RMweb Gold A Murphy Posted October 5, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2010 I am a new n gauge modeller, who has recently downsized from 00 to n gauge. My main interest is the Western side of the Woodhead route in the early 1950s and to that end I have bought a small rake of Dapol Blood and custard Gresley coaches. However, as anyone who has been reading Coachman's exceptional series on LNER coaches or looked at the wonderful books by E M Johnson on Woodhead will be aware, many trans Pennine trains in the 50s had teak finished vehicles in them as late as 1955/56. So discovering tht Dapol had produced teak finish coaches not so long ago, I went looking for some. There have been 2 large batches for sale in the last three weeks on our favourite internet (!) auction site. On Sunday night, 2 teak brake composites sold for £57.00 and £54.99 respectively. A buffet went for £42 and full thirds went for £36 ish. A fortnight ago, there were a group sold by Rails on their e-bay site which again averaged £40 pounds. Does this not indicate that there is demand out there for these coaches? Do people on this forum think (or care) whether Dapol are aware of this? Is the policy of producing small limited batches of popular items actually going to backfire on manufacturers? I am certainly happily investigating the Ultima range now and will continue to do so because I can't afford £40/50 for an injection moulded plastic model railway coach and I have to say I find the "buy it now because they won't be around in three weeks time" schtick puts me off. I understand Dapol produced too many of their original maroon runs of these coaches. Is there not some sort of happy medium by which they could make models like this available on an ongoing basis? Like understanding their market? I would be very interested to know what others felt about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted October 5, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2010 This is an issue that has been debated alot over the past few years. Many people (myself included) don't particularly like it for a variety of reasons, but on a business level I can understand why it suits Dapol. They got it badly wrong with the first lot of Gresleys and some of the early class 73s, so better for their cash flow if they can completely sell out. Where I think they get it particularly wrong is as you say for new entrants to N who can't get stock. They also don't seem to be able/willing to react quickly enough to additional demand. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I agree it is frustrating. On the plus side Dapol have already produced a second batch of Teak Greleys after the first sold well so there is every chance that there will be a third batch. I believe the GWR Colletts are now on their third batch. Annoying as it is, at least there is hope for future releases. I think Dapol's open day is coming up soon so there may well be announcements then of their release plans for 2011. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I am certainly happily investigating the Ultima range now and will continue to do so because I can't afford £40/50 for an injection moulded plastic model railway coach and I have to say I find the "buy it now because they won't be around in three weeks time" schtick puts me off. If you're prepared to go down the kit route, then you'll probably be happy enough to go for a repaint in which case Hattons have stock of the NC031D Second in Maroon for £17.00 plus a bunch of the Carmine and Cream ones for £18 (nc059c, nc060c, nc061c - these will be the later batches with the adjusted bogie poistions (nearer to where they should be)) (http://www.hattons.co.uk/productList/category_list.asp?c=28) but at the very least you'll get a bodyshell, underframe etc to put the etches on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Well I don’t much care for the style of posting, but to answer the point I think Dapol know how to sell model railways far better than I do so I wouldn’t care to comment on their level of understanding of the market. Suffice to say I wouldn’t personally assess their level of understanding via a handful of eBay sales. Is the policy of producing small limited batches of popular items actually going to backfire on manufacturers? Nah, not really, I think they know what they’re doing. I am certainly happily investigating the Ultima range now and will continue to do so Great, all sorted then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Well as half of Ultima I'm happy you are.8-) To be fair to Dapol you have to remember the lead times on a product from China are very long indeed. So if they order too many they are stuck with a ton of excess they can't shift and which annoys their traders, if they don't order enough then they can't just phone for another 500 next month because it doesn't work like that. The teaks were very popular and barring the bogie thing (which was a trade off for the close couplers) justifiably so - they are some of the best RTR teak rendering I've ever seen. They will I am sure be back - at RRP (£20-25)- some point in the future. Alan (Some day I must figure out the differences on the rebuilt buffett and add that to the Dapol/Minitrix overlay sides) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 They might have over produced originally but even maroons now sell at a premium and so will any remaining Carmine