Easy garage upgrades to accommodate a layout

[Olive_Green1923]

Appreciate the topic of garage layout rooms has been covered in a few threads, however, these often get bogged down in discussions about planning, building regs and structural work for conversions.

 

However, as I'm not looking to "convert" my garage, I don't think the above is applicable. Instead, I'm just looking to do DIY upgrades that will make it a slightly warmer and more habitable room which will be used as a workshop and layout room, and as a back-up can still accommodate a car.

 

The garage is a detached new-build with double skin, gable roof, wooden and metal frame door and one double glazed window, so I am off to a good start in the scheme of things. I have already installed insulation foil on to the main door and I plan to put down EVA tiles which will hopefully provide some insulation from the concrete floor, not to mention a nicer surface to stand on. I also plan to make the garage door draught-proof.

 

There is then of course the option of filling the cavity wall with polystyrene beads or building a new internal wall with timbers and Celotex - but I would rather avoid the latter as it will reduce space and increase cost. There is also the option of putting in a ceiling with rockwool on top (which would also create a useful attic space) or attaching foil on the inside of the gable roof - but of course these two options would also be costly.

 

Short of putting in some heaters (which I may do anyway), I'd be interested to hear any other DIY measures I could take which will make the room warmer and more habitable for a layout.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Edited March 12 by Olive_Green1923

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Sounds like a good plan. Using 50mm Kingspan, Celotex and the like (salvaged!) to insulate the roof and walls transformed the single brick skin wall outbuilding that is my layout room into a place of year round comfort. Did the roof first, huge improvement in summer, much cooler; but still chilly in winter. So then did the walls, and losing four inches from the inside dimensions was a very worthwhile compromise, it remains a good big space.

 

You are further ahead with a double skin wall construction allowing insulation to be installed there, so can probably use less or no internal wall insulation. I use no heating, left my floor as painted concrete, and simply dress warm as required, (wearing thermal socks and old walking boots at present ). Just like watching the trains in winter when a youngster, except I now stay warm.

[Richard_A]

How do you know if there isnt any insulation in the cavity already? 

 

I'd be tempted to find an area which has a brick or part block, stitch drill out the mortar, this will enable you to remove the block /brick and see what's there or isn't there before you decide on any internal insulation. 

[Peter Seager-Thomas]

Garages become much more friendly if they are carpeted. Second-hand stuff of course......

[doilum]

If headroom isn’t an issue consider a full chipboard floor. Use the green type designed for kitchens and bathrooms and lay it on pressure treated battens.

This makes it not only warmer but also future proofs it against any ingress of water after heavy rain. It also should take care of draughty up and over doors.

[ISW]

4 hours ago, Olive_Green1923 said:

I'd be interested to hear any other DIY measures I could take which will make the room warmer and more habitable for a layout.

I'd be looking to put in a dehumidifier (or 2?), possibly instead of a heater (or at least one of them). Not only do they reduce the water vapour but also kick out a reasonable amount of heat. A win-win of sorts.

 

I have an attic (of sorts) in my garage, but it's not for a layout, just to keep the car. I just added some cheap plywood to the rafters to create plenty of storage space. It won't take my weight, but is useful nonetheless. I just had to make sure I had 'reachable' access to all areas.

 

Putting something 'soft' on the concrete floor is a must for me. I do some DIY in the garage and the concrete floor was a pain (pun intended). I just threw down some cardboard, and that softened it just enough, plus it soaks up any water dripping off a wet car. 

 

Ian

[cctransuk]

7 minutes ago, ISW said:

I'd be looking to put in a dehumidifier (or 2?), possibly instead of a heater (or at least one of them). Not only do they reduce the water vapour but also kick out a reasonable amount of heat.

 

My garage conversion was fairly comprehensive (and expensive) - drylined on battens with insulation; insulated ceiling; water barrier, battens and ply to the floor - which is finished with wood-effect vinyl.

 

It has an automatic dewpoint extractor fan fitted, which trips in before condensation can form. This, with a thermostatically controlled background oil-filled radiator ensures that there is no possibility of dampness, and the temperature can be raised to comfort level within ten minutes when in use.

 

As I have said, not cheap - but worth every penny when converting a garage into a 'model railway salon'! 😀

 

CJI.

[chris p bacon]

4 hours ago, Olive_Green1923 said:

However, as I'm not looking to "convert" my garage, I don't think the above is applicable. Instead, I'm just looking to do DIY upgrades that will make it a slightly warmer and more habitable room which will be used as a workshop and layout room, and as a back-up can still accommodate a car.

