Early Risers.

[pH]

12 hours ago, TheQ said:

The top surface ripples are caused by wind on the water, then the loch is tidal so except for a few minutes every 6 hours 15 minutes ish, the water is flowing in or out. That will flow over the rocky bottom of the loch, which produces standing waves , that is the waves don't move but the water level rises and lowers as you go over them . Therefore in some places the wind hits the peaks of the water and not the valleys leaving a pattern on the water..

 

Thanks for the reply. I have questions/comments about some of what you’ve written. The depth (average/deepest?) of the loch is given as 30 metres. Would rocks at that depth have an effect on the surface of the water? If the effect is, in part, caused by the tide passing over rocks on the bottom of the loch, would the patterns disappear at periods of slack water? And would they disappear on windless days? Also, I have seen these (or similar) patterns on non-tidal freshwater lakes, where there is no water movement other than that due to inflow and outflow streams. 
 

The most interesting theory I’ve read is that they are due to variations in temperature/salinity (salt water)/dissolved substances (salt or fresh) of areas of the water surface reflecting or diffracting the light to different extents. 
 

And what are these patterns called? If I knew that, searching for an explanation might be easier. I think I’ve seen ‘moire’ suggested. In which case, another explanation is possible i.e. different ripple patterns cancelling out in places.

[polybear]

Bear's Funny of the Day......

 

[Coombe Barton]

... as it’s the first day of meteorological summer, a weather forecast …

https://johncolby.wordpress.com/2022/06/01/cases-slightly-rising/

[TheQ]

28 minutes ago, pH said:

Thanks for the reply. I have questions/comments about some of what you’ve written. The depth (average/deepest?) of the loch is given as 30 metres. Would rocks at that depth have an effect on the surface of the water? If the effect is, in part, caused by the tide passing over rocks on the bottom of the loch, would the patterns disappear at periods of slack water? And would they disappear on windless days? Also, I have seen these (or similar) patterns on non-tidal freshwater lakes, where there is no water movement other than that due to inflow and outflow streams. 
 

The most interesting theory I’ve read is that they are due to variations in temperature/salinity (salt water)/dissolved substances (salt or fresh) of areas of the water surface reflecting or diffracting the light to different extents. 
 

And what are these patterns called? If I knew that, searching for an explanation might be easier. I think I’ve seen ‘moire’ suggested. In which case, another explanation is possible i.e. different ripple patterns cancelling out in places.

The depth of the pentland firth, varies from 20M to 96M the charts are marked "rough water even in calm weather". That is purely the effect of the tides..

 

Salt water / fresh water mixing does produce different refracting effects.

On a absolutely windless day at slack tide, waters are renowned for going glassy smooth.

 

 

 

[Ozexpatriate]

13 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

... software companies like Microsoft and Adobe are pushing subscription services which means you don’t actually own the software and have to pay a monthly fee to keep it activated on your computer

I can assure you that without this business model they would go out of business - either directly, or indirectly through activist investors urging drastic changes to provide growth in their share price.

 

This sort of thing is widespread in the software industry. It has been extended to software that is part of what people think of as a 'hardware' product - including things like agricultural equipment (like tractors), that these days are essentially autonomous vehicles. More engineering goes into the software and electronics than the mechanical bits and the amount of software updating requires a constant stream of income to keep the software developers employed.

 

I expect in the not too distant future automobiles will come with a software subscription fee - which might be included in some sort of maintenance program.

 

Having spent most of my career in companies selling sophisticated software I'll spare you the lecture, but the origins are related to business models for things like mainframe computers and Xerox machines that go back at least to the 1960s where people were required to pay recurring "support" contracts along with the one time capital expense of the equipment.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Ozexpatriate

[Tony_S]

46 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

 

I expect in the not too distant future automobiles will come with a software subscription fee - which might be included in some sort of maintenance program.

The 3 year fee I pay to Land Rover for various “features” that download to the car.already seems like that. 

[Ozexpatriate]

2 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

The 3 year fee I pay to Land Rover for various “features” that download to the car.already seems like that. 

Tony, yes, exactly. I think just about every new car will have something like that before long.

 

And it won't be just another way 'rip off' consumers. It will fund software developers who keep working on enhancements (and bug fixes).

