A shelf too far ...

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi folks,

 

Further to the shelving (no pun intended) of my layout design based on West Kirby I have finalised the space I have available for a layout at home. The maximum space available is 2000 x 200 mm; the length is dictated by the length of the room, while the width is restricted by the board not being 'allowed' to obstruct the window or the door into the room.

 

I have doodled a few designs but none of these have been really practical or satisfactory (the main problem being due to the lack of width). Any suggestions, ideas, etc, would be appreciated.

 

The scale and gauge are 00. The period I would be modelling is mid '80s through early '90s. The area would be central Scotland through to Cumbria. I have some stock that covers these times and places. There would be no passenger facilities.

 

Again, any design suggestions would be appreciated. Once something gets decided and under way, I will start a new thread on the 'Layouts' section of the forum.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[shortliner]

Hi folks,

 

Further to the shelving (no pun intended) of my layout design based on West Kirby I have finalised the space I have available for a layout at home. The maximum space available is 2000 x 200 mm; the length is dictated by the length of the room, while the width is restricted by the board not being 'allowed' to obstruct the window or the door into the room.

 

I have doodled a few designs but none of these have been really practical or satisfactory (the main problem being due to the lack of width). Any suggestions, ideas, etc, would be appreciated.

 

The scale and gauge are 00. The period I would be modelling is mid '80s through early '90s. The area would be central Scotland through to Cumbria. I have some stock that covers these times and places. There would be no passenger facilities.

 

Again, any design suggestions would be appreciated. Once something gets decided and under way, I will start a new thread on the 'Layouts' section of the forum.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

 

Alex - what scale? EDIT - IGNORE - BLIND AS A BAT!

[Mucky Duck]

Alex, it may be a stupid question but can you have a 'curvy' shelf and vary the width at certain points along its length?

Do you have a plan of the room with position of the window and door?

[Coombe Barton]

Is there a possibility of a two height layout? Something like a viaduct with some goods/industrial stuff happening underneath?

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi gents,

 

Thanks for the questions:

 

1. The 200mm is a fixed limit due to the other uses of the room; anything wider would interfere.

 

2. Two heights would not be out of the question; it's something I hadn't thought about.

 

Thanks again.

 

Alex.

 

PS. I would not be running anything longer than a 37, although most of the locos I have are smaller types such as 20, 26, etc. There is no bogie rolling stock.

[Guest baldrick25]

Something original like a two height shelf , with a Glasgow underground below, and part of a Glasgow mainline above. With the underground on a electronic 'end' detector and reverser, it could be arranged for a regular pass of the viewing point. Above ground , Glasow gives quite a choice of traction to be shown.

[F-UnitMad]

Something original like a two height shelf , with a Glasgow underground below, and part of a Glasgow mainline above. With the underground on a electronic 'end' detector and reverser, it could be arranged for a regular pass of the viewing point. Above ground , Glasow gives quite a choice of traction to be shown.

Reminds me of a layout "Glasgow Emerald" in British HO by Andrew Knights. It had a two-platform terminus on the high level, above a small goods yard. It was in the Jan 2006 Railway Modeller. Here's a You-tube link; see it from 3m:00s onwards

 

[Del]

Glasgow Emerald is *exactly* what I was going to suggest.

Giles Barnabe did something similar in MTI a few issues back, on three sheets of A4 which could be easily extended I'm sure. I'm away from my library just now but I'm sure Jack will know the one I mean.

[Donw]

Some years ago there was a feature in RM - railway on a bookcase I seem to remember this used a 10" plank something similar would work. A single track with two crossovers in opposite directions a siding running each way from the crossovers gives run round facilities and sidings in eah direction makes for more shunting moves. A slight curve make it look much more natural.

Donw

[Guest Austerity94]

HI folks,

 

Thanks for the continuing suggestions. This width limitation is a real pain. I have even thought about using a couple of box-files or some "SNACK" boxes but with their height reduced. The head scratching continues.

 

Thanks for the suggestions about Glasgow Emerald - I like the idea and liked the video link too - thanks.