and Cream's once you get to the last sellers. Try finding a maroon Collett coach now as well. I've got 10 of them in a mix of maroon and Carmine/Cream. Hoping that Farish produce some Thompson coaches next year to go with the B1 and eventual Pacifics that will come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 [i've got 10 of them in a mix of maroon and Carmine/Cream. Hoping that Farish produce some Thompson coaches next year to go with the B1 and eventual Pacifics that will come. Yes, Thompsons would be nice and would complement both the Dapol Gresleys and the soon to be released Mk1's as these appear to have frequently been mixed in trains. The thought of Gresley Pacifics to the standard of Farish's recent offerings has me reaching for my drool-cup! Given the old Poole derived variants' disappearance from Farish's lists, let's hope it happens (Best get saving!). Back to the Dapol Gresleys, im my view, especially the later Blood & Custard and varnished teak versions are truly superb, and now priced sub-£20 it is no wonder they have proved so popular and sold out so quickly. The only other possible option is to keep an eye open for a Minitrix teak or two, not sure how they go price-wise on ebay by comparison? Regards Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold A Murphy Posted October 5, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 5, 2010 Further to the above, I would like to apologise if I have given the impression that I am anti-Dapol or any other manufacturer and I agree they probbly know a whole lot more than I do about selling model railways. I am dead chuffed with the Gresley (b&c, latest issue) coaches I have bought, i think that for widely available, rtr models they are excellent . I am now going to have a go at doing something as good with Ultima parts (seriously great service, lovely looking etchings, wide range available), but I will probably come nowhere near the standard Dapol have achieved. I do feel like i would rather support Ultima though. However..... As of tonight, the blood and custard brake composite ("only 250 produced") has disappeared from Hattons website. At 4 o'clock this afternoon, there were 5. They have been available for less than 3 weeks. I believe that in 1 or 2 months time at least some of these will start appearing on e-bay for upwards of £40 a pop, not just because the Dapol B1 will be out, not just because the Farish B1 will be imminent, but because more (a few more?) people will try N gauge with the advent of better quality rtr kit generally. And the best quality, appropriate rolling stock will not be available .Which seems a shame to me. And for the (teak) brake composites that were advertised on e-bay there were 13 watchers for one, 12 for another and in total there were 8 coaches in the batch. I think there were 6 or 7 in the Rails group, and even allowing for 2 or 3 people "watching" each, I bet you that is most of a batch of 250 taken care of right there? 57 quid???? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I agree they probably know a whole lot more than I do about selling model railways. Cheers Whether that is actually beneficial for modellers is another thing. The duplication of B1s could be an issue with the policy of making more models if the number of pre orders are high. However, like Cl 66s one of each may be justified Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have a problem with Dapol locos, but these coaches are fantastic. The teak could be darker but they run well and close couple nicely. The maroon and choc/cream Collets are nice as well. Not so keen on their version of crimson/cream. Best bet with Dapol coaches is to get them upon release. I remember the GW livery Collets becoming rare for a while before they were re-released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Charon Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have a problem with Dapol locos, but these coaches are fantastic. The teak could be darker but they run well and close couple nicely. The maroon and choc/cream Collets are nice as well. Not so keen on their version of crimson/cream. Best bet with Dapol coaches is to get them upon release. I remember the GW livery Collets becoming rare for a while before they were re-released. I have to wonder why the blood and custard Colletts are so... pale, when the Gresleys are... so much better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have to wonder why the blood and custard Colletts are so... pale, when the Gresleys are... so much better. I think they improved their colours because the Gresleys are later models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have to wonder why the blood and custard Colletts are so... pale, when the Gresleys are... so much better. This is a tricky subject, what colour was carmine originally? In earlt BR days, paint still tended to be mixed locally so you got a fair amount of variation between vehicles on different regions. Colour film was still expensive and tended to be a bit unreliable in how it recorded reds. There is annecdotal evidence that the carmine coaches on the WR tended to be more orangish due to the WRs habit of using lots of layers of yellowing varnish. If you look at photos from the day you will often find variations in tone, even within a single rake of coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 I have to wonder why the blood and custard Colletts are so... pale, when