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

Bear's Funny of the Day......

 

 

Yesterday our Queens representative, the Governor General swore a minister  into  our newly created ministerial position of Minister For The Republic, who  has the job description of seeing us transition away from the monarchy  sometime during a potential second term of the Albanese Labor  government, assuming they get reelected and/or there isn't an annual leadership spill.

 

The time frame relies on the delicately phrased strategy that the  Queen will be shuffling off her mortal coil around that time, and relies on getting  everything sorted before King Charles and Queen Camilla get the chance to book a tour down here to stroke the koalas and get sucked up to by Phillip Benwell MBE and his mates in the "whatever  happened to the  1950s!?" Constitutional Monarchy League.

 

 

 

[simontaylor484]

6 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Neither end of the pantomime horse.  More a case of "dress like a king" which is code for get the kilt and all out.  I do wear it on rare occasions but it's not terribly comfortable and the full kit is also very hot.  No wonder the Scots allegedly wear nowt beneath!  

You could always go as Elvis 

 

Although when I first read this post o did immediately think of the scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.  

 

"How can you tell he is the King"

"HE is the only one not covered in sh1t"

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I can assure you that without this business model they would go out of business - either directly, or indirectly through activist investors urging drastic changes to provide growth in their share price.

 

This sort of thing is widespread in the software industry. It has been extended to software that is part of what people think of as a 'hardware' product - including things like agricultural equipment (like tractors), that these days are essentially autonomous vehicles. More engineering goes into the software and electronics than the mechanical bits and the amount of software updating requires a constant stream of income to keep the software developers employed.

 

I expect in the not too distant future automobiles will come with a software subscription fee - which might be included in some sort of maintenance program.

 

Having spent most of my career in companies selling sophisticated software I'll spare you the lecture, but the origins are related to business models for things like mainframe computers and Xerox machines that go back at least to the 1960s where people were required to pay recurring "support" contracts along with the one time capital expense of the equipment.

 

 Gotta say, I use my laptop very extensively for 3D modelling, photogrammetry, laser cutting, graphic manipulation  as well as a work tool when I work from home and I have not had to buy  a single license for any bit of software (except see below).

 

Everything I want to do has a freeware/open source  version which far from being some poor underperforming sad thing written by a bloke in a shed matches the commercial products in every way. From Libreware for Office duties, through Blender for 3D modelling, Inkscape for graphics work, Gimp for photo editing, and the fully functional free versions of Sketchup and 3Dzephyr photogrammetry application.

 

They are all legally free to use - and in the case of some such as Blender and Inkscape, even for commercial work.

Updates are often rolled out at a much faster rate than commercial equivalents, for instance Blender has had 3 stepped releases  from 2.9 to 3.1 in about 12 months, all updates contain major enhancements, not just fiddling with the GUI. Just about all of them export/import all the standard file formats so you can use them in any other software, send them to 3D printers and so on, just like the commercial rivals. 

 

In the case of Blender, its chief commercial rival,  3ds Max,  has a subscription rate of US$300 a month, which is beyond crazy for the majority of 3D modellers who are freelance small artists who often give their work away free on 3D marketplaces, or charge a couple of dollars. Blender is a blessing for the 3D world. 

 

 

(I HAVE bought a license for the paid version of 3Dzephyr because I do plan to make a token amount of money from that but I haven't used the paid version, everything I do is still with the free one.)

 

Actually, I just remembered that  I do pay a subscription for my VPN and antivirus- but thats all. 

[Ozexpatriate]

2 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Everything I want to do has a freeware/open source  version which far from being some poor underperforming sad thing written by a bloke in a shed matches the commercial products in every way.

At the end of the day, freeware/open source is often* written by a bloke in a shed / his mother's basement / etc.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

HP and Apple both celebrate being created in a garage after all.

 

* There are occasions where it is donated to the public domain by for-profit software companies

 

The great leveler of software is that there are *almost* zero manufacturing overheads (particularly since downloading became feasible) and well-written code written by a passionate individual pouring himself or herself into their work can be competitive with the product of paid working stiffs.

 

The real costs are in maintaining the code (QA*, bug fixes, re-platforming, and these days, improved cyber-attack resilience, etc). 

