Early Risers.

[grandadbob]

Some progress has been made and Kate phoned back almost as promised but about half an hour late with many apologies. The mobile phone change/billing problem has now been sorted and to my satisfaction.  (ie with a discount) She then put me in touch with the broadband section and things slowed down somewhat.  Two guys and an hour and a half later I have now been given a date in June for the big change.  Who knows? It might even happen.  What has actually happened and it may have something to do with the extreme displeasure emanating from yours truly  😠 is that I've been given a further discount on the new services.  If they carry on at this rate then I still won't get a new service and with all the discounts  won't have to pay for anything....errm something not quite right about that. 🤪🙃😂

Think I'll go and lie down in a darkened room...after my muggatea and jam tart.

[Gwiwer]

5 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

IIRC the Leeds Atlanteans had MCW Orion bodies. Rather aptly described as 'heaps of shivering tin'. My grandparents lived in Hastings and I remember when the trolleybuses were replaced by the first Leyland Atlanteans in 1959. They had Park Royal bodies though that didn't try to shake themselves to pieces.

The build quality of British bus bodies has long been the source of complaint among operators and the public at large.  Some rattle alarmingly; some don't.  But why?  

 

The Hastings buses referred to would have been those bodied by Weymann or Park Royal (the operator, Maidstone & District, had batches from both) which I recall were solid and largely rattle-free products.  Weymann was later sold to the Metropolitan-Cammell business and were built under the "Metro-Cammell-Weymann" or MCW brand.  These rattled.  

 

One conclusion might be that the change of factory from Surrey to the West Midlands was the cause.  Surely not of itself though.  The assembly and finishing at MCW might have been different to that which Weymann had been accustomed to however.  Park Royal bodies were largely rattle-free at that time but on later AN68-series Atlanteans, as opposed to the earlier PDR-series models, their ubiquitous body design which adorned vast numbers of buses started to rattle after just a few miles in service.  

 

Portsmouth, which still had some cobbled streets in the 1960s, also operated early Atlanteans with MCW bodies.  These, as I recall, did not rattle despite operating over the cobbles.  Neither did their earlier PD2 rear-entrance half-cab MCW-bodied buses.  

 

I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between batch build quality, customer specification, operator maintenance and driving technique.  Look after the chassis and suspension and the body will stay in good condition.  Do nothing beyond lubrication and parts will wear causing vibration which is passed up through the body and translates into every joint loosening fractionally.  And rattling.  

 

And driving technique.  Leave the bus in gear when stationary (Atlanteans were semi-automatic with a mini-stick shift) and the engine pulling against the brakes would send vibration throughout the vehicle.  Some operators reprimanded drivers for this momentary laziness; others allowed it to pass as normal driving technique.  

 

[DaveF]

As I planned I walked down to the beach after posting here this morning, expecting to back home in time for coffee.  3 1/2 hours later I got back home, having walked nearly 4 miles in total.  The Battery display was interesting, most of the volunteers knew what they were talking about.  I always think it is about as realistic as preserved railways are compared to the real thing.  This year it was not billed as being set in any particular period.

 

I spent quite a long time talking to people who collect items relating to SOE (Special Operations Executive).  They had a very nice telescope which is about 2" long, lots of old maps and identity documents.  It was interesting to see the knives, some relating to SOE operations ranging from various daggers, a tiny hacksaw, along with a very neat knife inside a fountain pen and another one inside a pipe.  They would have been very useful when standing next to someone.  The big torch which had a small battery, the rest of the casing being filled with plastic explosive was interesting too.  Apparently you prime it by pressing it on and off to show it works, then you hand it to the person who is going to examine a piece of equipment, they switch it on and there is an explosion.   The idea was that you organised a power outage where you worked and handed the big torch to an engineer who came to sort it out, then you left quickly.

 

As expected there were a number of make believe Germans and Americans all with Geordie or Scottish accents, along with the Britsh forces reenactors.  There were lots of firearms and knives on display but there was ample security as there were two policeman walking round looking at the displays.

 

There was more to see than in past years, one room was done out as a 1940s house lounge/kitchen, both WW1 and WW2 observation posts, searchlight building and magazine for the 6" guns. There was a replica nuclear war era underground monitoring post as would have been used by the Royal Observer Corps.  The real one was was just across the road and was demolished when it was no longer needed.

 

Some photos - more to follow a bit later.

 

Jeep

 

Jeep by the Magazine building

 

By the Magazine building

 

German guns

 

An assortment of British weapons

 

Police old and new along with a very young soldier.

 

David

Edited May 18 by DaveF
typos

[PhilJ W]

Afternoon all from Estuary-Land. The knees are slowly recovering after yesterdays shopping trip. I have done nothing today except watch TV, if that makes me a bone idle old git thats what I am.

