from the OO range. They needed either to have hit the floor running OR worked with other parts of the industry to everyones mutual advantage.

[Longhaireddavid]

I was quite excited when they announced TT:120. I was close to dropping out of US outline but I don't want a railway that can only run fancy express trains and shunt goods wagons. I went to OO and GWR and mostly Bachmann locos and wagons.

[Steamport Southport]

Oh dear it's turned into a "Let's knock TT thread"...

 

May I ask how long it took for N Gauge to have a coherent range? Graham Farish only had about four locomotives in their entire range for about ten years!

 

Get things into perspective. It's only been going for 18 months or so!

 

 

As for Ashley buying shares. That's what he does. He buys them cheap and flogs them for a profit. Look at Newcastle United for evidence. Now probably more successful financially than they've ever been. 

 

If Hornby was in trouble he would have offered them a pound for it. He's done that before now.

 

 

Jason

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

Oh dear it's turned into a "Let's knock TT thread"...

 

May I ask how long it took for N Gauge to have a coherent range? Graham Farish only had about four locomotives in their entire range for about ten years!

 

Get things into perspective. It's only been going for 18 months or so!

 

 

As for Ashley buying shares. That's what he does. He buys them cheap and flogs them for a profit. Look at Newcastle United for evidence. Now probably more successful financially than they've ever been. 

 

If Hornby was in trouble he would have offered them a pound for it. He's done that before now.

 

 

Jason

Newcastle is more successful financially no thanks to Ashley. Every season they hovered about the relegation zone because he wouldn't invest any money. Hornby are not in that much trouble yet, so he doesn't need to offer the pound for it, that will come much later.

[adb968008]

I think we need some perspective…

 

its not new money.

its just a trade between one minority shareholder and another, Hornby may not even be consulted in it beyond the admin.

 

if Artemis wanted out, they could have sold the lot.

if Phoenix wanted greater control, they could have bought out Artemis’s share.

if HoF was really interested in gaining influence could they just not have bought the full Artemis stake ?

 

None of it happened.... 

 

if this was a calve off by Phoenix then i’d sit up and take notice, but to me unless he mounts a takeover bid ( which I reckon is unlikely, but he might get vocal if things turn sour), then maybe its just a punt on his behalf, maybe influenced by recent news media reports of hobby demise, which he may flip anytime…

 

who knows maybe he’s an enthusiast and wants to own a Deltic like the other sports shop owner once did ?

 

Tbh I dont read much into this, atm.
 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26 by adb968008

[Mike Bellamy]

 

Going back to the original announcement . . . . . . . 

1. I had no idea that Game was part of Frasers

2. I had no idea that Game stores were stockists of Hornby products - their website only lists four items !!

 

https://www.game.co.uk/en/brands/Hornby/

 

EDIT to add that Scalextric have 13 products, Corgi 7 and although they have an Airfix page, they don't stock any of their products.

.

Edited February 27 by Mike Bellamy

[micklner]

19 minutes ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

Going back to the original announcement . . . . . . . 

1. I had no idea that Game was part of Frasers

2. I had no idea that Game stores were stockists of Hornby products - their website only lists four items !!

 

https://www.game.co.uk/en/brands/Hornby/

 

EDIT to add that Scalextric have 13 products, Corgi 7 and although they have an Airfix page, they don't stock any of their products.

.

Fraser Credit Card while you a here ?? @ 39% interest a.p.r , what a bargain !! Game did have a shop in Lakeside as well , one guess it shut .           

 

Ashley works wonders .

 

[JohnR]

12 minutes ago, micklner said:

Fraser Credit Card while you a here ?? @ 39% interest a.p.r , what a bargain !! Game did have a shop in Lakeside as well , one guess it shut .           

 

Ashley works wonders .

 

 

39% is a typical APR for many such store cards, and I doubt Ashley has increased it. 

[Deano]

He’s a businessman and makes money on the back of people losing money. He’s not the first and won’t be the last. It’s just a shame so many companies and trades have disappeared through companies gambling on borrowed money, lining a company with debt and failing.

[ColinB]

1 hour ago, micklner said:

Fraser Credit Card while you a here ?? @ 39% interest a.p.r , what a bargain !! Game did have a shop in Lakeside as well , one guess it shut .           

 

Ashley works wonders .

 

I didn't even know it was shut, I did notice that Sports Direct was no longer there, didn't he buy Lilliwhites and close it. As to the credit card I think the other storecards are about 29.9%, so it is a lot higher. 

[ColinB]

2 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

Going back to the original announcement . . . . . . . 

1. I had no idea that Game was part of Frasers

2. I had no idea that Game stores were stockists of Hornby products - their website only lists four items !!

 

https://www.game.co.uk/en/brands/Hornby/

 

EDIT to add that Scalextric have 13 products, Corgi 7 and although they have an Airfix page, they don't stock any of their products.

.

That is interesting, I was talking to a Model Shop owner and he was saying he was offered TT120 to sell but he had to buy the whole of the range. He said he could shift a few items but not the lot.