 

The garage is a new-build with double skin, gable roof, metal door and one double glazed window, so I am off to a good start in the scheme of things. I have already bought insulation foil for the main metal door and I plan to put down EVA tiles which will hopefully provide some insulation from the concrete floor, not to mention a nicer surface to stand on. I also plan to make the garage door draught-proof.

 

There is then of course the option of filling the cavity wall with polystyrene beads or building a new internal wall with timbers and Celotex - but I would rather avoid the latter as it will reduce space and increase cost. There is also the option of putting in a ceiling with rockwool on top (which would also create a useful attic space) or attaching foil on the inside of the gable roof - but of course these two options would also be costly.

 

Short of putting in some heaters (which I may do anyway), I'd be interested to hear any other DIY measures I could take which will make the room warmer and more habitable for a layout.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

is your garage part of the house? If so it would explain a cavity, if not I would not expect your garage to be built that way. If you have exterior brick and internal block it may just be 9” construction.
If there is a cavity that does not have insulation there may be a reason why not, by using the wrong material you may bridge the cavity allowing moisture into the inner skin. Also you mention a ceiling with insulation above and introducing a heater, again if your garage is part of the house be careful of a build up of moisture/vapour

 

46 minutes ago, doilum said:

future proofs it against any ingress of water after heavy rain.

Garage floors are not level and must drain towards the main door. This in case of a fuel leak and stops it pooling inside the garage.

 

Quote

Appreciate the topic of garage layout rooms has been covered in a few threads, however, these often get bogged down in discussions about planning, building regs and structural work for conversions

Building regs are there for a reason, ignoring them can be costly.

[Olive_Green1923]

3 hours ago, Richard_A said:

How do you know if there isnt any insulation in the cavity already? 

 

I'd be tempted to find an area which has a brick or part block, stitch drill out the mortar, this will enable you to remove the block /brick and see what's there or isn't there before you decide on any internal insulation. 

Although there are sofits around the roof, when going up a ladder you can (just) look down into the cavity on the inside, which is empty.

Edited March 12 by Olive_Green1923

[Olive_Green1923]

12 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

is your garage part of the house? If so it would explain a cavity, if not I would not expect your garage to be built that way. If you have exterior brick and internal block it may just be 9” construction.
If there is a cavity that does not have insulation there may be a reason why not, by using the wrong material you may bridge the cavity allowing moisture into the inner skin. Also you mention a ceiling with insulation above and introducing a heater, again if your garage is part of the house be careful of a build up of moisture/vapour

 

Garage floors are not level and must drain towards the main door. This in case of a fuel leak and stops it pooling inside the garage.

 

Building regs are there for a reason, ignoring them can be costly.

The garage is detached. It has a c.5cm cavity (which I can look into from the top), hence the possible option of polystyrene beads. Apparently they are quite effective and do not allow the transfer of moisture. In any case, I would rather avoid the expense, although I do have a bloke coming this week to do quotes.

Edited March 13 by Olive_Green1923

[wasdavetheroad]

If you decide to have a dehumidifier buy the dessicating type, they work well down to low temperatures. Mine mantains a steady 40% humidity and contributes a little toward frost protection. 

[Enterprisingwestern]

11 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

is your garage part of the house? If so it would explain a cavity, if not I would not expect your garage to be built that way. If you have exterior brick and internal block it may just be 9” construction.
If there is a cavity that does not have insulation there may be a reason why not, by using the wrong material you may bridge the cavity allowing moisture into the inner skin. Also you mention a ceiling with insulation above and introducing a heater, again if your garage is part of the house be careful of a build up of moisture/vapour

 

Garage floors are not level and must drain towards the main door. This in case of a fuel leak and stops it pooling inside the garage.

 

Building regs are there for a reason, ignoring them can be costly.

 

Of course, being devils advocate, yours and my experience in the construction industry might prove or disprove that theory?!!

 

Mike.

[chris p bacon]

22 hours ago, Olive_Green1923 said:

The garage is detached. It has a c.5cm cavity (which I can look into from the top), hence the possible option of polystyrene beads. Apparently they are quite effective and do not allow the transfer of moisture. In any case, I would rather avoid the expense, although I do have a bloke coming this week to do quotes.

Why on earth did they go to the extra expense of building a detached garage with a 50mm cavity? It doesn’t meet current spec and would have cost more than a simple 9” build. 

[Olive_Green1923]

46 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

Why on earth did they go to the extra expense of building a detached garage with a 50mm cavity? It doesn’t meet current spec and would have cost more than a simple 9” build. 