[Coombe Barton]

... AI only exists because of electricity and devices – maybe if we brought back handwriting on paper …?? ...

https://johncolby.wordpress.com/2024/05/18/covid-and-hospital-northern-ireland-enquiry-domestics/

[polybear]

10 minutes ago, Coombe Barton said:

... AI only exists because of electricity and devices – maybe if we brought back handwriting on paper …?? ...

https://johncolby.wordpress.com/2024/05/18/covid-and-hospital-northern-ireland-enquiry-domestics/

A College Engineering Tutor buddy says other Tutors at the College somehow use AI to mark assessments - cut n’ paste n’ all that.

[pH]

53 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

…

And driving technique.  Leave the bus in gear when stationary (Atlanteans were semi-automatic with a mini-stick shift) and the engine pulling against the brakes would send vibration throughout the vehicle.  Some operators reprimanded drivers for this momentary laziness; others allowed it to pass as normal driving technique.  

 

That is absolutely normal driving technique with an automatic car - start it in ‘P’ark, move it into ‘D’rive at the start of a journey, put it back into ‘P’ark at the end of the journey and switch off.

 

Why is that not appropriate for a semi-automatic bus? (Genuine question.)

[AndyID]

15 minutes ago, pH said:

That is absolutely normal driving technique with an automatic car - start it in ‘P’ark, move it into ‘D’rive at the start of a journey, put it back into ‘P’ark at the end of the journey and switch off.

 

Why is that not appropriate for a semi-automatic bus? (Genuine question.)

 

I think it's just because the engine is working harder in drive than it is in neutral. In drive the engine is still driving the torque converter and trying to propel the vehicle which is why it creeps as soon as you release the brake. The work being done by the engine is wasted as it's just heating the fluid in the torque converter when the brakes prevent motion.

 

In theory you'll save a little fuel if you pop it into neutral when stopped but you'll save more if you stop the engine. I do that if I think I'm going to be stopped for a while.

[DaveF]

More on the Battery event.

 

While I was there the battleground was being set up with small explosive charges placed on the grass and covered with mounds of soil to give a good effect when they are detonated.  Of course there was lots of security - the van and the area used was behind a fenced off area - a single piece of cord strung along metal spikes - on the side next to the footpath, nothing on the rest of the Links.

 

The whole thing was very enjoyable but was not much like recollections of family members who went through one or both wars who told me of some of their experiences.  Not even like my childhood memories of the bomb shelters by the school playground and playing on bomb sites.  More seriously not like the threat of war when we were told about the "4 minute warning and what to do" when I was at school.  

 

Morris 8

 

Portable pill box

 

Cheerful reenactors

 

Inside the Battery control room

 

Morris Minor Traveller

 

Weapons etc

 

Looking south from the searchlight buildings (behind me) to the main buildings in the distance (where the main display is situated) with sea fret coming in from the sea.  The building in the centre is lifeguards, toilets etc and is modern.

 

David

Edited May 18 by DaveF

[Grizz]

13 minutes ago, DaveF said:

More on the Battery event.

 

Inside the Battery control room

 

Erm…is it just me or has someone lent the show ‘their very personal foldawayable female mannequin ’……??????

Edited May 18 by Grizz

[polybear]

37 minutes ago, pH said:

That is absolutely normal driving technique with an automatic car - start it in ‘P’ark, move it into ‘D’rive at the start of a journey, put it back into ‘P’ark at the end of the journey and switch off.

 

Why is that not appropriate for a semi-automatic bus? (Genuine question.)

I’m no expert on the weird & wonderful ways such transmissions work but I very much suspect it may cause unnecessary wear.

[Ozexpatriate]

10 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

... very low beds (or very high futons on a dias if you will

Very like a Western "futon". Thank you for the clarification. That helps.

 

I had a western futon that folded into a 'sofa' for day use. The frame was much worn by my youngest who was a big lad, but it persists. I did replace the mattress.

[pH]

14 minutes ago, AndyID said:

In theory you'll save a little fuel if you pop it into neutral when stopped but you'll save more if you stop the engine. I do that if I think I'm going to be stopped for a while.

Yes, if there’s a holdup which isn’t going to clear for a while, I’ll switch off (but with a little nagging thought about possible difficulty in restarting a hot engine). But I won’t switch off in regular driving, even at a specific intersection where a cycle of the lights takes 2 minutes.

About shutting off to save fuel - a Canadian municipality (Thunder Bay, I think) instructed their bus drivers to switch off if they were going to be stationary for any significant time. The order was rescinded when the frequency and cost of replacing starter motors climbed steeply.

[AndyID]

51 minutes ago, polybear said:

I’m no expert on the weird & wonderful ways such transmissions work but I very much suspect it may cause unnecessary wear.

 

Not really. Just unnecessary work done by churning and therefore heating the fluid in the torque converter. At low rotational speed torque converters are very inefficient so they slip without transmitting a lot of torque so there s not a lot of load on the engine. But if if you do the same thing with a manual transmission by riding the clutch you will wear-out the clutch plate fairly quickly.