 

* The 90/10 curve applies. 10% of the effort gets you a 90% solution - which is certainly 'good enough' for non-critical, (no liability) home use. 90% of the effort is in the costs unrelated to the basic code, like QA etc.

 

Software as a business requires income to stay in business. It is expensive engineering work.

 

I know of companies that are willing to pay for (open source) Linux distributions that are professionally supported - so they can manage potential issues with a provider who is on the hook to fix them.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Ozexpatriate

[PupCam]

 

5 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

And it won't be just another way 'rip off' consumers. It will fund software developers who keep working on enhancements (and bug fixes).

 

Personally, I think that's a just matter of opinion and not a fact.    In my, different and probably cynical, opinion it is precisely a means of ripping off customers!

 

Having spent my 45 year career in a "high-tech, highly complex, systems industry" and the last 25 years or more specifically in Systems and Software I do have at least  a modest grasp of how these things hang together.      A good many enhancements and "Bells and Whistles" on modern products are not necessary or actually desirable BUT because of the way modern electronic products are implemented, effectively a "Lego block" approach of integrating sensors, transducers, actuators and processors they are there by default.  It is then the  easiest thing in the world to enable or disable those Bs & Ws with in essence a single (binary) bit for each in a configuration register lurking somewhere.       What does each of those bits sorry, bells or whistle cost on a modern vehicle these days I wonder?   How come you can re-map your engine (i.e. just update the ECU configuration data) and get another 5% power out of it?     How can you get that dirty diesel to pass the emission tests?  Oh sorry, that last one was for a different rip-off 🤣.

 

And as to desirability or necessity of those Bs & Ws let's take a look at a couple of simple examples;

 

The Modern Washing Machine - How many programmes and different modes does it typically have?   Shall we say 20 ish?     And how many do 99% of the owners use?   I'll wager 2;  A whites wash and a coloured wash.

 

The Modern Microwave Cooker - How many programmes and different modes does it typically have?   Shall we say 10 ish?    And how many do 99% of the owners use?   Again I'll wager 2; Full Power and Defrost.

 

In the main the primary benefit of all those other programmes modes etc is that it enables the manufacturers to inflate the list of "Features" on the glossy brochure or the website and thus provide a handy means of incrementing the price of each model to help part the gullible from their cash.

 

And as for paying for bug fixes, if it had been properly implemented in the first place they wouldn't be there would they?

 

Alan

 

[PhilJ W]

Evening all from Estuary-Land. Went to the MRC this evening, not that many members there, most were watching football. Last week I filled up the car with petrol, it was 169.9 per litre. By the weekend it had risen to 171.9 a litre, today its 173.9 a litre!

[pH]

3 hours ago, PupCam said:

And as for paying for bug fixes, if it had been properly implemented in the first place they wouldn't be there would they?

Things may have improved in recent years since I retired (those two concepts are not related!), but it used to be said that one in every twelve (or maybe ten?) lines of code was incorrect. That did not mean that that line would fail every time it was executed. What it did mean was that there was a possible combination of circumstances that the program could legitimately encounter that would cause that line not to do correctly what it was intended to do.

 

When you’re dealing with processes involving tens or even hundreds of thousands of lines of code, that meant there are thousands of potential bugs lurking. And as each bug is uncovered  by a failure and corrected, it means that the remaining ones are ever more obscure, and would need ever rarer combinations of circumstances to trigger them. I maintain that it is impossible to produce 100% bug-free code - that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t test to the best of your ability.

 

The ‘one line in twelve in error’ estimate also means that if a fix requires twelve or more statements to be added or changed, then it is likely that another, new bug has been introduced. Again, the effect may not be in the new or altered lines (it better not be!), but the changes made may affect processing in another part of the overall system. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by pH
Missing words - I was in a hurry when I originally posted.

[Tony_S]

47 minutes ago, PupCam said:

I'll wager 2;  A whites wash and a coloured wash.

 

Here it would be the cottons wash with various spin speed and temperature adjustments, the wool wash, and my favourite the express wash which is 20 minutes. If I am washing outdoor clothing that needs waterproofing the outdoor programme is useful. It was possible to add extra programmes to the machine but we didn’t feel we needed a soft toy or Lego brick programme.   