It’s not something I specifically discussed with the builders / architect, but the (small) development as a whole is fairly high-spec and all the garages are double skin - I don’t know whether this is common practice in new-builds nowadays.

Edited March 13 by Olive_Green1923

[DCB]

 

On 12/03/2024 at 16:19, Olive_Green1923 said:

I'm just looking to do DIY upgrades that will make it a slightly warmer and more habitable room which will be used as a workshop and layout room, and as a back-up can still accommodate a car.

 That narrows down the options,  If it was to become a "Habitable Room" it would be different.    Common sense suggests that you would need decent ventilation  if you store a working car in a building, ( Building regulation probably disagree )   What you do need is a walk in door rather than open the whole Vehicle door to limit the heat loss entering and leaving.  Shutters to block the window would be good, or a really good black out blind,  keeping the layout dark helps keep the track clean.   I personally feel cavity wall insulation is a waste of effort, it's fine when new but  long term at least air does not get waterlogged and it is a good insulator. With hopefully a brick or block inner skin and concrete floor  you have something solid to attach the layout to, my purpose built wooden shed needs jacking up every now and again and flexes which means adjusting baseboard heights to stop coaches rolling away on the "Level" bits. But don't assume the floor is level, it probably is, within 1%   1 in 100 but that 1% changes a 1 in 50 grade to 1 in 33  or 1 in 66.  Carpets and cars don't really mix so make sure you can roll it up when you garage the car,   Laminate flooring does not  take the weight of a car well either.   I am working on plans for putting a test track in my  garage so we can run out 2010 era 00 Scottish stock.  Awkward bit to plan is the lifting sections to allow a car in without extensive dismantling  and where to move the tools etc to..

[Olive_Green1923]

4 hours ago, DCB said:

 

 That narrows down the options,  If it was to become a "Habitable Room" it would be different.    Common sense suggests that you would need decent ventilation  if you store a working car in a building, ( Building regulation probably disagree )   What you do need is a walk in door rather than open the whole Vehicle door to limit the heat loss entering and leaving.  Shutters to block the window would be good, or a really good black out blind,  keeping the layout dark helps keep the track clean.   I personally feel cavity wall insulation is a waste of effort, it's fine when new but  long term at least air does not get waterlogged and it is a good insulator. With hopefully a brick or block inner skin and concrete floor  you have something solid to attach the layout to, my purpose built wooden shed needs jacking up every now and again and flexes which means adjusting baseboard heights to stop coaches rolling away on the "Level" bits. But don't assume the floor is level, it probably is, within 1%   1 in 100 but that 1% changes a 1 in 50 grade to 1 in 33  or 1 in 66.  Carpets and cars don't really mix so make sure you can roll it up when you garage the car,   Laminate flooring does not  take the weight of a car well either.   I am working on plans for putting a test track in my  garage so we can run out 2010 era 00 Scottish stock.  Awkward bit to plan is the lifting sections to allow a car in without extensive dismantling  and where to move the tools etc to..

Thanks. I have a side door as well which I forgot to mention. The main door will largely remain redundant.

[Olive_Green1923]

11 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Why on earth did they go to the extra expense of building a detached garage with a 50mm cavity? It doesn’t meet current spec and would have cost more than a simple 9” build. 

I should clarify that it is probably more towards 100mm. I haven’t actually measured it, but 100mm is more likely from looking at it again.

[Andymsa]

4 hours ago, DCB said:

 

 .  Shutters to block the window would be good, or a really good black out blind,  keeping the layout dark helps keep the track clean.

I not heard this mentioned before, could you elaborate a bit more regarding how keeping things dark keeps the track more clean

[Harlequin]

Hi "Olive" 😄,

 

From your description it sounds like a very usable building.

 

If you can insulate the cavity (take advice on whether that might cause damp problems) then you wouldn't need to insulate the walls internally. That would give you more room and make it easier to fix the layout to the walls.

 

The garage door would need something semi-permanent built inside the opening to seal it up from drafts and insulate that end of the space.

 

The roof structure needs to be insulated and the internal surface sealed to the internal wall leaf to stop drafts from blowing under the eaves and into the space.  BUT make sure that the roof timbers themselves are still ventilated and can "breath". Again take advice.

 

A simple wood frame in-filled with insulation boards and covered in OSB on the floor will make that a bit warmer to stand on. It doesn't matter if the floor's not level because you will level the baseboards independently. When creating the floor frame you might want to allow for baseboard legs to extend right down to the concrete for good solid support.

 

[Olive_Green1923]

27 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Hi "Olive" 😄,

 

From your description it sounds like a very usable building.