[DaveF]

1 hour ago, Grizz said:

Erm…is it just me or has someone lent the show ‘their very personal foldawayable female mannequin ’……??????

 

The 2 men are waxworks too.  In fact most of the rooms had such figures as well as the volunteers who were doing the explaining.

 

David

[Coombe Barton]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

A College Engineering Tutor buddy says other Tutors at the College somehow use AI to mark assessments - cut n’ paste n’ all that.

I will not. Probably takes me a lot more time.

[polybear]

1 hour ago, pH said:

Yes, if there’s a holdup which isn’t going to clear for a while, I’ll switch off (but with a little nagging thought about possible difficulty in restarting a hot engine). But I won’t switch off in regular driving, even at a specific intersection where a cycle of the lights takes 2 minutes.

About shutting off to save fuel - a Canadian municipality (Thunder Bay, I think) instructed their bus drivers to switch off if they were going to be stationary for any significant time. The order was rescinded when the frequency and cost of replacing starter motors climbed steeply.

Mickey the MG has stop/start but I always disable it for the same reason - plus you never know when (if?) the starter will pack up; it’s bound to be at the worst possible time.

[pH]

9 minutes ago, polybear said:

Mickey the MG has stop/start but I always disable it for the same reason - plus you never know when (if?) the starter will pack up; it’s bound to be at the worst possible time.

A couple of the cars I’ve hired in the UK had that feature (bug?). I read the manual to find out how to disable it before driving off the rental lot.

[Ozexpatriate]

12 hours ago, Grizz said:

At the moment it smells very strongly of the oil used to keep it rust free. 

You might want to store it on something like a wooden "tee". (A post with a cross member - approximating shoulders.) This should keep it from getting tangled, with air circulating. It will be too heavy for the average closet/wardrobe rod and coat hanger.  If you leave it folded in a box it will rust for sure with any humidity present.

[Ozexpatriate]

Why is the cucumber sandwich on this list?  Who eats those things? Disgusting. (I'm not sure my Lab would eat them! Just kidding, of course it would, but ...)

 

CNN: 24 of the world’s best sandwiches

 

You'll be happy to know the chip butty makes the list.

 

No hot dogs or burgers on the list. And yes, they are sandwiches.

 

Edited May 18 by Ozexpatriate

[New Haven Neil]

Memories of those older Atlanteans is that the torque converters were very 'tight' and imposed considerable load on the engine at tickover - far more than one would experience with an automatic car.  The result was engine revs pulled down to a lower than ideal tickover and working noticeably against he brakes, vibrating quite badly as a result.

[AndyID]

3 minutes ago, New Haven Neil said:

Memories of those older Atlanteans is that the torque converters were very 'tight' and imposed considerable load on the engine at tickover - far more than one would experience with an automatic car.  The result was engine revs pulled down to a lower than ideal tickover and working noticeably against he brakes, vibrating quite badly as a result.

 

That would do it! It's not easy to stall a diesel but they do get very "lumpy" at lower speeds. Come to think of it the torque converter for a bus must be enormous compared to those used in cars and they have to operate over a much narrower speed range.

[polybear]

43 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

You might want to store it on something like a wooden "tee". (A post with a cross member - approximating shoulders.) This should keep it from getting tangled, with air circulating. It will be too heavy for the average closet/wardrobe rod and coat hanger.  If you leave it folded in a box it will rust for sure with any humidity present.

Anyone sitting on a seat after Grizz has been there won’t be happy if they end up with oil stains on their posh frock/jeans/whatever

 

12 minutes ago, Ozexpatriate said:

Why is the cucumber sandwich on this list?  Who eats those things? Disgusting. (I'm not sure my Lab would eat them! Just kidding, of course it would, but ...)

 

CNN: 24 of the world’s best sandwiches

 

You'll be happy to know the chip butty makes the list.

 

No hot dogs or burgers on the list. And yes, they are sandwiches.

 

No Marmite Sarnie

No Jam Sarnie

No Crisp Sarnie

 

The list is Cobblers.

[New Haven Neil]

4 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

That would do it! It's not easy to stall a diesel but they do get very "lumpy" at lower speeds. Come to think of it the torque converter for a bus must be enormous compared to those used in cars and they have to operate over a much narrower speed range.

 

Yes, spot on Andy.  I drive an automatic diesel car but the converter isn't tight like that, but it has a much greater operating range.  It's also not a crappy old Leyland engine....diesels have come a long way.

[Ozexpatriate]

7 minutes ago, polybear said:

No Marmite Sarnie

No Jam Sarnie

No Crisp Sarnie

Nor do they include the ultimate American sandwich for children, the PB&J (or for little Ozzie nippers, fairy bread). I think the list is intended for adults. 😉

 

There are a lot of sandwiches that are really good - Bánh mì, Cubano, Reuben, Muffuletta, Po' Boy, Lobster Roll, etc.

 

Edited May 18 by Ozexpatriate