 

Two levels, with Glasgow Underground - now that does appeal to me, but how to motorise one of those trains? I have the drawings of the last of the gated electric stock (and a few books on the line) and I reckon that a Bachmann 'Gandy Dancer' may just fit. For my period, though, I would need a 'Clockwork Orange' but I cannot find any scale drawings of them, although I do have some very basic dimensions and layout drawings but these are not to scale.

 

One thought, from the given suggestions, would be a small shunting layout on an elevated section with a Sprinter shuttling in and out of a terminus below this. At least with the period in question I could still make use of 150/2s.

 

Someone else has suggested, offline, that an adaptation of Ian Futers' 'Lochty Road' may be useful as it would allow me to run a wider variety of locos running in and out of view.

 

Further thoughts and suggestions are more than welcome.

 

Again, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

PS. Donw - almost forgot - can you remember the edition or the name of the layout? Thanks.

[Steve K]

Reminds me of a layout "Glasgow Emerald" in British HO by Andrew Knights.

Or, "What to do with all those Lima 33s I've collected..."!

[Stubby47]

Another idea for a split level layout is Wheal Tiny. Although this was 7mm narrow gauge, the same concept could be done with 37s delivering coal/mineral wagons which are then hoisted down to a lower level dock area.

 

Stu

[puffernutter]

I really like that Glasgow Emerald layout - bilevel plans rarely work well as a cohesive whole but that looks smashing. I particularly like the water tank supports still in situ.

 

A long-thin space is pretty much perfect for prototypical station layouts, but not so much for goods areas. Bloody siding fans!

[Etched Pixels]

There are long thin siding examples where practical considerations such as land availability forced it - look at a few docksides and piers where you'll get things like several short sidings off one long spur rather than parallel sidings.

[F-UnitMad]

I really like that Glasgow Emerald layout - bilevel plans rarely work well as a cohesive whole but that looks smashing. I particularly like the water tank supports still in situ.

 

IIRC from the RM article those supports were supposed to represent where the High Level Signal Box "was" prior to demolition as a result of "re-signalling" work...

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi again,

 

Thanks again for the continuing observations and suggestions.

 

The suggestion referring to docks sparked a few thoughts. I have photos, taken in 2006, of the remaining track at what is now Victoria Quay in Leith. It is long and very narrow. I remember looking at archive pics of the area when I lived in Newhaven (the one on the edge of Edinburgh) and there was little space to move. The lines into that part of Leith came, if I remember correctly, from the former Leith Citadel station. The western end fed into the former Caley lines at Leith North and on to Granton thn south into the west end of Edinburgh (around the Murrayfield/Roseburn area).

 

A model of here would have the quayside as the front edge and long, low, warehouses to form the backscene. I assume that the original would have been shunted by Y9s or similar.

 

If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post a few shots (once I can find them).

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

PS. Any thoughts on how that would look with a 26 screeching through the pointwork?

[backwaterscotland]

The suggestion referring to docks sparked a few thoughts. I have photos, taken in 2006, of the remaining track at what is now Victoria Quay in Leith. It is long and very narrow. I remember looking at archive pics of the area when I lived in Newhaven (the one on the edge of Edinburgh) and there was little space to move. The lines into that part of Leith came, if I remember correctly, from the former Leith Citadel station. The western end fed into the former Caley lines at Leith North and on to Granton thn south into the west end of Edinburgh (around the Murrayfield/Roseburn area).

PS. Any thoughts on how that would look with a 26 screeching through the pointwork?

 

These might help for that - 1925 map of Leith showing the a lot of the rail sidings : Edinphoto

 

Andy B)

[Zero Gravitas]

Hi Mickey,

 

I recall an Industrial design by ( i think) Iain Rice that was a on 3 shelves with a cassette fiddle yard at one end to allow transfer of short trains from one level to the other...

 

In this way you get a layout equal to 12ft long into a linear space of 4 feet and room for the cassette within your alloted area

 

 

Yes, it's in "Designs for Urban Layouts" (ISBN 1 902877 08 2) 2nd Impression May 2003 pages 41-42.