the Gresleys are... so much better. Photographic evidence from the time and paint evidence is always a bit iffy but I've been told by several people some of whom certainly should know their stuff that the custard varied between regions. It's entirely possible that both are correct and well researched. For the Gresley coaches btw another option is to buy maroon ones and repaint them. The glazing comes out (with care) and you can then paint them in Precision Paints teak colours (the base coat and dry brush the other over in the direction of the grain). If you then fill in the top bits and the like in the teak top coat the match with the Dapol Gresley teaks is very close indeed. You may also btw find the odd Gresley teak in model shops that don't have big internet sites. At the same time they were going for £40 on ebay they were still going for RRP in less well known model shops ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Good advice that. I found some very rare stuff in Richard's Railways near me in North Somerset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 As I suspected, Dapol are doing a further batch of Gresleys in both C&C and Teak liveries for 2011. Details can be found below on page 10. http://www.ness-st.co.uk/Dapol/Dapol-catalogue-2011-N-section.pdf Given the usual rules of supply and demand, I suggest people who are interested get orders in promptly with their retailer of choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 It's quite interesting to see the value of these items fluctuate on Ebay. The choc/cream Collets were going for ridiculous money at one point until they were re-released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 If you're prepared to go down the kit route, then you'll probably be happy enough to go for a repaint in which case Hattons have stock of the NC031D Second in Maroon for £17.00 plus a bunch of the Carmine and Cream ones for £18 (nc059c, nc060c, nc061c - these will be the later batches with the adjusted bogie poistions (nearer to where they should be)) (http://www.hattons.co.uk/productList/category_list.asp?c=28) but at the very least you'll get a bodyshell, underframe etc to put the etches on. A bit late to add my bit, but by the mid-1950s any teak coaches would have been turned to a much darker shade than the Dapol ones, and so a repaint would produce something more realistic anyway. Many had no lining, and a quick repaint in a muddy brown produces something like the real thing. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Crepello Posted August 22, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 22, 2015 Pleased to see the re-introduction of these in maroon--see Hatton's site. I think we can safely assume they have the ''correct'' bogie position, unlike the original maroon ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Crepello Posted September 12, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2015 Dapol have confirmed they are ''corrected'' on Facebook. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Dapol have confirmed they are ''corrected'' on Facebook. Is that "corrected" as in moved to the right position, or "corrected" as in moved a bit closer to the right position, as I think was their plan at one point. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Crepello Posted September 13, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 13, 2015 Hi Chris I take it to mean the modified position which is why I put it in inverted commas. Don't let that put you off though as they're great coaches, especially when fitted with NEMCOUPS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Higgs Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Hi Chris I take it to mean the modified position which is why I put it in inverted commas. Don't let that put you off though as they're great coaches, especially when fitted with NEMCOUPS. I have a whole bunch (about 30) of the older ones, bought at a tenner each when they were sold off. Given I would still want to modify the bogie spacing on the newer ones, I shall stick with those. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 My thirty-odd Gresleys are a mixture of early Dapol, early Dapol with the bogies "corrected" by swapping with those of scrap Blood & Custard, and Minitrix (and a Dapol on a Minitrix frame). One of the greater critics of the "pigeon toed" Gresleys was looking at a train wending its slow (scale 20mph as all trains on the layout) way across Hawthorn Dene. Said train had my usual mix of Gresleys and BR Mark 1s but the first coach was a repainted Minitrix teak.. "I see you've altered all your Gresleys" was the comment. I didn't tell him the three Dapols behind the Minitrix were "pigeon toed". However I haven't bothered "correcting" any more Gresleys since. I recently sold a few of my maroon Gresleys to make a little space in the spare coaches box. The only way I could be sure I had unmodified ones was by a trial-and-error program of holding them together wheel-to-wheel in pairs. Les The advantage ALL Dapol Gresleys have is that with having a correctly designed close-coupling method they track each other correctly on curves- ie body tracks body. The restricting method on Farish Mark 1s means they track bogie to bogie, meaning they often uncouple from other types of stock (and each other) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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