 

If you can insulate the cavity (take advice on whether that might cause damp problems) then you wouldn't need to insulate the walls internally. That would give you more room and make it easier to fix the layout to the walls.

 

The garage door would need something semi-permanent built inside the opening to seal it up from drafts and insulate that end of the space.

 

The roof structure needs to be insulated and the internal surface sealed to the internal wall leaf to stop drafts from blowing under the eaves and into the space.  BUT make sure that the roof timbers themselves are still ventilated and can "breath". Again take advice.

 

A simple wood frame in-filled with insulation boards and covered in OSB on the floor will make that a bit warmer to stand on. It doesn't matter if the floor's not level because you will level the baseboards independently. When creating the floor frame you might want to allow for baseboard legs to extend right down to the concrete for good solid support.

 

Great advice. Thanks.

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

The garage door would need something semi-permanent built inside the opening to seal it up from drafts and insulate that end of the space.

 

I junked my up and over door and replaced it with a wooden 2 leaf opener, also means you can get wall shelving right up to the door, which was the main reason I did it, the garage wasn't in use as a railway room regrettably.

 

Mike.

[The Fatadder]

For me I ended up going down the route of adding wooden batons / insulation / plasterboard along with a ceiling and insulation in the roof.  What I still havent got round to after 10 years is changing the garage door.  At the moment I have fitted better seals around the edge and glued sheets of 1.5inch insulation to the inside of the door.  but its far from ideal.  My aim has always been to fit a pair of insulated side opening doors eventually, only issue being they are quite expensive and other priorities keep getting in the way.

 

My logic is with a side opening door you can get into the garage easier when the weather isnt great without exposing the layout to the weather.  It also gives you an extra foot or so of layout space as you can build right up to the door.

[cctransuk]

38 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

For me I ended up going down the route of adding wooden batons / insulation / plasterboard along with a ceiling and insulation in the roof.  What I still havent got round to after 10 years is changing the garage door.  At the moment I have fitted better seals around the edge and glued sheets of 1.5inch insulation to the inside of the door.  but its far from ideal.  My aim has always been to fit a pair of insulated side opening doors eventually, only issue being they are quite expensive and other priorities keep getting in the way.

 

My logic is with a side opening door you can get into the garage easier when the weather isnt great without exposing the layout to the weather.  It also gives you an extra foot or so of layout space as you can build right up to the door.

 

My garage having a separate side door into the garden, the up-and-over door is still in-situ, but sealed.

 

A heavy, waterproof membrane was sealed onto the threshold outside the door, and then taken up inside and behind the door, sealed onto the adjacent brickwork.

 

This has proved to be totally draft and water-proof.

 

CJI.

[DCB]

4 hours ago, Andymsa said:

I not heard this mentioned before, could you elaborate a bit more regarding how keeping things dark keeps the track more clean

Father in Law's railway shed is 23 ft 6" X  7ft 6" usable size, It is OO and about 16ft X 2 ft is hidden sidings under a station board most of the upper surface has tracks and there are windows at the ends and in the side door adjacent to the lifting section.  Generally the blinds are down but its not entirely dark and the lifting section is generally in daylight from the gap between blind and wall.

The lifting section track often needs cleaning with a track rubber,to stop trains stuttering. the main top surface occasionally gets cleaned with a track rubber to stop trains stuttering and the underneath section never gets cleaned from one decade to the next apart from an occasional towed track cleaning rubber on the main lines.     My loft layout with no windows seldom needed the track cleaned,   It just seems there is a link between sunlight/ daylight and track getting dirty,

[Andymsa]

1 hour ago, DCB said:

Father in Law's railway shed is 23 ft 6" X  7ft 6" usable size, It is OO and about 16ft X 2 ft is hidden sidings under a station board most of the upper surface has tracks and there are windows at the ends and in the side door adjacent to the lifting section.  Generally the blinds are down but its not entirely dark and the lifting section is generally in daylight from the gap between blind and wall.

The lifting section track often needs cleaning with a track rubber,to stop trains stuttering. the main top surface occasionally gets cleaned with a track rubber to stop trains stuttering and the underneath section never gets cleaned from one decade to the next apart from an occasional towed track cleaning rubber on the main lines.     My loft layout with no windows seldom needed the track cleaned,   It just seems there is a link between sunlight/ daylight and track getting dirty,

Thanks for the reply, it’s interesting to note the difference in the section in light. Before I built the extension to the railway building I had blinds but like you not fully keeping light out. Now I have blinds that completely keep light out so it will be interesting to see if the theory holds