 

I'm pretty sure this is out of print now, but does appear on ebay from time to time. There's lots in there that could be adapted for Austerity94's purpose.

 

Best Regards,

 

Zero Gravitas.

[spionkop]

Hi Austerity94

 

Shame that you have been forced to drop the proposed layout of West Kirby, where I was brought up.

 

If you went a mile or so from the Joint station in WK you would come to Kirby Park,a suitable subject for a narrow layout. This was a single platform station with a small goods yard for coal. You could transfer the general goods from the yard to Kirby Park. This yard is now under the Concourse with the Library, swimming pool etc.

 

The background would be houses, the CoE school and St Bridget's church.

No signal box nor signals that I can remember!

 

There is a fair amount of info available as this became the Wirral Way in the late 1960s.

 

I propose to borrow the track layout from the Joint station as part of an unbuilt brach of the WHL.

 

Hope that you had a good holiday N of the Border

 

Spionkop

 

PS If you are a royalist, you could run the Royal Train through Kirby Park as it passed through in the 1950s en route to Wallasey.

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi again folks,

 

Some further interesting ideas here; thanks for those.

 

The idea of a north Edinburgh layout does appeal, especially around the Victoria Quay area. There have been a number of layouts based in the general area including adaptations of Scotland Street yard and Leith Citadel. Incidentally VQ connected with the mainline by crossing Commercial Street into the Citadel. This layout would really require very small locos such as ex-LNER Y9s or NBL four wheel diesels (which adds more ideas to my 'I quite fancy building one of those' list).

 

The Iain Rice book is really good. Although I do not have a copy I have read it at one time and would recommend it to anyone to read.

 

Spionkop - I hadn't thought of sticking with the same general area but moving a little up-the-road. My in-laws live near WK so I have a base for exploration. If I remember correctly one of the stations is 'preserved'. I also seem to remember someone doing a model of Thurstaston in either EM or P4. WK will crop up again but only when I have the space to do it justice (and probably a few DMUs or EMUs too).

 

One idea that did develop was a NCB workshop - i.e. a glorified loco depot with a number of 'odd' wagons running around too. Decided to leave that one as, no matter what I did, I always wanted to add the frames, washery and screens too ...

 

At present the scribblings I have made are moving in the rather 'dull' direction of a fuelling point. That said, I am looking at a 1950s style depot along the lines of a converted 1940/50s style steam shed or a purpose built shed along the lines of those built for the ER/LMR. This would also allow me to add to and run my small collection of plain green diesels. I have the Irwell book on early diesel depots but could really do with being pointed in the direction of some elevations of suitable buildings.

 

Any thoughts on this latter development, especially pointers to building drawings, would be welcome.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[shortliner]

Would it be possible to have a wider, removable section at the front attached with hinges (with removable pins?It could be supported on a Pull-out arm - like those that were fitted to old drop-front writing desks

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi again folks,

 

Shortliner, that's an interesting idea! Although I am initially wary of adding hinges and such, I'll give it some thought as it may prove to be the way of gaining depth for some additional, low-relief, scenery. For simplicity, I would then leave the track on the 'fixed' shelf.

 

On a practical note, have you and ideas where those extending arms, or similar, could be obtained?

 

Again, thanks.

 

regards,

 

Alex.

[shortliner]

Well, you COULD use a drawer runner from B&Q or similar - Id use a length of square or rectangular strip wood and cut a slot in the frame that it would slide in - as long as it is tight against the underside of the top surface it won't flap about - it is what I have for the Locolift supports on my challenge layout.

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi again,

 

I'll have a look in the next time I'm passing. Thanks again for the idea.

 

I've also just been reading some articles in the RM on minimum space modelling - 3'4"x1'10" to be precise; if I remember correctly they are by Paul Lunn. They suggest some interesting ides too.

 

Again, thanks for all the contributions folks.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Etched Pixels]

Another useful item on a quay are wagon turntables. You can then shunt wagons in front of the warehouse, and rope (aka pole from behind the backscene or similar) wagons in and out or add loads. Might be tight given your width though.