[JohnR]

7 minutes ago, ColinB said:

That is interesting, I was talking to a Model Shop owner and he was saying he was offered TT120 to sell but he had to buy the whole of the range. He said he could shift a few items but not the lot.

 

Game isnt stocking TT120. However, I suspect they may well do so, given that they can afford to stock the entire range (which makes sense from a Hornby point of view)

[rovex]

On 23/02/2024 at 20:53, Matt said:

What they need to do is convert some of those empty HOF stores into model shops- Jenners in Edinburgh would be a good start. I’m sure it would work……

 

There’s a reason I don’t work in retail….

Now that would be a model shop!

[BachelorBoy]

21 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Oh dear it's turned into a "Let's knock TT thread"...

Not really. It's the usual scepticism about Hornby's abilities to make TT a success.

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 23/02/2024 at 20:53, Matt said:

What they need to do is convert some of those empty HOF stores into model shops- Jenners in Edinburgh would be a good start. I’m sure it would work……

 

There’s a reason I don’t work in retail….

Rackhams on Birmingham used to have model railways in the toy department on the third floor. That counter closed long before Ashley got involved.

Edited February 27 by TheSignalEngineer

[osbornsmodels]

Quote

That is interesting, I was talking to a Model Shop owner and he was saying he was offered TT120 to sell but he had to buy the whole of the range. He said he could shift a few items but not the lot.

not correct.

[Bulleidboy100]

Perhaps Ashley gets his advice from Sam!

[JohnR]

He's doubled his money already - price at the moment is 40p

[ColinB]

21 hours ago, osbornsmodels said:

not correct.

Really, so why would he tell me that ?

[melmoth]

2 hours ago, ColinB said:

Really, so why would he tell me that ?

 

Without knowing the nature of your relationship with the retailer you spoke to, I can think of these off the top of my head.

 

1. The retailer was mistaken/misinterpreted the information they received from Hornby.

2. The information from Hornby was correct at the time, but the policy had changed either before or was changed after that, meaning that both are right: i.e. different information was given to different retailers at different times.

3. Your retailer might simply not want to stock any of the range for commercial reasons best known to themselves, but do not see the need to elaborate on that to a customer.

 

Plenty of others I'm sure.

[ColinB]

Just now, melmoth said:

 

Without knowing the nature of your relationship with the retailer you spoke to, I can think of these off the top of my head.

 

1. The retailer was mistaken/misinterpreted the information they received from Hornby.

2. The information from Hornby was correct at the time, but the policy had changed either before or was changed after that, meaning that both are right: i.e. different information was given to different retailers at different times.

3. Your retailer might simply not want to stock any of the range for commercial reasons best known to themselves, but do not see the need to elaborate on that to a customer.

 

Plenty of others I'm sure.

I suspect 1 and 2 are probably correct, 3 he would have said. He said he was interested in buying a few pieces. He definitely wouldn't be interested in track, he only sells Peco track.  

[osbornsmodels]

Quote

2. The information from Hornby was correct at the time, but the policy had changed either before or was changed after that, meaning that both are right: i.e. different information was given to different retailers at different times.

is probably the answer why Colin's  model shops info. was out of date. It is true that the initial offer to selected retailers did expect the full range to be stocked and a demo layout installed. Obviously that was unrealistic in most already cramped model shops and somewhere along the line the policy was quietly changed. We have obtained items of rolling stock but availability is restricted by what is available in the warehouse at any one time and that includes Arnold items which sell through very quickly as well it seems.

Hope that clears things up.

[JohnR]

There may also be a difference between who is an "Official Stockist" and who is not. 

 

[ColinB]

18 hours ago, JohnR said:

He's doubled his money already - price at the moment is 40p

You really do need to read about the dot com boom, shares were doubling overnight for no apparent reason other than someone had invested in them. Speculators were frightened they would miss out on a Microsoft or Apple type company nor realising that for every Microsoft there are loads of software companies that never made it. Probably the share price went up because investors thought like me, "why is he investing in that company, does he know something we don't " but then if he sells his shares they will "flat line", but he will have made a ton of money. It is sophisticated gambling, unfortunately long term business suffers because often they are run just to increase their share price which generally ends up with failure.

[Clearwater]

32 minutes ago, ColinB said:

You really do need to read about the dot com boom, shares were doubling overnight for no apparent reason other than someone had invested in them. Speculators were frightened they would miss out on a Microsoft or Apple type company nor realising that for every Microsoft there are loads of software companies that never made it. Probably the share price went up because investors thought like me, "why is he investing in that company, does he know something we don't " but then if he sells his shares they will "flat line", but he will have made a ton of money. It is sophisticated gambling, unfortunately long term business suffers because often they are run just to increase their share price which generally ends up with failure.

 

 

It's also a micro cap and thinly traded hence the price jumps massively particularly when a serious player like Ashley rocks-up.  There's a mix of FOMO and "me too" going on.  If you have a large amount of capital to deploy, then even 2.5% of Hornby at the new price is £1.5m.  For some managers, a bet to double that £1.5m alongside someone who they think they know what they doing is one worth taking.