[PeterBB]

42 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Evening all from Estuary-Land. Went to the MRC this evening, not that many members there, most were watching football. Last week I filled up the car with petrol, it was 169.9 per litre. By the weekend it had risen to 171.9 a litre, today its 173.9 a litre!

That's cheap compared to this area.

 

[Tony_S]

We would have been going to Uxbridge tomorrow but due to coughing and sneezing still, we will remain at home. It would have been nice as Aditi’s Uxbridge relatives are good company. Their daughter has just graduated from university with a geography degree, which Aditi approves of! Aditi’s cousin is an accountant but his business is sorting things out for Indian manufacturing companies exporting stuff to the UK.  His wife works for a Swiss bank and advises rich people how to become richer. She is however very nice! This event was arranged to give Aditi’s Mum a nice day out but MiL told me this morning she wasn’t bothered about going. I am sure she will enjoy it when she gets there. 

[PhilJ W]

News this evening, an aviation fuel tanker caught light at Sadlers Farm roundabout this evening.

[PhilJ W]

Goodnight all.

[TheSignalEngineer]

20 hours ago, Ozexpatriate said:

I don't know. Capillary wave is a fancy name for ripples - a Cat's paw in the nautical word for wind on the water - which might be what you are looking for.

 

A seiche is a standing wave.

 

My guess would be related to wind and refraction around the edges of the loch.

Our son used to do dinghy sailing at Torside on the Longdendale reservoirs. Whenever we went past on the trail to Woodhead he used to point out the various wave patterns in the water that he had learned from the old hands there. One was caused by a westerly wind hitting Toside dam which stands about 26 metres high. It seems that the updraught leads to a pressure difference above the water close to the dam. Other strange wind and wave patterns are caused by the angles at which the wind hits the sides of the valley and is deflected, for instance it's possible to be propelled along by a northwesterly and suddenly be hit by a southwesterly gust

[Tony_S]

3 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

News this evening, an aviation fuel tanker caught light at Sadlers Farm roundabout this evening.

We saw the black smoke and wondered what it was. We were sitting in the garden having a cup of tea. Didn’t hear any sirens.  

[TheSignalEngineer]

Today was officially the start of summer according to the weather man. 

At least we had uninterrupted cricket, albeit with the odd spot of rain, and at times it was quite warm in the sun.

Sammy's 40-over match today was a better result. They bowled out the opposition for 144 in 39 overs and then scored the runs with 17 overs and 3 wickets to spare. It would have been better if some of the youngsters hadn't got overenthusiastic and thrown away 3 wickets getting the last 4 runs.

Tomorrow he has two 20-over games so could be a trip over to see one or both.

[andyram]

Evening all and generic best wishes are offered with specific supportive thoughts to @Gwiwer. I lost my closest University friend a few 

years ago to a similar operation. Sadly my headteacher at the time (yes that one!) would not give me time off to attend the funeral so respects had to paid the following day by viewing the collection of flowers.

 

I am pleased to report that Amber is much better. After a good night’s sleep, with no further sickness, she felt refreshed and well enough to return to the camp this morning.

 

The day has been fairly successful with a meeting attended and an online class taught all before 11am. Assignments were marked by lunch and the afternoon was spent visiting my parents who are covering the shop for me tomorrow. 
 

The EBay shop issue appears to have been solved with many items visible by mid-morning. It appears it was nothing more sinister than delays in the EBay system. The shop even brought in its first sales this morning which was unexpected considering I had not managed to get much listed.

 

This afternoon brought about a pleasant surprise with the discovery of a nesting blackbird, complete with hatched chicks in the branches of the buddlea in the corner of our garden. Our cats are now confined to the house! I had better tread carefully during tomorrow’s planned gardening activity.

 

Take care.

 

Andy

[BSW01]

Good evening everyone 

 

Today lots more re-organising has been done and my stock is now a much more orderly. There’s even a bit more room is some of the boxes too! 

 

I’d just sat down on the sofa this afternoon, when the door went. We have both a door bell and door knocker, but the delivery person still chose to actually knock on the door! Anyway, the package that was due to arrive on Friday, was handed over to me by a very pleasant young lady. So, once back inside, I checked the items against order, everything was present, so I took them to the cellar. I’ll take the paints to the workshop and pack away the other bits will be put away on Friday. 

[BSW01]

Goodnight all